there would have to be some to wash away
I'm sure that's all his fault? I don't care what he does if he comes here as long as he wins. He is slightly sketchy I would admit. However, he is a proven winner in an almost impossible conference and he recruits nationally which is highly important if we EVER want to be on Ohio States level again.
but UM certainly will not win at all costs. That's not a bad thing.
i just posted this on the other thread but strongly feel it pertinent and worth saying again. (deep breath) neg me to bolivia if necessary.
i want to win, and bad -- but not at all costs.
guys, i come from the health profession, and it's a perfect translation or metaphor here. i have met many a surgeon who was awesome with his hands but a complete asshole. i was also fortunate to work with some of the best docs in the world who also kept it classy. one thing i've learned is no matter how good dr. hotshot j. asshole is, there's always someone as good or better who can do it and do it with the right attitude.
i see this as what makes a "michigan man." not that you come from bo, mo, or llo. this coaching tree stuff is bullshit. yes, we must win, we are michigan, but it's how we win that sets us apart.
i wasnt in favor of keeping RR but the guy strived to do it the right way. the mere fact that we are even discussing the ethics of LM isn't indicative of moving in the right direction. he's a spectacular coach, but if he can't play by the ground rules DB sets, then move on down our list to someone who can.
Football is a game; kids' lives are not.
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
if RR detractors want to hold him responsible for 20+ extra minutes of stretching, then I think Les can certainly be held accountable for screwing student athletes. He is most certainly guilty of lying about it....you just watched the video, not to mention trying to slam the kid by indicating that he quit or wasn't putting in the effort. that's ookay with you, as long as you get more W's. Is that what M has become?
Let's be clear about this, we do not aspire to be on Ohio State's level, we aspire to be better than that. Sure we want to beat them, but let's not stoop to conquer.
Chris Garrett left LSU because he was fat and lazy. LSU needed a quarterback desperately. There is no way Miles would have run him off without reason.
So Garrett transfers to a small school, Northwestern State. And how does he do?http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=506840 He played in two games. In one game he went 1 for 6 for 7 yards and in the other was 5 of 7 for 35 yards.
Then he quit that school and transferred to Ole Miss.
College freshmen tend to struggle the first year away from home. You're calling an 18 year old student athlete fat and lazy during his first real time at home. By the way, do you think there is a minor chance that this was maybe in his head during the second stint? If you don't find fault in what Miles did, then your complete ignorance of reality terrifies me.
Garret gained tons of weight and transferred to Northwestern State and couldn't even start there.
You really think Miles would run off a QB for no reason when LSU only had 2 scholarship players at QB, neither of them very good?
what Saban does is okay then?
the kid was a freshman and had the rug pulled out from under him.
My sources tell me Gruden will be the next head coach of the Michigan Wolverines.
if one of the main problems with Rich Rod was a perception of character issues - how in the heck is Les Miles going to be viewed in the bright light of day, post Harbaugh let down. I don't think Les Miles will meet DB's public image criteria.
I can't understand how anyone who didn't like RR for ethical reasons could possibly even consider supporting Miles.
Hypocrisy. RR wasn't a "Michigan Man" but Les is. Whatever the hell that really even means anymore.
There's a story in SportsbyBrooks about a Michigan colored plane owned by a rich alum in Baton Rouge today: http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/univ-of-michigan-officials-jet-in-baton-ro...
Maybe it's nothing but that plane apparently took RichRod to West Virginia last year. Interesting.
Les Miles in not in Louisiana today, as he is currently playing the Cotton Bowl.
Who knows what business that person in the plane had in Baton Rouge. I can tell you that outside of the few casinos there, there's not a whole lot else to that city for on outsider besides LSU. Plus the report said that there was no record of that plane travelling there since at least September. When you read the article, you can't help but at least say "Hmmm."
Pros: He wins, a lot.
Cons: Everything else.
Conclusion: Les Miles would not be hired under any circumstance if I were DB.
Assume Miles signs 85 per year in the SEC and goes 6 and 6. He is not even in this conversation. I am NOT condoning oversigning. I am bemoaning the SEC's and NCAA's rules. And I don't blame Miles by playing by the SEC's rules in the SEC. Miles should not be the target of derision here.
is spot on. You play by the rules of the league you coach in. If you think U of M would let him oversign like he did in the SEC you are crazy.
Give me the Hatter. I wanted him three years ago and nothing has happened since to change my mind. Dude can recruit and he wins.
You either have it or you don't. Miles has demonstrated that he doesn't. I want a coach who does. I don't want someone who has to be "constrained" to do the right thing.
Sounds as if you were DB this program would continue to play little sister to MSU and Ohio State forever. As long as there not going to hire Hoke. I would puke and detach emotionally for the first time in 34 years. That would prove the dumbass Vallenti's point that Michigan is no longer a powerhouse.
In which case, I would suggest using the reply button, as I am doing now.
I'm not sure how me not wanting Les Miles hired would make me "continue to play little sister to MSU and Ohio State forever." There are clear things in the program, that Miles did, that had many people turn their back on him. I like winning. I also like integrity. Simply winning or simply having integrity aren't good enough and Miles has seemed to have burned too many bridges and has lost a ton of integrity. I'm not saying he's a bad coach, but there are much better options, Hoke being one of them, and that's doesn't mean I'm necessarily putting my support behind Hoke.
...Miles has seemed to have burned too many bridges and has lost a ton of integrity
Can you provide some more details on this statement? Are you saying he burned bridges in Ann Arbor? What actions caused this loss of integrity?
Not attacking you, just wondering what may have occurred that I am not aware of.
Personally, I'd be delighted with the hire. I don't believe there is a better option out there (assuming JH off the table) that can a) rebuild the program and b) unite the base by being a "Michigan Man". Given the talent that is on board, I think LM could pick up where RR left off and take us forward, 8-9 wins next year, rather than take us backwards like, say, Hoke would - albeit temporarily, but a 2-3 year regression/rebuilding nonetheless.
As for the allegations of immorality with recruiting, over-signing, et al, that is easily overcome. Simply put, DB tells him what he's done in SEC is not acceptable at UofM. Those aren't what I view as character flaws, especially when it's deemed acceptable by the SEC and his rivals are also doing the same thing. He does it here, he's out. I'm up for giving him a shot at leading this team back to greatness.
I think the idea from 2007 was that he'd left an upper-decker during a house party at LC's place.
It's well covered territory, but to recap....
-Miles made up a story about Lloyd Carr having Parkinsons, and was telling recruits that he would retire soon. Obviously, Lloyd and the University were none too pleased with this.
-And the coupe de grace...There was a rumor that while Moe was head coach, Les slept with his wife, Ann, thus leading to Moe's drunken tirade at the Excaliber, and Miles' expulsion from the staff
Thanks. I guess I was aware of those, but didn't see most of them as being that big a deal.
Sleeping with Mrs. Mo was one I hadn't heard before.
I also forgot to add that LSU just self-imposed sanctions for recruiting violations.
Considering Dave Brandon is all about cultivating the "Michigan brand," coupled with the probation from stretch gate, it might not be a great idea to hire a guy whose program was just hit with violations.
Something tells me the school wouldn't hire Miles if he'd literally fucked over Lloyd Carr.
The record not the damn name will determine Michigan's national standing. I hope Brandon has the courage and confidence of his own ability to make this decision and not wring his hands worrying about what name will please the masses.
OK, so Brandon addresses this with Miles if he is seriously considered. Yes, it's a mark against him. I do not see it as a deal-breaker because (1) it is, sadly, common in the SEC; (2) it is not common in the Big 10. Guys, we're electing a football coach and not a religious figure. Were this search to be decided by the Ayatollahs of Intergrity the only real candidates would be Ghandi and, perhas, Lloyd Carr.
No mother Theresa! Blasphemy.
..Miles, even his head-scratching, game on the line moves sometimes. As for everything else about him, LSU can have him.
He certainly knows how to win, and even the extra-curricular activities he engages in down there might be more a product of trying to compete in the SEC than his true morals. The "but" of his actions at LSU would be that once someone has compromised their morals, assuming he had them to begin with, it makes it easier to do the next time around, especially in a climate where the fanbase is clamoring for wins.
For me, regarding Miles, it's thanks but no thanks.
and LSU when LSU has never had a major NCAA infraction with football while Michigan was just hit with one two months ago.
Please read the definition of the word ethics and then compare the situation that got us infractions vs what Miles does to his players. Sacrificing the integrity of our program to win would be contrary to what a "Michigan Man" (whatever the hell it really is), means, wouldn't it? Obviously he wouldn't get away with recruiting tactics like that at Michigan, but the fact that he already has done it doesn't really sit well with me. Plus I hate coaches that suck at clock management.
I can see the argument both ways. But I'd be excited by one thing, at least. Miles will put a scare into the other B10 teams.
What about Gary Moeller?? One little incident... He did have a pretty good run. Certainly should be entertained if Miles is in the running.
Mo is also about 70 years old and hasn't coached anywhere in a decade.
I don't know if you were being sarcastic. Moeller didn't have one little incident-he had one that was made public. There were others that didn't appear in the paper. When he embarrassed the university, they decided it was time to pull the plug.
You're just making up shit now.
Ok guys just because ESPN did a feature on Les Miles doesn't make him the only coach to do this. I'm not saying it's a good thing but it's more of a systematic problem with the NCAA. They need to make rules that don't allow this to happen. As long as teams are competing with the likes of Saban and others that push the boundaries of rules, coaches are always going to look for ways to cut corners and in some cases players. College football has become a big nasty business and coaches are held accountable and punished for not winning. Even if you believe RR is the greatest guy in the world, he got fired because he didn't win and that's the bottom line in college football whether you like it or not. I'm not going to crucify Miles for it because I think you're all naive to believe this isn't happening to some degree at all major college football teams and just because ESPN isn't casting a light on every single coach doesn't mean there isn't things you don't know about some coaches that have coached here or you would want to coach here.
The point is you don't really know until they do this kind of feature which they do rarely and only to a small handful of coaches. While I agree it's not a good part of the sport, I'd be more interested in ways to tighten or correct the rules than blacklist only the few coaches that are exposed while theres dozens and dozens of others that do the same thing but simply don't get the same media attention.
Plus infinity bro. Preach on. If we can get Miles and we don't because of this, I'd be severely pissed. He gives us the best chance to win with what we've got. He's not tied to anyone offense. If he has Matt Flynn, he'll work with his talents. if he has Denard Robinson he'll work with his talents. His defenses are always good. This happens in college football. He's not a terrible human being for doing it.
Who did Terry Bowden eat? My god, he looks like a spitting replica of Fat Bastard.
I think the culture at Michigan is strong enough to ensure nothing like SEC player shenanigans happens here. I agree with the sentiment that what happens at LSU, although completely wrong, must be seen through the prism of the SEC where this stuff happens too frequently.
Bring Miles to Michigan and make a honest man out of him.
He will never coach in Ann Arbor, nor would I want him to. To treat players like that is immoral, irrespective of what the norm is in the SEC. Michigan isn't the "norm" and we don't want coaches who treat players in this fashion. One thing that is certain about DB, and that's his focus on building upon a positive brand image. Les Miles is the only coach on the "list" that I would have a serious problem supporting.
I may not love who they hire, but I'll support him. Unless it's Miles. Because that means we've sold our soul.
Is it possible that the Big 10 signing rules (whatever they are, ESPN mentioned them in that piece), could keep Miles from cutting kids? He wouldn't be allowed to go outside those rules.
The Big Ten does have rules against over-recruiting and then cutting. It has a strick 25 sch.per class policy, even when you lose players to transfers. This also includes any JUCO transfers and transfers from other colleges. With those rules and his love for the way Bo ran things I think he would be fine.
Also, this is simply the way things are done in the SEC, because they permit it. I mean at least he is not trying to buy Cam Newton.
Les is the guy for the job in my mind now that Harbaugh is out. He is a guy that can recruit and win immediately.