Hoops Snowflakes (Oregon)

Submitted by SAMgO on

Is this a thing? Might as well be a thing. I'd love some consolidated postgame chatter on what could improve besides START DOYLE.

Why didn't Wilson see any minutes tonight? Is Spike really the next guy we'd plug into the starting lineup if Chatman needs to begin the next couple riding pine? Why do we keep taking long twos?

Soulfire21

November 25th, 2014 at 12:26 AM ^

Wilson has been thoroughly underwhelming so far. I remember last game he came in and promptly collapsed on defense (allowing an easy 3) and turned the ball over on the other end. Beilein may be tinkering with the lineup a bit as it still is early. Rebounding was the big issue tonight and I think that's the biggest issue with the LeVert, Irving, Walton Jr., Spike and Doyle lineup that's now become popular. Caris can come out of his shooting slump any time. Need to shoot better from beyond the arc. This is much more fun than watching football.

Generic MGoBlogger

November 25th, 2014 at 12:22 AM ^

Rebounding and interior defense have my peak interest right now... We really struggled on each.  In addition, we need to start pieceing together this offense.  We know what Walton, Irvin, and LeVert can do, but I would like to see Chatman really develop in the system.  There were flashes from him, but he still looks lost.  Once the offense gets clicking, this team has a high ceiling.

Doyle was a great surprise.  This was ugly, though... Refs didn't help, but the offense was stagnant for much of the game, and we couldn't buy a rebound.  If we can get Donnal in on this like Doyle was involved tonight, this team will get much stronger.

HermosaBlue

November 25th, 2014 at 12:18 PM ^

He transferred to Long Beach Poly for his junior year, was ruled ineligible by the California Interscholastic Federation due to their transfer rules, then went back to Portland for his senior year.  So he basically spent a year in Long Beach not playing in games.

champswest

November 25th, 2014 at 12:42 AM ^

I don't expect Doyle to nail down the center position right now (but maybe later on). We will probably see rotating guys having big nights, Doyle tonight, Max a couple of games ago. Hopefully, someone emerges in a month or so.

Stringer Bell

November 25th, 2014 at 12:49 AM ^

Wilson is lost.  Don't think he'll make much of an impact this year.  Still needs to adjust and needs to spend some serious time at Camp Sanderson.  But he's very skilled and I really think he's going to end up being the best of this freshman class.

Indonacious

November 25th, 2014 at 12:59 AM ^

To early to say, remember that Wilson missed a lot of the offseason due to injury including the Europe trip. And even if he is unable to contribute heavily this year, I don't have any issue with that. Not every Successful player In collegiate basketball displays their full potential in 3 games and I think expectations of players are steep here relatively to what I think is fair. I think belein has earned our trust with respect to player development.

Tater

November 25th, 2014 at 1:36 AM ^

We are spoiled because this staff has developed freshmen early.  Most teams this young, especially ones that didn't buy up all of the five stars like UK, would have lost this game and the UD game while adjusting to assimlating all of the freshmen.  Wilson is slower to develop so far, but I think he will be fine.  

I am guessing it takes until about February for Michigan to start looking like a team that can do some serious damage in the NCAA Tournament.

Gulogulo37

November 25th, 2014 at 2:00 AM ^

I thought I remember very briefly seeing 2 bigs on the floor but it certainly hasn't been common.

What about a starting 5 of Walton, LeVert, Irvin, Bielfeldt, and Doyle? Bielfeldt at the 4 would be better than Chatman right now in terms of offense. Bielfeldt isn't undersized at the 4. You lose a lot of athleticism, but he's shooting better and knows defense better than Chatman. It doesn't mean you're giving up on Chatman, he can easily come off the bench later on. I know Beilein said he's hitting shots in practice, but some guys play better off the bench anyway. Take some pressure off the freshman. Are there that many guys who play the 4 in college ball who would just be too athletic for Bielfeldt to handle?

alum96

November 25th, 2014 at 6:05 AM ^

The only "big" lineup we've had is Max at 5 and Wilson at 4 for a few minutes in that game Max went nuts.

And really Max is a 6'7/8 center so its not really big.   If you see Doyle/Donnal at 5 with Wilson at 4 that is as big as we can go with current positions.  I'd be curous to see some Doyle at 5 and see how Donnal does as a stretch 4.  I think at his core he is a 4 and not a 5.

Mr. Yost

November 25th, 2014 at 8:17 AM ^

No. He was a stretch 4, he's been a stretch 4, he'll always BE a stretch 4.

This was Beilein trying to put Smotrycz at the 5 again.

Donnal can give you minutes at the 5 to spell Max and Ricky, but that's it. But people were saying Horford was leaving because Donnal had locked up the starting C job.

I know, I know, in Beilein I Trust. So never doubt anything. But it no coincidence the best play from the position has come from Max B and Doyle. Let Donnal play WITH those two and maybe we can grab a rebound every now and again. Max B and Donnal can still stretch the floor, so it's not like if they're in the game together all of a sudden we're bogged down in the paint.

I keep saying, this is why we miss Horford and McGary so much --- not just because of their talent, but because it allows everyone to slide "down" and play his natural position.

But they're gone, so...I'd love to see more of this:

PG: Walton - 25 / Albrecht - 15
SG: LeVert - 35 / Walton - 5
SF: Irvin - 30 / Chatman - 10
PF: Donnal - 25 / Chatman - 10 / Wilson - 5
C: Doyle - 25 / Bielfeldt - 15

Mr. Yost

November 25th, 2014 at 9:47 AM ^

...and expanding on it.

I was being dramatic by saying it's not only at his core that he's a 4, but on his limbs, in his head, everything about him is a 4.

He's a 4 that can play some 5, not a 5 that can play some 4.

If you need a small lineup, he's perfect to put in there at the 5 and get more ball handling or shooting onto the floor. But he's a natural stretch 4 player. From his core to his fingernails.

MichiganTeacher

November 25th, 2014 at 8:49 AM ^

I see what you're trying to do, and I empathize to a point, but Spike's the third or fourth best player on this team right now. That may be changing as the youngsters round into form, but certainly for now, I think giving Spike only 15 minutes a night would be a mistake.

treetown

November 25th, 2014 at 8:58 AM ^

The early going in the season is all about finding out about the new guys - how they best fit in, and who has improved and by how much. For someone who is a established quantity like Spike, there isn't any reason yet to play him a lot so long as the others are showing progress. We'll see a lot more of him once the Big Ten season starts.

mistersuits

November 25th, 2014 at 9:24 AM ^

No way Walton gets that few minutes a game. Last night he had 24 minutes only because he was in foul trouble from the get go and that will not happen but once in twenty games.

LeVert/Irvin/Walton are going to be out there the entire game if it allows. What you'd like to see develop over the season is Doyle, Chatman and Donnal to play well enough to eat into Spike's minutes, relegate Max to the bench and to cover for any of the big 3 that happen to get into foul trouble on a given night.

LeVert - 38
Irvin - 38
Walton - 35
Doyle - 25
Albrecht - 20
Donnal - 15
Chatman - 15
Wilson/Bielfeldt - 10
Dawkins/MAAR - 4

DingoBlue

November 25th, 2014 at 1:42 AM ^

Wilson is not an impact player in year 1 with this roster.  I didn't expect that going in, and seems to be coming through so far.  That said, he has perhaps the second most room to grown of any freshman on the roster behind Chatman.

On Chatman, once the game slows down for him (something that McGary and Stauskas seems to indicate happens around March) he will be a critical piece of this team.  We keep seeing flashes, but Kam still has a ways to go.

I hate the moniker "Michigan's Big Three" but they are delivering so far.  Caris and Walton are showing a great ability to get to the rim which helps the rest of the team.  Irvin is doing what he needs to do, and seems to be closer to a freshman level Stauskas in terms of "not just a shooter".

Dawkins has so much potential that may well not be tapped this season.  He is all kinds of athletic but has to get his mind and IQ up a bit before I think he's really threatening for minutes.  Just hope he continues to have a solid 3 point shot.

Spike... don't know where to begin.  He's still just Spike, but that means so much more now that he's Junior Spike instead of freshman/sophomore Spike.  He and Walton should not be working together as well as they do, but that tells you a lot about how multiple years in Beilein's system treats you.

Donnal I do think is going to lose playing time to Doyle progressively.  That said, I think Donnal fits a really nice niche on this team as the "finesse" big that has some range.  We haven't seen that yet, but as long as that's his reputation and scouting report, that helps us.

Doyle.  I am 100% convinced that if Doyle is somehow not the starter at the 5 by B1G play, he will be the starter before the season is out.  He's not McGary, he's not McGary-Lite, but he is the most physical presence in the frontcourt for this team.  That is something we need.  Moreover, he seems to have decent hands and a good IQ.  We don't need him to be a stretch 5 like Donnal, but we need him to be better at cleaning up the defensive glass.

On DReb.... I'm half convinced Beilein is coaching it such that the Bigs don't rebound themselves, they box out or tip out to give guards the rebound.  Donnal is always tipping, and Doyle seems more focused on staying on his guy when he's focusing on boxing out.

gwkrlghl

November 25th, 2014 at 2:18 AM ^

Cool to feel like we get a home game in NYC. Love seeing how many fans and alums we have out there. Got to see us play WVU there two seasons ago (three?) and that was great. Looked like a heavy Michigan crowd tonight as well.

We'll see who wins the crowd battle tomorrow with Nova being just down the road

maineandblue

November 25th, 2014 at 2:38 AM ^

Did anyone else notice the jerseys? Translucent above the chest, solid jersey material below. Players would have looked super hot if they had boobs. Is this a new tweak? I never liked the shooting star thing on the shorts, and definetly don't like this. I be angar. 

kehnonymous

November 25th, 2014 at 9:26 AM ^

He might be referring to the subtly different texture on the uniform shoulders that could look translucent in the right light.

At any rate, these current uniforms have grown on me - granted, the players winning lots while wearing them helps a LOT.  I'm good with keeping them around.

http://www.umhoops.com/2014/11/25/photo-gallery-michigan-70-oregon-63/m…

maineandblue

November 25th, 2014 at 3:15 PM ^

Yep, that's what I'm referring to (thanks for finding a pic). I don't think the difference is subtle, and I think it especially stands out when they're sweaty at the free throw line. The difference also comes through more with the lighter skinned players. It's not nearly as bad as the bumble bee football uniforms, just saying I don't like it and wondering if anyone else feels the same. 

Naked Bootlegger

November 25th, 2014 at 9:47 AM ^

Most freshmen are lost at this juncture.  Let's be patient.   I think we'll get sporadic production from the 1st year players.  Doyle will be hot one night, while Donnal or Chatman will chip in more on other nights.   Enjoy those moments of potential, just as we enjoyed glimpses of Irvin's talent last year, Levert the year before (remember that Caris didn't even see any PT until well into the season), Darius Morris, etc..   They'll learn the offense slowly.  They'll learn their defensive obligations in due time.   When February rolls around, we should have a few solid contributors from the first year class.  

Coach Carr Camp

November 25th, 2014 at 11:59 AM ^

Kinda amazes me how short some people's memory is here. No one remembers McGary was sporadic on offense and a total liability on D most freshman year, he only really broke out in the touny. Irvin started his career something like 1-14, didn't break out last year until that Nebraska route at home. The offense in general didn't get rollin until about B10 play last year, and was really just a Stauskas 1 on 1 show first few games (hmmmm, now doesn't that sound familiar?). And the D that people were complaining about the first 3 games, just gave Oregon to nothing in their half court offense, so its clearly improving. Same time last year we just barely beat Florida State, and lost to Charlotte. We may not be as good as last year but some people's expectations here amaze me.

Hail-Storm

November 25th, 2014 at 10:12 AM ^

I was thoroughly impressed with Irvin's handle and ability to take the ball to the rim.  His motion was smooth and ball security was great in traffic.  I know that THJ and GRIII each struggled to create on their own by taking it to the rim, but were still deadly with their shots and athleticism.  Irvin seems to have taken the track of Morris, Stauskus, and Caris.  Just very impressed after seing very little of that part of his game last year.

I also think that Caris puts too much pressure on himself sometimes on offense.  He's taken some early shots that were not necessary that he didn't last year.  I think this will change quickly as he becomes more comfortable with the young players and they grow in the system. On the other hand, his defense just seems to be getting better.  He uses his length well to get in passing lanes, and his strength gains are huge (I constantly have a hard time identifying him because of how much bigger he's gotten).  I think he will be our best outside defender in a while. 

Hail-Storm

November 25th, 2014 at 1:01 PM ^

He's not going to juke guys with his ball handling, but I think his drives to the rim are already leaps better than THJ or GRIII. They always seemed to falter in traffic.  Small sample sizes shows that this will be part of Irvin's game.  Having a 3 point specialist who can attack the rim is dangerous.  If he can show some vision when he attacks (with some dishes), he may start to quickly move up draft boards.  

doughboy

November 25th, 2014 at 12:24 PM ^

Never could pull away from Oregon, but that was kinda expected.  Glad to see the rotation go so deep - 11 I think.  Good win away from home and for the Freshmen to be a part of.  Tight until the very end.