OT: Why does MHSAA allow private schools to play against public schools in HS football playoffs?
November 30th, 2014 at 8:36 AM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 8:40 AM ^
You only need to look at Muskegon CC. I'm not an insider, but I imagine they're picking up numerous kids who would otherwise be back ups for the local Class A & B schools. Its really sort of a mockery that they compete with Division 8 public schools
November 30th, 2014 at 8:49 AM ^
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November 30th, 2014 at 9:11 AM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 9:42 AM ^
I assumed you weren't replying to me haha.
November 30th, 2014 at 4:01 PM ^
no, we don't.
90-95% of the kids on this most recent team are children of former mcc students or have been in the system since they were in first grade. unless we're really good at recruiting six-year-olds it's just not happening.
as to the 'geographic area' argument, that doesn't fly, either. schools of choice made that go away for public schools years ago.
November 30th, 2014 at 5:00 PM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 10:37 PM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 6:45 PM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 8:40 AM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 8:59 AM ^
When I lived in Michigan, it seemed like every single decision the MHSAA ever made was designed to screw a school, a coach or an athlete. They always seemed to interpret any rules question in the most severe way possible. I can't imagine them being much different now.
November 30th, 2014 at 8:42 AM ^
the only state like that.
There are many and this topic comes up every year
Haven't heard a reason why.
November 30th, 2014 at 9:10 AM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 8:44 AM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 8:47 AM ^
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November 30th, 2014 at 9:16 AM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 9:24 AM ^
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November 30th, 2014 at 9:36 AM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 11:17 AM ^
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November 30th, 2014 at 9:53 AM ^
Harrison, iirc, got mill Coleman from *way* out of district.
The idea that all public schools can't or don't recruit is false.
November 30th, 2014 at 10:36 AM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 12:31 PM ^
Inkster operated this way too, hence why Devin went there
November 30th, 2014 at 10:58 AM ^
and the recruiting part is the exception rather than the rule. From my understanding, alot of Michigan school systems have school of choice so students can live in one district and attend school in another. Also didn't Lawence Marshall switch schools to play with Malik McDowell. Isn't that the type of "recruiting" everyone in public schools complains about?
November 30th, 2014 at 3:06 PM ^
because of some issues at Detroit Loyola.
November 30th, 2014 at 4:04 PM ^
schools of choice is available to public schools. mona shores made a run to ford field due in large part to kids who came over from muskegon heights. every school in muskegon county got some of those kids.
November 30th, 2014 at 9:45 AM ^
False, it's expensive to go to MCC. Most kids that transfer into MCC transfer because of athletic reasons. Very rarely will someone transfer to MCC after going through public schools their whole life, unless they were kicked out of every other school in the area because of disciplinary reasons.
November 30th, 2014 at 10:07 AM ^
and that's why the private schools have scholarships--need-based and clearly athletically based. Country Day is one obvious example. The powerhouse Catholic and Christian schools do as well. Check out Orchard Lake St. Mary's football team and then remember where it is located. I can't speak personally about the west side, but I'd be shocked if it were different. The alternative is to presume Catholic kids are simply better football players, or the whole religious discipline canard. That said, I don't believe this applies to all private schools. I agree that Lansing Catholic does not have a reputation for recruiting. And while it has been very good under a very good coach, there have been many years when LCC was very bad.
November 30th, 2014 at 10:22 AM ^
Private schools do not have athletic scholarships, per se.
Most private schools have financial aid endowments that award need-based scholarships to admitted students. Students and families have to fill out forms similar to the college FAFSA.
Students are then awarded scholarships based on need. Of course, a lot of times, some superior athletes are also at the low end of the econonmic spectrum. And, here's where it gets murky, some kind of comittee may have to make decisions to "equal applicants" in deciding how every available financial need penny gets split up.
Since you mentioned DCC:
http://www.dcds.edu/uploaded/admissions/financing_a_country_day_educati…
If a top level athlete is transferring to DCC but comes from a well-off family, he/she is not getting an athletic scholarship.
November 30th, 2014 at 11:21 AM ^
From a few DCDS athletes I know, it is not uncommon for coaches to interact with the financial aid committee to ensure packages are sufficient to attract and maintain those athletes. The notion that financial aid is solely need-based is a farce.
November 30th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^
kinda not relevant to the athletes actually showing up from Detroit. Country Day was a joke athletic program before Division 1 athletes just "started showing up" like Webber. Just a coincidence, I think not. Yes, the need factor is the tool schools like Country Day use to improve their athletic programs.
November 30th, 2014 at 10:44 AM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 11:03 AM ^
I don't think MCC recruits at all. I never said that. I just think kid's parents push their kids to transfer so that they get exposed in sports. That's my opinion. You can disagree with me if you want. I just know of a few examples of kids transferring in to get college coaches to notice them because they weren't playing enough at the bigger schools.
November 30th, 2014 at 5:38 PM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 9:18 AM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 9:28 AM ^
Your premise is flawed. Michigan has school of choice so public schools are not locked into just the kids in their district. I know Holt went from decent athleticly to well above average after choice came in because of all the parents from lansing sending their kids to holt because it was close enough to drive but a lot better district.
November 30th, 2014 at 10:01 AM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 10:10 AM ^
but Holt hasn't been better since they started taking school of choice kids. The football program has actually been worse.
November 30th, 2014 at 10:31 AM ^
because everyone around them has gotten better through school of choice like Okemos.
They should also quit playing Rockford and Hudsonville as their two non-conference games every year. They're 1-9 in those games. Schedule someone else they can beat and they have 3 more playoff appearances in the last 5 years alone.
November 30th, 2014 at 12:10 PM ^
the local teams like they used to.--and Holt is the biggest school in the area (much bigger in most cases than the local schools they play). Same with basketball. Sexton is still very good in football. Okemos isn't benefitting athletically from schools of choice. It was marginally better this year--almost certainly because they have a better coach in Wallace.
November 30th, 2014 at 12:28 PM ^
This is pretty much the stock answer that all private school supporters give to justify what they do.
November 30th, 2014 at 12:32 PM ^
It's not a stock answer, it's true.
I went to public school my whole life. I now work at a private school. We don't recruit. At all, in no way.
I understand the perception - I had it when I was a kid and we had to go through private schools in districts and regionals, but the idea that there's constant recruiting going on - especially at established programs - is vastly overblown.
November 30th, 2014 at 1:37 PM ^
Whether or not they recruit kids is beside the point. They can draw from a much larger geographical area than the public schools, which is a major advantage in itself. And whether or not they recruit, it's a lot easier to get a kid to switch schools when it's a private school - the family doesn't have to move.
I went to a private school in the Detroit area. We had kids from practically every city in the tri-county area. Obviously, that was a potential advantage for us in sports. We weren't that gung-ho about sports glory, but there are some schools that are, and the athletes know about them.
November 30th, 2014 at 8:45 AM ^
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November 30th, 2014 at 8:45 AM ^
Private schools have a big advantage in HS football. They can go out and recruit the players they want. Funny how its the opoosite in College football
November 30th, 2014 at 8:51 AM ^
November 30th, 2014 at 8:54 AM ^
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November 30th, 2014 at 4:12 PM ^
Back in the 1970s MCC was a class B school competing in the Lake Michigan Athletic Conference, LMAC, with 5 class A schools (Grand Haven, Muskegon, Mona Shores, Traverse City and Benton Harbor) so they certainly were not 'ducking' anyone back then. They were good then too, as were Muskegon and TC. When I was a freshman I was a captain for that game, and when my co-captain and I went out for the coin toss we were dwarfed by the MCC captains. They took it to us.
They must be struggling financially if they have dropped clear down to Division 8 (which I presume is a small class D school from my day) from Class B.
November 30th, 2014 at 4:12 PM ^
Back in the 1970s MCC was a class B school competing in the Lake Michigan Athletic Conference, LMAC, with 5 class A schools (Grand Haven, Muskegon, Mona Shores, Traverse City and Benton Harbor) so they certainly were not 'ducking' anyone back then. They were good then too, as were Muskegon and TC. When I was a freshman I was a captain for that game, and when my co-captain and I went out for the coin toss we were dwarfed by the MCC captains. They took it to us.
They must be struggling financially if they have dropped clear down to Division 8 (which I presume is a small class D school from my day) from Class B.
November 30th, 2014 at 8:57 AM ^
happened, private schools would have to travel great distances to play their counterparts, the cost of which borne by tuition & donations, not taxpayer money like purblic schools. Also, some great rivalries would die.