Borges' State gameplan - Indiana or new?
The success our offense enjoyed vs. Indiana, compounded by prior struggles, entices Borges to roll out the same game plan vs. Sparty. Scary, given how Sparty keys on our schemes all year. Throwing a predictable game plan at them in two weeks, on the road no less, bodes very poorly.
Borges has two weeks to prepare. Can he throw some surprises at them under the old “I know that you know that I know” gambit, where he knows Sparty will key on stopping the exact same game plan UM rolled out vs. Indiana?
Personally not holding my breath. I anticipate Staee stacking the box and daring Gardner to throw into their extremely talented secondary, where he’ll be under severe pressure all day long, with little time for his receivers to finish their routes.
How to counter this Big Al? The universe sees this coming in two weeks.
SLIGHT MOD EDIT: Changed "Staee" to "State". Come now, folks. - LSA
October 21st, 2013 at 12:39 PM ^
They play a lot of Cover 3 scheme whether if it's straight Cover 3 or Cover 3 Buzz/Sky/cloud. They like to play press coverage. You think they're aggressive, but in reality, they're pretty conservative and doesn't like to take a lot of risk in terms of playcall. MSU defense plays disciplined and does a good job of having defenders reading proper keys.
October 21st, 2013 at 1:35 PM ^
If it is so cut and dry then why has their defense been so dominant this season? That seems like an easy gameplan to implement.
October 21st, 2013 at 11:52 AM ^
I think this game comes down to who can run the ball better......as most of the games between these two teams, the team that runs the ball better wins 9 out of 10 times. This doesn't bode well for us, having an inexperienced and young O-Line who has struggled to create holes for the running backs. MSU is the #1 Defense in the country giving up 58.6 rushing yards per game. Devin will probably have to run the ball a lot in this game.
October 21st, 2013 at 5:23 PM ^
I think this game is the one time out of ten where rushing yards are not decisive. I don't think either team is going to fnd much success running the ball. I agree with everyone who says that turnover margin is probably going to be the key to victory, with third-down conversion % also being very significant.
October 21st, 2013 at 11:54 AM ^
If we had a Wisconsin/Bama-esque O-Line, a conservative game plan wouldn't bother me. But unfortunately, we don't. And I feel like a conservative game plan plays right into MSU's hands. I guess all I can say is thankfully we have two weeks to get ready for this game.
October 21st, 2013 at 12:19 PM ^
On hopes the gameplan is "score more points than MSU". MSU will be a slog, and things that worked against IU will not do so against the Spartans. I don't foresee him asking Gardner to throw downfield as much, but Funchess and Gallon will be the best two WRs MSU has seen all year, and this remains a defensive unit that can struggle if the referees are calling PIs and all of the tugging guys like Dennard do throughout the game. If the defense is allowed to play the rough style we've seen in the past, though, I suspect UM will play a conservative offensive style much like last year, as MSU's offense is still pretty much a tire fire with occassional bouts of competency. Limit those and I suspect UM will win.
October 21st, 2013 at 1:38 PM ^
Conservative offensive gameplan and hope that the defense can hold them? Sounds like we'll be playing the exact game that MSU plays if that is done. That sounds like a recipe for disaster for this team seeing as how that is the antithesis of this team's identity.
October 21st, 2013 at 8:22 PM ^
October 21st, 2013 at 12:21 PM ^
I would like to see the shotgun, read option and short passing because I believe it is our best chance to move the ball and score, but Hoke makes a gameplan with both sides of the ball in mind. He let Borges air it out more against Indiana because he knew we would need to score to keep pace. If he believes MSU can't score against our Defense, he will probably go very conservative on Offense to avoid turnovers. It will likely be a very frustrating game to watch.
October 21st, 2013 at 2:59 PM ^
I doubt Borges just independently comes up with the game plan with no input from Hoke or conversations with the defensive staff. I'm guessing part of the reason for the wide open attack against IU is because the coaching staff knew the odds of it being a 24-14 game were very low. In all likelihood they knew they were going to need to score some points.
I'd bet that Mattison/Hoke and defensive staff probably feel pretty good about the defense's ability to keep MSU's offense in check. With a QB that has been prone to turnovers, I'm guessing we're going to see a more conservative approach on offense. I'd like to think the coaches realize that based upon the results so far this year, the chances of UM getting a lot of production from the rb's on the ground isn't very good. Hopefully, we aren't going to see Fitz consistently getting blown up in the backfield, but I doubt we're going to see the wide open offense that we saw against IU.
October 21st, 2013 at 12:22 PM ^
Most of you guys are crediting Borges with the intelligence of an ashtray. Power running didn't work at all against Penn State. It barely worked against Indiana's non-defense. Why do any of you think he would think it would work against MSU, who has arguably the best run defense in the nation? If they stack the box, any handoff is just a waste of a down.
I could see us running a conservative game plan, but it would be a sane conservative plan such as: run the scoring offense with handoffs only as a constraint play, but have Gardner scramble or throw it away instead of throwing into coverage.
October 21st, 2013 at 12:26 PM ^
...and i will predict a michigan win this time, too, but it's pretty easy to imagine our offensive coordinator looking at that defense and deciding to do whatever it takes to eliminate any and all risks...so i don't expect us to do much more than the usual conservative game plan. especially on the road, where...uh...we haven't pulled out too many stops during his tenure.
October 21st, 2013 at 12:27 PM ^
Light on fire the couch the OL is sitting on!
Go Blue!
October 21st, 2013 at 12:29 PM ^
I'd love to see a lot downfield passing that we saw versus Indiana. Problem is, MSU is going to blitz and blitz and blitz, and Gardner isn't going to have as much time to complete those double-move passes to Gallon.
One of the things that I'd love to see (but most likely won't) is when Borges calls power runs (which I think should be very few vs. MSU) run them up tempo. Come to the line, run power, quickly back to the line, run power, quickly back to the line run power -- don't give the defense time to set up. Then, right when their tongues are hanging out, and they're selling out on your up tempo power run, hit them with a nice little play pass or QB boot run/pass option.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Borges will, despite all of his doubters in here, come out with something well conceived to stop MSU's psycho defense. I am looking forward to it!
October 21st, 2013 at 1:05 PM ^
October 21st, 2013 at 1:27 PM ^
I am arriving at this conclusion for several reasons. First, he's going to have a full week of practice to implement something different. Second, he just called a game (even if against IU) in which he "opened it up" and had record setting success. Lastly, Borges knows that MSU's defense is not only good and uber aggressive, but is especially jacked up against Michigan. He knows that running the ball up the middle, at least from under center, just isn't going to work. Unless, he comes out and does the classic "break tendency" scheme.
Breaking tendency, however, requires execution. If Devin & Co. can execute early, get MSU's defense wondering, Michigan should win. I think Borges knows he cannot line up against MSU and go toe-to-toe with them, so he won't try.
We'll see.
October 21st, 2013 at 7:08 PM ^
October 21st, 2013 at 12:31 PM ^
and I am still not convinced that Borges/Hoke will be able to gameplan well enough to beat Ohio or even Sparty. I hope I am wrong, but we will see.
October 21st, 2013 at 12:46 PM ^
Borges/Hoke have done pretty badly on the road. Now, this time they have two weeks, if they still cannot get the job done, i am not surprised that Borgers is asked to leave by DB.
October 21st, 2013 at 7:37 PM ^
October 21st, 2013 at 12:34 PM ^
Just because Al Borges comes up with a proper gameplan against a terrible defense doesn't mean he gets my confidence or the benefit of the doubt. He's shit the bed in far too many big games for me to have any confidence that he'll show up with a prepared offense for one of the nation's best defenses. I hope he proves me wrong.
October 21st, 2013 at 12:37 PM ^
What about the big games where he did NOT shit the bed? It's seems that people that have the least confidence in Borges have a selective memory and never give him credit for his successes. Not very fair to me.
October 21st, 2013 at 12:42 PM ^
because I don't seem to remember any.
October 21st, 2013 at 1:21 PM ^
UTL2? People were lauding him, and worried that Devin was going to the NFL? Remember?
October 21st, 2013 at 12:45 PM ^
I don't think it's necessarily selective memory here. We have had very limited offensive success on the road against half-way decent team with our current coaching staff. Notice all the awesome game Borges called were at home (and Bowl game last year, which I was overall happy with the offense). This is what makes me nervous about the next MSU game. I sincerely hope that Borges will prove me wrong.
October 22nd, 2013 at 4:17 AM ^
October 21st, 2013 at 12:37 PM ^
State is not going to do anything differently than they have been on defense. They'll play cover four, frequently use the double-A-gap blitzes, and use press coverage.
Their defense is not unpredictable; it is simple, it is smart, it is well-executed. We have to win some match-ups to score points:
- Gallon and Funchess need to beat press coverage and get open
- The O-Line needs to provide DG time to throw
- The O-Line needs to prevent TFLs when we do run
- At least one role player will have to step-up (ie Dileo last year)
Basically, we have to win our match-ups with their very good secondary, keep their very good D-Line and LBs out of backfield, and have Butt, Chesson, Dileo (if healthy), Norfleet, or someone step up. All of these things are really hard to do.
October 21st, 2013 at 12:57 PM ^
- Change up the snap count. (noted in thread)
- Limit QB runs (cheap shots)
- Get play call in sooner (hot read/audible)
- Gameplan as if UM is down 10-14 points (1.5 int / .5fumble) to start game.
October 21st, 2013 at 12:42 PM ^
But it has to have more bubble screen play/ short pass play when they stack the box. Those long-time developed play action play will result in SACK, SACK and SACK! and should not be used that frequently.
October 21st, 2013 at 4:04 PM ^
Agreed. Some short screens and slants would be good to see. The long developing PA will lead to Gardner scrambling backwards.
October 21st, 2013 at 1:17 PM ^
IMO, Fitz is the team's best runner. But like anyone else, he needs at least a little bit of space in which to operate. Therefore, I would like to see a few swing passes to him, kind of like the one in the ND game. Bottom line: get Fitz in position to succeed, and get the ball in his hands.
Also, as noted above, Gallon and Funchess will likely get lots of attention, so could this be the game in which Chesson breaks out? I love his special teams play, but there is tons more potential with this kid we haven't seen yet. Secret weapon - we need one.
Edited to add: if not (or maybe in addition to) Chesson, how great would it be to see Jake Butt hopefully having a break out game as the new "secret weapon"?
I really hope Dileo is healthy. He will be needed.
October 21st, 2013 at 1:23 PM ^
This is not a spread team no matter how much you all want it to be. We do not have coaches for that and we actually play defense. Part of that is by keeping the other team off the field. This is not fantasy football and no points are given for most yards, most plays or the speed they are ran. The model is get more talent keep the other team on the side line and beat them doing what you do. Boring, maybe, but I would rather be bored winning than flashy and lose.
October 21st, 2013 at 1:35 PM ^
October 21st, 2013 at 1:47 PM ^
October 21st, 2013 at 3:20 PM ^
but you're ignornig reality. If winning is really what you want than you should be hoping for more play out of the gun and less under center because this staff (and this team) has shown that they perform much better when playing out of the gun and not under center. You sound a lot like what I imagine AB sounds like except he says "I'd rather lose while running my offense than win while running something else." That is the impresion I had prior to the Indiana game, though at least now I have hope.
My point is, as a fan you should be happy with your team winning whether they are doing it the way you want them to or not. If that's the case, then you desire to see them run a "boring" gameplan isn't going to yeild the results you want (if history is any indication).
October 21st, 2013 at 1:27 PM ^
Not sure why all the downvotes - seems like a legitimate question to me. And as somebody said over the weekend (sorry cant remember who but it wasnt me) "Michigan's offense seems like it's under House Arrest and isnt allowed to leave home".
That was brilliant IMO.
October 21st, 2013 at 1:50 PM ^
Maybe the tether has a radius that exceeds the grasp of Ann Arbor and extends to East Lansing. I'll get the techs to do some toggling to make this happen. Legs need to be stretched afterall.
October 21st, 2013 at 1:46 PM ^
Go Blue
October 21st, 2013 at 1:47 PM ^
My bad
October 21st, 2013 at 2:15 PM ^
Didn't Indiana score their first TD against State on a run up the middle? I'm not saying we should do it all the time, but, it definitely needs to stay in the playbook, just not always on first down or third and short.
October 21st, 2013 at 2:38 PM ^
It seems to me that IU's running game works because it's such a surprise. They spread you out, sling it around, and then right when you adjust, they hit you up the middle. Not saying it's not a feather in IU's cap in scoring a rushing TD agaist MSU, but it's not that amazing.
October 21st, 2013 at 6:49 PM ^
October 21st, 2013 at 2:56 PM ^
to see something with Gardner split out wide and Morris at qb if Gardner comes back very healthy from the bye week.
October 21st, 2013 at 5:40 PM ^
October 21st, 2013 at 3:12 PM ^
Staee's D is super aggressive. Hopefully we have some plays lined up to punish them for it. A few counters, throwback screens, etc... Maybe Norfleet on a reverse. I don't think our usual PA from the I is going to cut it.
October 21st, 2013 at 3:32 PM ^
I agree 100%!
To add to that, MSU's defense seems to go insane when the play Michigan -- it's like they cannot help themselves and get all kinds of personal fouls. I think Hoke & Co. need to make sure that their guys remain under control, and call a game that utilizes MSU's hyper-aggresive scheme against them. DO NOT play to their hand, and DO NOT get retaliation penalties.
October 21st, 2013 at 3:14 PM ^
on Sparty including a long rushing TD right up the middle.
MSU attacks the LOS with their lbs. They are quick to read and adjust. Their corners play press coverage and use their hands a lot to disrupt routes and stay close.
Gardner will most likely be throwing into tight windows. He will face a lot of pressure from a series of delayed and double gap blitzes. Bullough will likely be employed as a spy and then shoot gaps on certain pass plays.
Sparty gets good push from its front four which is both tall and quick.
How do you attack an attacking defense? You attack it straight on and on the perimeter with quick-hitting plays. You throw to backs out of the backfield and you use screens and draws to curb line and blitzing pressure. You spread out the defense and go after mismatches.
The best way to beat this team is with an offensive barrage not a defensive struggle. MSU wants a grinder game in which it controls the clock, and pounds your defense with its run game and quick bubble screens, pick routes, slants and crossing patterns. It will go deep on Michigan with Fowler or Kings, because everyone has with certain success.
Michigan needs to dial up its defense, and come with pressure packages that MSU hasn't seen Michigan use much this year. I'd like to see Ryan get more rotation action, but I guess that depends on his health and ability to make himself a disruptive force.
No question, this game is the season for both teams.
October 21st, 2013 at 4:16 PM ^
I predict somewhere Spartan Bob is still laughing.
October 21st, 2013 at 5:12 PM ^
October 21st, 2013 at 6:14 PM ^