All Quad 1 Records are NOT created equal
I would like to raise the point that Gonzaga's only Quad 1 Road win is @BYU.
I believe their Quad 1 wins are: Kansas, Auburn, WV, Iowa, Virginia, BYU, and @BYU. The rest of those are all at home!
Michigan's Quad 1 wins are: @WISC, @OSU, @PUR, @MARY, Iowa, WISC, MARY. That's 4 huge road wins and 1 loss @MN.
For 7-0 vs 7-1 but those records in Quad 1 are NOT equal. Am I correct on which games are Quad 1? This changes as the rankings change correct? ESPN used to have a 'resume' tab where those wins would be listed explicitly. Anyone know about something like that for this year?
February 26th, 2021 at 12:39 PM ^
Beat Indiana
February 26th, 2021 at 1:08 PM ^
100%. Keep playing well, keep winning, win the championship...then we can talk whose Quad 1 wins are better afterwards. These are the worst type of posts.
February 26th, 2021 at 2:01 PM ^
Its a fine post. What the hell is it keeping you from. ITS A DISCUSSION BOARD people. The goal isnt radio silence.
February 26th, 2021 at 2:15 PM ^
Radio silence makes for a long, boring day at work.
...
I mean, not that I refresh all day long at work.
...
But yeah, I refresh all day long at work.
What if, what if, what if. Beat Illinois, beat State (2x), win the BIG Tourney and then you can “discuss” who should be the overall #1 seed in the Tourney.
February 26th, 2021 at 3:48 PM ^
You forgot "not until we beat MSU and OSU in football"
February 26th, 2021 at 4:03 PM ^
Just win, baby!
Al Davis
February 26th, 2021 at 12:42 PM ^
There is no game more important than the next one on the schedule!!!
February 26th, 2021 at 3:05 PM ^
Wouldn’t we all agree though that the first game we play in the NCAA tourny more important then the Indiana game?
February 26th, 2021 at 3:13 PM ^
Sure, but it’s unlikely that whatever 16-seed we play is going to be appreciably different from which we Gonzaga or Baylor plays. All three will win going away.
February 26th, 2021 at 3:54 PM ^
Ask Virginia about them ol 16 seeds.
February 26th, 2021 at 3:20 PM ^
Honestly we are overlooking the obvious. Winning our last game of the tournament is all that matters.
February 26th, 2021 at 4:59 PM ^
Yep just win the last game we play in
February 26th, 2021 at 12:52 PM ^
I started a similar discussion in the UM B-Ball thread. Ultimately, the conversation is mostly academic since Michigan is already in a position to earn a 1-seed in the tournament. Barring some kind of breakdown over the next few games, Michigan will remain a 1-seed for the tourney. It's mostly splitting hairs at this point to compare resumes with Gonzaga and Baylor. I know there is a part of the fanbase that wants the pride of being able to claim a #1 overall seed, but...meh.
That said, I would agree overall that Michigan's resume is stronger than Gonzaga's to this point, and is only going to get stronger with the remaining teams on the schedule. But, Gonzaga has still beaten some strong teams (some of them handily), and you can only play the schedule that you have. To me, Gonzaga is justified as the #1 team in the country at this point.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:16 PM ^
Well said. I realize that it matters most, moving forward, to just win. I'm not taking the position, that is in any way paramount to be considered #1... obviously.
I just wonder if any of these pundits have actually looked at the Quad 1 records side by side let alone dissected what teams they have beaten within those records, the answer seems like probably not.
February 26th, 2021 at 2:43 PM ^
Dude, you probably should do a little better research into your facts before you post something like this especially when you question whether the "pundits" (who cares about them anyway) have looked at the records side by side. You clearly haven't even done that!
Gonzaga's games against Kansas (FL), Iowa (SD), WVU (IN) and Virginia (TX) were all on neutral floors much closer to their opponents than Washington state. Those are all top 17 NET teams away from home.
Q1 is precisely created to make comparisons more even than the old "top 50" they used to use. It does that by calling road games against the top 75 Q1 but only home games against the top 30 Q1 (and neutral games v top 50). It's not perfect, but it makes it such that you can't really say that a team has a tougher Q1 record just based on road games, per se. If those road games are against teams in the back end of the top 75 (like Minnesota at 65th), those are about equivalent to home games against the back end of the top 30.
No question Gonzaga's overall schedule has been easier with seven games against Q4. Their conference isn't on the same planet as the big ten. But they did well to schedule tough non-conf games, beat all comers and have a Q1 SoS about equivalent to M's.
In any case, Michigan is a lock for a one seed so it's not a big deal. They won't have to play Gonzaga or Baylor before the final four and that's the important thing.
February 26th, 2021 at 4:46 PM ^
And, yes rankings change during the course of the season. Q1 can become Q2 and vice versa, depending on on-going season results.
February 26th, 2021 at 12:53 PM ^
I’m pretty sure the wins over Kansas, WVU, Iowa, UVA, and Auburn are neutral site wins for the Zags.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:54 PM ^
And with no fans this year, those neutral site games are really close to being the equivalent of road games. Gonzaga is still very impressive.
February 26th, 2021 at 2:34 PM ^
Yup, no reason to put down Gonzaga's achievement to make us look better. Home vs Away means very little this season.
February 26th, 2021 at 12:55 PM ^
Gonzaga's wins over WVU, Iowa, Auburn, Kansas and UVA were all at neutral sites. Nobody travels to Gonzaga for non-conference games. With no fans an neutral site isn't much different than a road game.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:22 PM ^
...or a pandemic home game for that matter.
February 26th, 2021 at 12:58 PM ^
Not that it is of great importance, but of those wins you listed, only BYU came at home for Gonzaga. The rest were neutral. Kansas and Auburn were in Florida, West Virginia was in Indy, Iowa was at the Corn Palace in South Dakota, and Virginia was outside of Dallas.
So the Zags racked up the neutral court wins.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:35 PM ^
Maybe so but the Zags only have 5 wins against ranked opponents and only 1 against a top ten team, compared to UM's 7 ranked wins and 3 top ten wins, plus they play in a weak WCC. I for one don't see why they should be ranked higher than UM. If they're game against Baylor hadn't been cancelled they wouldn't be undefeated.
Really doesn't matter, as many have pointed out, UM just needs to keep winning. It just chaps my ass sometimes that the Zags get more respect nationally.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:51 PM ^
one other thing people are missing about gonzaga - they are having trouble against some of their weak in-conference teams at least in half time scores. they might make it to blow-out time by the end of the game, but they've had 3-4 pt differences a few games with low mid-major opposition in the WCC. not saying they're bad, but imagine if they showed up with that effort v a B10 schedule.
February 26th, 2021 at 2:00 PM ^
Guess we will find out when/if they play.
Btw, not downgrading UM at because I think they can beat anyone, but UM hasn't played any decent out of conference teams. It's hard to compare them to the rest of the country except thru B1G teams that they have beaten.. It's kinda like trying to do pairwise in hockey.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:07 PM ^
I mean, I agree with the general premise that Gonzaga plays a soft schedule, which gives them a big advantage with no punishment in terms of seeding, but this post doesn't really pass the logic test. None of those games for Gonzaga were home games, they were neutral site. Kansas and Auburn were played in Florida, WVU played in Indiana, Iowa in South Dakota (seriously), Virginia in Texas. Besides the point, there aren't fans at the games anyway. So there's no crowd advantage either way, and if your concern is that they haven't had to travel to play their games, well that's just not true.
The big advantage for them is they play their only games of consequence in the first month and a half of the season. Everyone in the big ten is playing full-out effort, entire games, multiple times a week against high-level competition for months, while Gonzaga routinely plays their starters for a half against Portland State, and then rests them. They need to join a high major conference or go independent.
February 26th, 2021 at 8:23 PM ^
This isn’t football so it makes no sense to be “independent” in hoops. They schedule the toughest opponents and take on all comers in their out of conference schedule. They are in Spokane, so no Power 5 conference is going to take them w/o a major TV market behind them. St. Mary’s and BYU are usually tournament teams so they get enough competition in their conference to get by. They’re legit and all will play out in the tourney, if we meet up with them it will all be settled on the court.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:10 PM ^
Gonzaga best Iowa at a neutral site in Iowa I believe.
Michigan is good and needs to just keep winning.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:11 PM ^
I'd like to be the first to point out that all of those quad 1 wins were neutral site games.
February 26th, 2021 at 7:04 PM ^
You were like the tenth. haha
March 22nd, 2021 at 11:35 AM ^
Well, all he said was that he would LIKE to be the first.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:20 PM ^
Who cares? We'll be a #1 seed and will eventually get to determine who's best on the court.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:26 PM ^
Im just hoping Baylor slips and we can slide into the #2 spot. With each having 1 loss I definitely think our resume would move us ahead of them. Frankly I think a 2 loss Michigan team could move ahead of a 1 loss Baylor team. They just have that mystique of undefeated right now that makes it impossible to jump them no matter how good we look.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:30 PM ^
They are both going to be 1 seeds playing all their tourney games in Indy. It doesn’t matter this year.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:30 PM ^
I wish Gonzaga would have had Michigan's schedule this year or been in the B1G conference and see how their won/loss record would have been. Perhaps not as good as Michigan's.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:31 PM ^
I think Gonzaga, Baylor and Michigan all have a pretty good shot at #1 seed in the Midwest Region.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:46 PM ^
I do not disagree however, all of their Quad 1 wins other than the BYU games are neutral site. Not home games as stated.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:53 PM ^
Gonzaga and Baylor strength of schedule doesn't matter because they were determined to be 1-2 in August. Michigan has to change their mind every game.
February 26th, 2021 at 1:53 PM ^
Does the committee feel that way?
February 26th, 2021 at 2:02 PM ^
Fair points, but let's all just sit back and enjoy the fact that all we have to gripe about is *which* #1 seed we are. This is a good place to be.
February 26th, 2021 at 2:05 PM ^
Funny thing is that it doesn't really even matter that much between #1 overall seed and #3. We can't play Iowa/OSU/or Illinois as our 2 seed. So we are all but locked into having 1 of Alabama/Villanova/West Virginia as the 2 seed in our bracket, pending in how the finish the season.
TECHNICALLY, it will impact our 3/4 seed, but would you rather face Kansas or Texas or USC or Creighton? Splitting hairs between those teams. I'm more worried about us getting the wrong matchup in an 8/9 game (ie. I'd rather not get Oregon or SDSU).
February 26th, 2021 at 3:24 PM ^
Creighton is trash. Bring em on.
February 26th, 2021 at 2:05 PM ^
Give me the bracket filled with non Baylor big 12 teams, Creighton, and teams with a consistent meh season.
I dont want to be in the bracket with the high ceiling teams like FSU and Bama.
That being said we will play either or both of FSU Bama. I can just feel it.
February 26th, 2021 at 2:22 PM ^
This... Baylor also being a No 1 is advantage us, since that means a few of those highly ranked (but to my eyes fraudulent ) Big 12 teams will get shipped to other brackets, including ours.
February 26th, 2021 at 2:08 PM ^
As far as I can tell Gonzaga played at Iowa. That aside I'm completely with you.
Except for BYU it looks as though all those Quad 1 games were played in either November or December.
Gonzaga is definitely talented but they've been playing softer teams for quite awhile now. Time will tell if that catches up with them.
Oops. It says Gonzaga @ Iowa. Not sure now that it was a neutral site for both.
February 26th, 2021 at 2:26 PM ^
I think this is Gonzaga's biggest problem. They're talented enough just about every year, but it's got to be hard to not be tested half the year, and then have to go against other elites in the Tourney.
February 26th, 2021 at 2:38 PM ^
I agree. It's not like they're dodging anyone. Just about who's in their conference. Great for racking up wins. Not so great come tournament time.
February 26th, 2021 at 2:09 PM ^
the beauty of the tournament is that everything is decided on the court.
I think Michigan is getting tons of respect for what they have done this season. 3rd in the nation is damn impressive.
Eventually, it will be all answered on the hard court - let Baylor and Gonzaga continue to believe they are in a different tier than Michigan. If/when they meet on the court, then we'll see.
February 26th, 2021 at 2:22 PM ^
It doesn't matter what games you play or how you play them. Both Gonzaga and Baylor started in the top 5 and picked off the teams in front of them. Michigan started unranked, and picked off the teams in front of them. Like we see in the football polls, once you establish a poll position (and keep winning), you're there until a team in front of you loses.
Sometimes, if a team in front of you is a suspect non-blueblood, a tighter than expected win might be enough to drop them against a really good win for you. But that's rare...