Rashad Weaver Decommits
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FL DE Rashad Weaver has decommitted. He's upset after Harbaugh told him there was only a 50/50 shot they'd have a slot for him on Signing Day and will take one of the other D-I offers he received. Weaver visited Temple recently and will be at USF and Illinois in the near future.
Weaver was one of the players we were assuming would not be in the class. Setting a visit to a non power-5 school is almost always a sign that a player committed to Michigan isn't going to get to Signing Day as a commit, and Weaver set that visit way back in November. He clearly had an idea of his status and moved to do something about it.
Still, you'd hope the past couple weeks inform the staff that in the twitter era you'd better do something a little more explicit than not calling for months if you don't want unpleasant public relations flare-ups on the regular.
January 26th, 2016 at 7:59 AM ^
were saying at the time of Weaver's commitment that there was likely not going to be any room in the class for him, which suggests that there were open questions about the solidity of the offer from the very beginning.
• Did the staff make it clear to Weaver from the beginning that the offer was conditional? If they did, then there's no problem with what the staff did.
• If the staff did NOT make it clear from the beginning that the offer was conditional, and Weaver did not get confirmation of that fact until January, then the staff handled it very poorly IMHO.
January 26th, 2016 at 8:11 AM ^
January 26th, 2016 at 10:18 AM ^
January 26th, 2016 at 11:06 AM ^
I find I'm playing devil's advocate a lot here, but how much responsibility does UM staff's have throughout the process? First, these discussions are a bit ridiculous because no one here knows all the facts, but if, say, when the offered Weaver and accepted a commitment, they told him upfront they may not have a spot for him, keep looking at other schools, and they'll let Weaver know when they know if they'll have a spot available, it then Harbaugh's responsibility to call him every month to make sure he's still looking around? Or does some of that responsibility shift to the prospect? I mean, when I got waitlisted to my top choice grad school, I didn't sit on my hands until I got notification of wheather I got accepted or not.
Now, the above assumes a lot that I, nor no one here, knows about how the recruitment went down, but just because they didn't contact him for 7 months doesn't neccsarily mean there was a lack of communication or upfrontedness between the two.
January 26th, 2016 at 8:27 AM ^
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January 26th, 2016 at 9:25 AM ^
Now if the bottom fell out of recruiting the past month, then he may have had a spot.
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January 26th, 2016 at 9:46 AM ^
So many posts in this thread saying essentially the kid was blindsided. Yet, somehow we all knew he probably wasn't going to be in the class well ahead of time. Same thing with Swenson. The misplaced outrage is ridiculous.
January 26th, 2016 at 10:24 AM ^
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January 26th, 2016 at 9:40 AM ^
Maybe, or maybe Weaver might have decided to take visits because of the lack of contact from the staff over the course of several months, rather than as a result of being told something specific by the staff. It's pretty evident, judging from what Webb has said this morning, that Weaver didn't get a clear confirmation of his recruit status until Harbaugh talked with him in January.
The fact that there were apparently questions about his really having a viable spot in the class from the beginning leads to more questions.
• Why did the staff offer him in the first place?
• If the staff didn't regard him as a must-have recruit from the beginning, why did they simply not wait to offer him until it was clear that a roster spot was going to be available to him?
To suggest that a staff as professionally competent as Harbaugh's didn't conclude months ago that Weaver wasn't good enough to warrant a spot stretches the bounds of believability.
I doubt if one of Bo's Lasting Lessons was "don't talk directly with somebody to let them know what the real deal is until as late as possible in the process."
January 26th, 2016 at 9:51 AM ^
January 26th, 2016 at 10:10 AM ^
Well when was Harbuagh supposed to have a definitive answer? I mean, now is the only time it will be clear. I'm guessing that if they missed out on all their other targets he would sill have a spot. But UM wouldn't know that until the end. And why offer him in the first place? That's a terrible argument. Every team offers way more prospects than they ever intend on taking and every team gives out 'non-committable' offers. Hoke did it. Except Hoke kept those kids at arms length, which Harbaugh doesn't seem to do.
Listening to Webb and Bacon on Friday and reading some other stuff, it seems like a lot of the early offers were like 'we like you, but we don't know if we'll have a spot for you. Sure you can commit to us, but keep your options open and take visits.' They discussed on Friday that letting some of these guys commit seemed to be a genuine effort on UM staff's part to help them out by letting them call themselves a UM commit when taking other visits; got them more attention, even if they weren't gaurenteed a spot at UM. Now the class is really taking shape, and they inform these guys that they definitely don't have the space. Bacon mentioned that there's frustration in Schembechler Hall about the bad PR because they were trying to do right by these guys by letting themselves call themselves commits. It's about the only difference between this staff and the last.
Also, I don't think Bo would be the best comparison when it comes to stuff like this. He was a well known player performance cutter and recruited a lot of players he never inteded on every playing.
January 26th, 2016 at 10:23 AM ^
I also had this thought. Weaver may be upset that he didn't know until now definitively...but when else would he know for sure? The race to NSD has a lot of moving parts in the final moments. If he knew it was a 50-50 proposition teh whole time (which it sounds like from reports he should have known), perhaps it just comes down to a recruit taking a 50% bet on Michigan and winding up being wrong at the last minute. Like getting 4 powerball numbers but missing out on the 5th number to win the jackpot (well, not the best analogy since you prolly still win a bunch of money in that case, but you get the point). Sometimes you get unlucky at a bad time. That's not all Harbaugh's fault though. Especially if he was clear from the start what this "committment" meant.
And for the love of God, this cannot be stated enough...Weaver himself said "lay off Harbaugh, guys." He's frustrated by the process, but not SPECIFICALLY angry at Harbaugh. This is significant for those who want to automatically assume the worst of the coaching staff.
January 26th, 2016 at 10:16 AM ^
It doesn't suddenly make us just like OSU or Bama, it doesn't make us like PSU, it doesn't make us suddenly lose who we want to be as a program that is above most when it comes to "doing things the right way", it doesnt;t mean we should have MORAL OUTRAGE at a level that some seem to suggest.
It is a bad look. It is not THAT bad. Even Weaver himself said "cool it on Harbaugh, guys". So maybe, just maybe, we should R-E-L-A-X. This isn't the most unethical thing a coach has ever done, not even in the same galaxy. Shoot, some (myself included) may think it's not unethical at all, especially if he knew in the fall his spot wasn't guaranteed. I do want Harbaugh to be better about the line of communication in the future, though. But that is minor.
January 26th, 2016 at 8:33 AM ^
From when he committed...
Following his visit, Weaver told The Michigan Insider, "Coach Jay told me that they are offering me as a big athlete," said Weaver. "They like me at both defensive end and tight end and I may even be both way guy. Coach Harbaugh was more of a conversation about us building a relationship between us two and getting me up to visit asap. He also told me how if I commit and happened to get hurt this season, then they would still fully honor my scholarship."
http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2015/06/2016_dlte_rashad_weav…
January 26th, 2016 at 9:42 AM ^
January 26th, 2016 at 9:48 AM ^
The key though is to pretend that its surely the latter so we can be outraged about it.
January 26th, 2016 at 8:17 AM ^
January 26th, 2016 at 8:32 AM ^
We have 300+ comments now based on the tweet of an understandably disappointed 17 year old. We have no objective facts whatsoever except for the bare fact of a decommitment. I think it is fair game to say "this doesn't look good" and that such tweets could hurt recruiting and that the situation that has given rise to them -- whatever it is -- needs to be addressed. But in my view it is not fair game to go further and say "this is shameful." Reserving that kind of judgment unless and until sufficient facts are known does not equate to "blindly following Harbaugh." It is instead an approach of patience, fairness and reason, one that prevails in most areas of educated life beyond the hot-takes milieu of the internet, and one grounded in the lessons of recent history. In the Swenson situation, many gave face-value credence to the young man's tweet, as many are doing now with Weaver's, and then actual facts surfaced in the ensuing days that cast that tweet in a very different light -- maybe not a perfect light, but a light very, very different from the initial damning reaction to the tweet.
January 26th, 2016 at 9:34 AM ^
bbbbbut I'm an outraged moral high-horse Michigan fan!!1! What am I to do???!!? Welp, back to comparing this to Penn State covering up child rape... (see below in thread if you don't believe me)
January 26th, 2016 at 8:42 AM ^
Outside fan base opinion:
- Are other coaches going to use this against you? Yup.
- Is it going to matter if you are competing for a NC every year? Nope.
- Is it a legal thing to do in the current state of recruiting? Yup.
- Is it morally or ethically cool? Nope.
- Are parents going to be turned off? Yup.
- Are 4 & 5 star parents and kids going to care? Nope.
- Is Michigan going to win a lot of games with Harbaugh? Yup.
The bottom line is that, and as much as you guys hate Valenti he is right, if you want to compete with Alabamas and OSUs some sketchy stuff is going to happen. You just have to roll with it and accept the winning. Or condemn the staff and distance yourself from it.
January 26th, 2016 at 8:51 AM ^
Re: "Is it morally or ethically cool? Nope."
What is the "it" we are referring to here? Just what we know from the tweet of the disappointed recruit? Or are there more actual facts that are known about his recruitment?
January 26th, 2016 at 9:25 AM ^
The process of gaining committments by lesser ranked recruits only to bump them out when a better alternative comes along. And its not just "A" recruit. Specifically speaking on Harbaugh here, he did this at Stanford as well. I am not condemning the practice or judging anyone here. College football has become a business and fan bases just want their teams to win.
January 26th, 2016 at 1:06 PM ^
First - I don't think anyone on the board disagrees with the idea that the staff should tell the kids they no longer have a spot as soon as they possibly can. But we have no information that they are not doing that. People are assuming that the staff knew months and months ago. I honestly do not think the staff knew in October, if they would have a spot for Weaver.
I am fine with this practice as long as there is transparency when the offer is extended. And I have absolutely no reason to think that there was any lack of clarity on the part of the staff when these kids were offered early. It seems clear that this staff tells kids to explore every option and to visit whatever school they want even after they "commit" to us. I suspect part of that is due to the fact that this staff tells kids no spot is guaranteed. I bet they even tell some of them to have a contingency plan in place and as things become clearer they will update them. The bottom line is the staff does not know if Weaver will have a spot until very close to signing day when the picture becomes clearer. I get that that sucks for Swenson and Weaver because they want to come to Michigan, but I do not think it indicates our staff doing anything unethical.
January 26th, 2016 at 9:54 AM ^
So, what are the ethical implications for a player (Jordan Elliot x 3, Michael Dwumfour, Antwaine Richardson, Nate Johnson, etc, etc) who decommit from a program less than a week before signing day? Tyus Battle decommitted from the basketball team after Michigan passed on other players, which had a significant effect on their class.
In the case of Rashad Weaver, he has been visiting other schools since November. This is a two-way street. If the players/parents/coaches have the ability to decommit at any time, with any amount of notice, why are the schools bound to stand by commitments indefinitely? Nobody knows, or will know, the entire story with any of these kids. We don't know what conversations took place between the school and commit, and we don't know what other dynamics are at play in these negotiations. This is a big boy college football program with big boy expectations. Feelings will be stepped on, everywhere. Valenti's favorite school gave the same treatment to a commit just last season. No difference, may have been worse.
January 26th, 2016 at 11:14 AM ^
All I am doing is laying out what is to be considered. Are you a traditional Michigan or Notre Dame (2 schools I feel do it the right way) fan or are you ready to swallow the SEC Shady 101 manual? Doesn't matter to me. And in regards to Valenti he has stated fully that he believes that MSU needs to do this in order to compete. The question then becomes, are the leaders of your school ready to jump as well?
January 26th, 2016 at 8:51 AM ^
January 26th, 2016 at 9:10 AM ^
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January 26th, 2016 at 8:57 AM ^
Aside from all of the stuff about recruiting/scholarships, I liked Weaver's game. I thought he could develop into a Wormley type player with a few years of whole milk and the weight room. He seemed to have one of those frames that could pack on another 30+ pounds and he looked to be pretty quick in the highlights I saw.
January 26th, 2016 at 9:09 AM ^
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January 26th, 2016 at 9:09 AM ^
Plain and simple, as soon as he knows he's not taking the kid, he owes it to him to tell him he's not taking him. Gives the kid time to find a landing spot, we get (hopefully) a better player, works out for all concerned. Jim Harbaugh doesn't need to play games to recruit outstanding kids.
January 26th, 2016 at 9:28 AM ^
"Plain and simple, as soon as he knows he's not taking the kid, he owes it to him to tell him he's not taking him." Right, and you don't know when or if this happened.
January 26th, 2016 at 9:41 AM ^
Yep, I think we assume he's solely a Plan B kid in case UM isn't in the running for Top 100 players at this point; but there's always the possibility that Weaver blows up during his senior season and becomes a high 4 star or something, and if so this would all be different right now. That isn't to agree with it, but it could be part of the reasoning.
January 26th, 2016 at 3:22 PM ^
Wow! You clearly have an inside view of Harbaugh's recruiting style. I have yet to hear exactly when he told commits to keep their options open. We have the kid's side, which is naturally going to be one sided. Or, we have unnamed sources who are saying the opposite. All that leaves us is our own opinions. I'm starting to look forward to Feb 3rd being over.
Btw, I kinda find it funny that this has become such a hot button. I have read numerous posts about how Beilein can't recruit. I guess if he ever lands a top 5 class we'll all boycott the games.
January 26th, 2016 at 9:09 AM ^
Harbaugh lets them take visits to whereever and size up their choices. He is doing the same on his end. On that level, I am fine with what he is doing. Risk assumption on both sides. Plus, as has been pointed out many, many times, we have no idea the communications along the line between the coaches and the player. There could be, and likely are things he is telling these kids the moment they accept an offer. They just might not hear it. So jumping to negative conclusions is foolish. Didn't we learn that lesson in the Swenson deal? And wasn't that way "worse" on the initial surface?
January 26th, 2016 at 9:54 AM ^
If there is some "conditional" aspect to these offers being extended to the likes of Weaver and Swenson, then these specific kids don't seem to have picked up on it.
Recruits most certainly will from this point forward. Any kid who attends a M camp this summer will be warned by friends, coaches, other schools, etc. that if Michigan offers a scholarship, you can take it with a grain of salt.
That doesn't sound like a good thing. But maybe it helps. Maybe Harbaugh is telling them up front that their offer is subject to continued athletic progression throughout the players' senior year coupled with a fall review. And maybe these kids are in a fog, picturing themselves in a winged helmet, nodding vigorously, "Yeah-yeah, Coach! I'm gonna work so hard!"
Well, now they all know what that means. It means, hey, you've got some raw tools that we like. If you can put it all together, we want you in this class. If you don't, we're going to keep looking and might just find a better fit. Be prepared.
I think we ALL will be from now on.
January 26th, 2016 at 9:15 AM ^
Weaver's tweets show a lot of class and maturity, and I wish him the best of luck.
I'd still MUCH rather see us telling the kids this in December than January, however.
January 26th, 2016 at 9:19 AM ^
This may have been covered, but there are sooooo many comments to wade through. I've read this post about the decommits of Harbaugh's first class at Stanford in 2010. Does anyone know if the recruit carousel continued in 2011 and 2012? If not, maybe Harbaugh has an intentional pattern. He fills his first class early on, as he did here at Michigan (I know this is technically his second class but he was here for what, a month before signing day last year), and then restructures it as he is able to build stronger relationships with "better" recruits. His subsequent classes are much more stable because he has had time to establish relationships with those recruits. Maybe we're freaking out about something that will be a one time problem.
January 26th, 2016 at 9:37 AM ^
2010 was his LAST year of a 4-year run at Stanford before jumping to S.F. So if your theory is that his recruiting stabilized as he got settled in, his Stanford experience wouldn't support that.
Whatever happened in '11 & '12 would have been on David Shaw's watch. By your theory, 2010 should have been Harbaugh's most stable recruiting class and ended up being his most volatile.
That leads me to believe this is exactly how he wants it to be.
January 26th, 2016 at 10:17 AM ^
I didn't put the years together. I guess it's my subconscious mind trying to make the best of this situation.
Edit: Or this means that it is a pattern and Jim is leaving for the NFL. Commence panic. Oakland is still in play.
/s/s/s/s/s/s/s/s/s/s/s/s
January 26th, 2016 at 9:27 AM ^
Speaking from experience this is typical recruiting. It's been going on forever but now that we have social media kids have an avenue to speak their mind to the general public. I have had many friends and including myself that were recruited out of high school by several schools and to get a phone call from that school saying either "we have no room for you", "we are going to move in another direction" or something to that effect. I hate it for this kid because i felt bad when i heard those words also but I understood that this is a business more then anything and a life lesson to not let anyone dictate your life. Even though this may hurt pick yourself back up and keep moving. If you feel as if they are losing out then reflect that in your actions and work that much more harder to prove them wrong in their decision. Wish this kid the best...but again this is recruiting! Go Blue!!
January 26th, 2016 at 5:35 PM ^
at MIchigan. But, again, we must move with the times or get left behind.
January 26th, 2016 at 9:34 AM ^
When OSU, MSU, Alabama, LSU, etc... start offering only 28 kids and signing those same 28 kids to LOI's, then we have a debate.
January 26th, 2016 at 1:06 PM ^
have made this foolish straw man argument above and others have debunked it.
No one is saying that any team should make x number of offers for x number of openings. Obviously, most recruits any team is interested in are going to decide to go elsewhere and so you need to give more offers than you have spots. If a spot fills up and the player hasn't committed yet, you pull the offer; no problem there. But if you make a commitable offer without qualifications (none of us know for certain whether or not that occurred here), and the player accepts, Michigan should honor its end of that commitment absent special circumstances.
January 26th, 2016 at 9:38 AM ^
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January 26th, 2016 at 9:50 AM ^
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January 26th, 2016 at 9:56 AM ^
and win a NC, you must recruit like them also. It all boils down to talent.
I will say that there should be more of a time frame in letting a kid know his chances are not good playing for Michigan.
January 26th, 2016 at 9:58 AM ^
but the "game" has changed dramatically.
January 26th, 2016 at 10:01 AM ^
Bo cut recruits all the time. I think you're thinking of "Jesus". What would he do?
January 26th, 2016 at 10:09 AM ^
Uh, I don't think so. If he offered and the kid simply wasn't good enough, he stayed on the team and had a 4 year schollie.
Sure, if the young man was a screw up, he would cut him.
January 26th, 2016 at 10:30 AM ^
Bo wasn't a saint. See Archibold Meatpants' post.
In fact, he offered LOTS of kids who he knew would never see the field, just to keep them off of other teams. The outrage!
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