Why Are People Defending Hoke?
I for the life of me don't see him staying..
From Marcus defending him and Jon Jansen defending him today on his podcast..
Is it the Carr faction grasping at straws??
On a side note did anyone listen to Marcus Ray this morning?
He basiclly called Hoke out when he was stating OSU out coached MSU..
Amazing.
November 12th, 2014 at 4:16 PM ^
I mean RR had a .250 winning percentage against the big ten but people flock to the board saying he was the best thing ever and is proving it at Arizona.
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November 12th, 2014 at 4:43 PM ^
Unlike RichRod, who was certain to end up at another major conference program, what school do you believe will be calling Hoke? It is possible that he could get another run in the MAC, but I suspect he ends up a dfensive coordinator or position coach hereonout. Its not as if Hoke was being courted by any name program other than Michigan.
November 12th, 2014 at 4:59 PM ^
I don't doubt Hoke will get offers from lower tier conferences. Regardless of what's happened at Michigan he has three conference coach of the year awards, graduates players and can recruit better than anyone else a MAC/C-USA or maybe Mountain West type program will be realistically able to get. He's also the type of genuinely good guy that everyone wants out of the face of their program.
The more interesting thing to me is what Hoke wants to do if/when he's fired. If I were fired from my dream job and didn't have to find another to keep food on the table I don't know how enticing hundred hour weeks and spending all that time on the road would be.
November 12th, 2014 at 8:26 PM ^
November 12th, 2014 at 11:40 PM ^
Ballin.
November 12th, 2014 at 5:00 PM ^
...it's extremely hard for people to admit they were mistaken.
November 12th, 2014 at 4:16 PM ^
I mean RR had a .250 winning percentage against the big ten but people flock to the board saying he was the best thing ever and is proving it at Arizona.
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November 12th, 2014 at 4:18 PM ^
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November 12th, 2014 at 4:19 PM ^
November 12th, 2014 at 4:41 PM ^
That he needs more time? Or purge the staff again?
November 12th, 2014 at 6:31 PM ^
November 12th, 2014 at 6:26 PM ^
November 12th, 2014 at 6:19 PM ^
We didn't give up a sack the last two weeks and our run blocking was decent as well. So, did we light up the scoreboard against IU and Northwestern?
November 12th, 2014 at 6:21 PM ^
Drop Darrell Funk and get someone that knows what their doing, so we can protect the QB and open holes for the RB.
We didn't give up a sack the last two weeks and our run blocking was decent as well. Yet, we didn't quite light up the scoreboard against IU and Northwestern.
November 12th, 2014 at 4:28 PM ^
Maybe because it doesn't do anyone good to do otherwise. Sure, he may already be gone, and guys like Ray and Jansen probably know that. But who does it help if they are jumping on the pile as well?
We've already seen what the negativity, rumors and uncertainty surrounding Hoke can do. UM has lost a handful of important recruits, and some of the remaining commits are probably on the fence. Perhaps showing commits that the fans and former players don't support who is currently leading the team isn't a great look.
I doubt that former players supporting Hoke is going to save his job in anyway. But we already saw what can happen in a program when they are actively and openly against the current coach. Sometimes its better to put a smile on and make sure that the necessary changes are made behind the scenes than to give impressionable people reasons to think poorly about the program. You can dislike Hoke and hope he is gone, I do (hope he is gone), but its maybe a touch self-serving for anyone with a voice to say so.
November 12th, 2014 at 4:31 PM ^
Did anyone see the ND game - what happens when a QB makes poor decisions repeatedly in a game against good opposition? ND has developed players, gone to an NC, whipped up on us, etc.
I love DG as the teammate, the competitor, the human being. But I think his decision-making has repeatedly crippled the offense. What would UM's record be if our offense mirrored our defense? 9-1? And it all starts with having a solid leader at the most important offensive position - the position that decides when and where to put the ball. The leader.
I support Hoke because I bet UM will be considerably better next year with a different QB running the offense, a couple of solid running backs, a better O-line, and an offense that mirrors the defense - all of which is not only probable but likely IMHO. And in two years, if a good QB becomes a very good one (and we have every reason to believe that Nuss can make that happen), then an experienced Michigan team will contend for a championship.
Hoke is not the problem - he relied on Borges and now relies on Nuss. Nuss is not the problem. He had little choice but to stick with DG and he simply could not get it done this year. Some writer recently wrote that the failure to develop a quarterback may doom Hoke. It may, but I'm not at all convinced that any other coach gets DG to make consistently good decisions.
November 12th, 2014 at 4:47 PM ^
I bet UM will be considerably better next year with a different QB running the offense, a couple of solid running backs, a better O-line, and an offense that mirrors the defense - all of which is not only probable but likely IMHO
You must be at the wrong team's blog, because there's no evidence that any of that will happen. The other QBs have looked much worse than Gardner and there's no signs that will change, our running backs are mediocre at best with little to no big-play ability, our O-line is getting better but still isn't actually good (plowing crappy d-lines isn't the standard), and I don't know what this "offense mirrors the defense" nonsense even means.
I'm not at all convinced that any other coach gets DG to make consistently good decisionsThen why do coaches even exist if they have no impact?
November 12th, 2014 at 5:15 PM ^
Hoke is not the problem - he relied on Borges and now relies on Nuss.
That means Hoke is the problem. The head coach is accountable for who he relies on.
Some writer recently wrote that the failure to develop a quarterback may doom Hoke.
Hoke has absolutely nothing to do with QB development. That was/is on Nuss and Borges. People who, you pointed out, Hoke relies on blindly.
The fact that Hoke talks about relying on winning the war in the trenches and we've seen, at best, a slightly-better-than-average DL in year four, and absolute terrible development of the OL (because of his reliance on another coach, Funk, who has failed to show any value) shows that if he isn't THE problem, he is a very large piece of several problems.
DG's confidence got destroyed last year. And DG doesn't open up holes on the OL or miss holes while running the ball. DG doesn't blow pass coverage deep. This team's problems go much deeper than a QB, and Hoke will be the first person to tell you that he is the one accountable for all of that.
The reality is that the last 2 1/2 seasons, we've seen M football be 15-14 under Hoke, while attaining some absolutely horrendous and infamous achievements. A healthy Denard Robinson-led offense was the major factor that kept Hoke above infamy and mediocrity. That is now clear.
November 12th, 2014 at 5:27 PM ^
November 12th, 2014 at 5:55 PM ^
I support Hoke because I bet UM will be considerably better next year with a different QB running the offense, a couple of solid running backs, a better O-line
Were you alive for the MInnesota game?
November 12th, 2014 at 4:43 PM ^
Have you ever heard of the concept known as "a difference of opinion?"
Now that's amazing.
November 12th, 2014 at 4:48 PM ^
But opinions can be uninformed, wrong, and stupid, and it's perfectly legitimate to ask why people would hold these kinds of opinions.
November 12th, 2014 at 5:55 PM ^
Opinions are different than facts.
They can be based on subjective feelings without regard to the facts.
And BTW, I was not criticizing the OP, just stating a fact generally know as common sense.
November 12th, 2014 at 5:01 PM ^
For one he is a tremendously likeable guy. You have to realize that Hoke was a part of the program for many years, and many of those guys defending him have personal ties to him.
November 12th, 2014 at 5:12 PM ^
Everyone says he is likable, but I have yet to hear anyone articulate what makes him likable.
I've never met him in person, so I don't really care, but to be he's not likable.
He can't articulate thoughts, looks like a dufus with the 'no headset' thing, poorly dressed, poor physical shape, evidently doesn't notice when his QB is concussed, won't answer questions during pressers, talks shit about ND and OSU and then gets smoked by them, apologizes to MSU, covers up for Gibbons and Lewan....need I continue to coaching an inept football team?
So what exactly is likable about the guy?
November 12th, 2014 at 5:21 PM ^
That is a remarkably stupid(and shallow) characteristic to judge a person's character/likeabiltiy.
Mark Dantonio is in fine physical trim, yet is a compelte douchebag. So is Urban Meyer. According to you these men must be "likeable" because they physically fit.
November 12th, 2014 at 5:59 PM ^
I think you are having a hard time distinguishing between Hoke as a person and a football coach. You admit that you have never met him (and I assume, therefore, you never played for him, etc.), and thus the basis for your opinion on his "likeability" is derived solely from his position as a football coach, i.e. as a public figure. In effect, you admit that you have no basis to judge him as a person.
He probably has personal characteristics (loyalty, reliability, jocularity, etc.) that make Brady Hoke, the person, likeable.
Don't feel bad, though, you are not alone in conflating these things. Many of Hoke's defenders similarly have a hard time setting aside their fealty and personal affection towards him and judging his body of work as a head coach at Michigan.
November 12th, 2014 at 5:05 PM ^
how do you think calling for his head would go over with anyone?
November 12th, 2014 at 5:06 PM ^
Unreal that we have these threads every day or two.
Watch some quality football sometime. I was at the LSU-Alabama game last weekend. Then watch Michigan. Michigan isn't even in the same galaxy, and yet there's discussion about keeping Hoke? C'mon man.
The people defending Hoke now are probably the guys who can't admit their wife is cheating on them despite her coming home late, not answering your calls, being freshly showered, and not banging you ever. Open your eyes.
November 12th, 2014 at 6:27 PM ^
November 12th, 2014 at 9:59 PM ^
How many guys with freshly showered never-banging-them wives do you know?
November 12th, 2014 at 5:41 PM ^
In every game except Appalachian State, Devin Gardner has made huge mistakes, turnovers, that have caused us to lose or put us in a position to lose. The fact is that Devin Gardner has turned out to be a bad quarterback. It's not overly surprising considering his path but it's just the truth. I don't expect Hoke offenses to put up tons of points, I expected great defense and a safe offense. The defense is pretty much there, we haven't had a quarterback that can run an offense like that yet.
Not saying DG is the only reason we are 5-5 and I'd say even if Devin turned the ball over half as much we'd still be 7-3 at best, but most of our issues stem from Devins tendency to turn the ball over.
November 12th, 2014 at 5:51 PM ^
myth? The defense has consistently been shredded by good teams and all--too-frequently mediocre QBs. It also does not generate very many turnovers or sacks--except when up against horrid injury plagued offensive lines.
The offense's problems are mediocre line play, running backs who move with all the swiftness of inebriated rhinos, and receivers who treat the ball like a hot potato. Oh and they rarely throw the ball to their talented tight end.
November 12th, 2014 at 6:03 PM ^
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November 12th, 2014 at 6:39 PM ^
Defensive FEI rankings for Michigan through the years:
- 2007: 11
- 2008: 44
- 2009: 60
- 2010: 109
- 2011: 16
- 2012: 26
- 2013: 37
- 2014: 35
By Carr-era standards this isn't a good defense. But by the standards set at Michigan over the last decade it's OK.
November 12th, 2014 at 7:42 PM ^
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November 12th, 2014 at 7:44 PM ^
...but the Fremeau data starts in 2007.
November 12th, 2014 at 7:55 PM ^
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November 12th, 2014 at 11:24 PM ^
November 13th, 2014 at 12:07 AM ^
I'm not sure why a bad offense makes you want to shorten the game more than a bad defense would.
Reasons for a slow tempo that make sense to me (there are probably more):
- You aren't as good as the opposition.
- You have a lead.
- You have depth issues.
- You have conditioning issues. (This could be related to #3.)
- You have injury issues.
- You have issues getting plays communicated.
I've been thinking #5 has had a lot to do with it this year. Gardner in particular is obviously dinged; it seems to get worse as the game goes on, and making the game short means less deterioration in his condition. It's why I thought the decision to run out the clock before the half last week seemed obvious--he'd struggled in the prior possession, missing a throw badly that he didn't step into, and it seemed like 20 minutes of rest was a good idea.
November 13th, 2014 at 12:46 AM ^
November 13th, 2014 at 1:03 AM ^
November 13th, 2014 at 1:27 AM ^
November 12th, 2014 at 9:11 PM ^
November 12th, 2014 at 10:31 PM ^
November 12th, 2014 at 5:46 PM ^
A great position coach may not translate to great head coach.
I give Brady a lot of credit because he has already achieved so much personally.
And I believe we all like him.
The Devil is in the detail or lack of detail. I don't recall Bo Schembechler making some of the mistakes Brady has made in game. For example, no time out to bail out your QB at a critical time in game, no impactful strategy changes mid game, and no clear strategic discussions post game about the gambles he made and the reasoning behind them. Am I wrong here?
Why are people defending Brady? One word answer: Loyalty
I respect them for that.
Another poster, I apologize for not remembering who, posted that there will likely have to be a change because if there's not ticket sales will suffer immensely. And ijohnb above made a great point when he stated "He is not going to be fired for the hell of it. He is going to be fired if the guy is already lined up."
I believe the answer is somewhere in between. We need to make sure we get the right guy in here so the program will get on the right track and ticket sales will improve immensely.
Hail.
November 12th, 2014 at 5:56 PM ^
I'm not entirely interested in the emotional opinions of former players when there's all this damning data around to torpedo their appeals all to hell. Brian has done a great job explaining this each week with the UFRs. How can you argue with people who won't accept facts? Exactly. Complete waste of time.
Michigan is likely going to finish this season 5-7. This compares poorly to four year starts by Bo: 38-6, Mo: 36-9-3 and Lloyd: 39-11. Hoke will be 31-20 for his 4 years at Michigan, except unlike Bo, Mo, Lloyd adn RichRod, Hoke's 4 teams have regressed in wins and performance each and every year.
Michigan got blown out by Notre Dame, Utah, Minnesota and Michigan State. Ohio is very likely to do the same since they are ranked 4th in the nation in scoring after facing MSU on the road. None of these games were, or will be, remotely competitive. Michigan barely defeats scholarship-poor Penn State (18-13) and one of the worst Northwestern teams in years (10-9). Maryland is terrible at football by any standard since losing their leading rusher, but somehow a Terrapins win is a realistic possibility. Could you imagine if Michigan had to play Wisconsin or Nebraska this year?
So frankly, I don't care about the support or defense arguments for Brady Hoke. The last meaningful Michigan victory was 2011 vs. Nebraska. It's been a horrible drought ever since. What helps me fall asleep at night is the fact that there's no fucking way Hoke is going to be granted another year to take MIchigan to 4-8 in front of 80,000 fans on Saturday afternoons.
So it turns out that Michigan is just like everybody else in college football in that it has made disasterous hiring decisions - and probably will continue to do so. I think Schlissel is a very smart guy, and Hackett too, but I'm skeptical that their selection will make Michigan football competitive. Brady Hoke was one of the worst hiring decisions ever made in college football. This was known by rational people following the program well before he was hired.
I think it doesn't matter, because like Oklahoma, LSU, Auburn, USC, Alabama, Notre Dame, eventually it will become necessary for Michigan to correct itself and hire wisely for the long-term.
November 12th, 2014 at 6:26 PM ^
2011 Nebraska was the last meaningful win? Not to defend Hoke too much but that's over the top. Surely 2011 OSU, 2012 MSU and 2013 ND count. The first two ended long losing streaks against rivals and the latter was against a team coming off a 12-1 season.
November 12th, 2014 at 6:59 PM ^
but defeating 16th ranked 2011 Nebraska 45-17 was Brady Hoke's last great, decisive win over a ranked football team.
2012 MSU finished 7-6, unranked. Win was significant only for ending drought.
2011 Ohio finished 6-7, unranked. Win was significant only for ending drought. Scandal-ridden Ohio roster and dead-man-walking coach caveats apply.
2013 ND finished 9-4, finished #20 but lost to unranked Pitt and faced 6-6 Rutgers in their bowl game.
All of 2011 Nebraska's four losses came against ranked opponents and finished #24.
November 12th, 2014 at 7:33 PM ^
Michigan's most recent wins over EOS top-20 teams (Massey):
- 1/1/08 vs. Florida
- 9/23/06 vs. Wisconsin
- 9/16/06 @ Notre Dame
- 10/15/05 vs. Penn State
- 9/25/04 vs. Iowa
- 11/22/03 vs. Ohio State
- 10/12/02 vs. Penn State
- 9/29/01 vs. Illinois
- 1/1/00 vs. Alabama
- 11/13/99 @ Penn State
- 9/25/99 @ Wisconsin
- 11/14/98 vs. Wisconsin
- 11/7/98 vs. Penn State
- 1/1/98 vs. Washington State
- 11/22/97 vs. Ohio State
- 11/23/96 @ Ohio State
- 9/14/96 @ Colorado
- 11/25/95 vs. Ohio State
- 8/26/95 vs. Virginia
Carr did this 19 times in 12 seasons, including his very last game in charge...and it hasn't happened in the seven seasons since.
(Moeller had 7 in 5 seasons; Bo had 28 in 21.)