Mailbag: Not Quite All About Firing Everyone
I got a pile of email, so this is really long and still leaves out a number of missives. Apologies if yours wasn't selected.
A fairly comprehensive coaching-firing email.
I got a lot, obviously. This one touches all of the bases.
Brian,
I'm currently operating under the following two assumptions:
1) Brady Hoke is done unless Michigan at least wins at least the Big Ten East with wins over both rivals on the road, which currently seems about as likely as two nuclear missiles turning into a sperm whale and a bowl of petunias and one of them telling our coaching staff how to coach offensive football before they plummet to earth.
I don't think it is that cut and dried yet. If Michigan goes 7-1 in the Big Ten with a loss to MSU and ends up 9-3 and going to the Citrus Bowl or something, that is a weird way to get to what people expected before the season. I think any 8-4 record is a hard sell that might induce a decision that we all hate and 7-5 is 100% dumped. (This is not what I'd do; unless he runs the table before the OSU game I would give him the Earl Bruce pre-Game firm handshake. This is what I'm guessing the athletic director would do.)
But yeah, going 7-1 in the Big Ten seems about as likely as the bowl of petunias thing. I am thinking "oh no, not again," tho—we solved it! The bowl of petunias is a Michigan fan.
2) That Dave Brandon will make a comically inept hire of either a warmed over retread with a tenuous connection to the past (Cam Cameron!), a mediocre young coordinator with a tenuous connection to the past (Scott Loeffler!), or a flashy idiot who must be great in interviews even though he's a moron coaching a football team (Lane Kiffin!)
Given that, how long would it take to set up and execute a reasonable search committee for a new athletic director? And is there any chance at all the university leadership acts decisively to remove the fundamental problem? It seems like the answer to those questions are too long and no at the moment.
The timing is bad. Schlissel just got in and has no frame of reference, so is he going to make a serious move? Does he even care about it, or is it something that's 11d on the agenda at a random meeting? And is he going to do it now-now-now, like he'd probably have to?
The answers to these questions are probably no. I think we're stuck with Brandon. If Michigan did make a move now there are a number of obvious candidates: Jeff Long is Arkansas's AD, Brad Bates is Boston College's, Warde Manuel is UConn's.
Long hired Bobby Petrino when Petrino bugged out on the Falcons, and then replaced him with Bret Bielema. Both are impressive hires from a football perspective and odious from a "you want me to root for THIS guy?" perspective. Manuel hired Turner Gill at Buffalo, was handed interim basketball coach Kevin Ollie (who then hired himself by winning a lot), and executed a logical search when UConn replaced Paul Pasqualoni, first trying to grab Pat Narduzzi and then going with Notre Dame DC Bob Diaco.
And while we're contemplating the fundamental horror of being Notre Dame, is Hoke Davie, Willingham, or Weis? Seems to me he recruits like Weis and coaches like Willingham, which is somehow worse than either of those guys. Or at least more frustrating.
Davie. His recruiting is better than Willingham and he's not a deliberately offensive, off-putting goon. Davie was an amiable man who couldn't organize a footbaw team.
Of course the real problem is that there really doesn't seem to be an upwardly mobile candidate at the right level to actually go after. I mean obviously you'd take a shot at Sumlin, but no way A&M doesn't match that offer. Which sort of leaves you hoping the Ravens' front office semi-criminal dickishness makes John Harbaugh quit and then you hope you can outbid like 15 NFL teams who would immediately jump at the shot to hire him. Not a great situations. Only name I can maybe come up with at a realistic level is Craig Bohl, who is unfortunately 56 and in the first year of his new job at Wyoming. That juggernaut he built on North Dakota State is impressive though.
Basically I think we're doomed. Are we doomed?
Andrew
It looks fairly doomy, but we were all laughing about Ohio State's coaching search when they settled on the previously-obscure Jim Tressel. There are guys out there. You mention Bohl, who I have also wikipedia-stalked to my disappointment. Michigan may as well take a run at Sumlin types, but realistically any SEC school is going to match the money, and if you're crushing it in the SEC what is the motivation to move?
There is a name out there that I think might work: Dan Mullen. He made a previously awful team competitive in the brutal SEC. Nobody's been able to win much of anything at Mississippi State in 20 years—Jackie Sherrill had one ten-win season in 1999 and was otherwise bouncing between 8 and 3 wins. The Bulldogs have gone from winning a quarter of their SEC games under Sylvester Croom to winning 42%, and they've gone to four straight bowls for the first time ever. That's a James Franklin-like resume.
Mullen grew up in Pennsylvania, so he'll have some useful recruiting contact, he's 42—good long term upside if he works out—and he was Urban Meyer's OC for Florida's run of dominance there. He just beat LSU on the road. If Mississippi State goes 9-3 or better this year he'll be a very attractive candidate.
The problem is that Florida is going to be looking as well and I have bad feels about competing with them given our current situation and Florida's proximity to bounteous talent.
[After THE JUMP: more stuff like this, and an Ondre Pipkins Q.]
Transition costs?
Jake Fisher would have been nice.
Brian,
Just read your dispirited post. Yeah, when you get older you don't mope for weeks on end (as I did forty years ago).
My biggest concern if there's a change is that the one thing Brady has done well is recruit. I'm surprised you haven't talked yet about the effect of DMW on that. Who would decommit? Who would transfer?
Just wondering.
Best,
Jeff
Transitions have costs. The severity depends on how different the incoming regime is from the outgoing one, and especially just how bad it had gotten under the last guy. Charlie Strong is booting half his team because they aren't meeting expectations. That's because Mack Brown hung on so long he was the weird uncle instead of a font of authority. A combination of something similar with Carr and the abrasiveness of a few guys on Rodriguez's staff made that transition similarly painful.
There are better transitions out there, though. There's a lot of momentum towards continuing your career instead of bugging out. For one, you have to sit out most of the time. Roster attrition would likely be a few guys who don't fit in the new coach's plans and a few guys who were going to leave anyway because they can't find the field.
Recruiting is trickier, but even there the momentum towards a school is usually enough to hold things together. When Carr retired Michigan only lost one commit, that a pocket QB who ended up at Iowa. Rodriguez's dismissal was worse as Michigan not only lost a couple kids they had committed but whiffed on various touted Southerners they were reputed to lead for. (How much that would have mattered when Clemson came calling I don't know.) Worse yet for Michigan during the second transition was the struggles Rodriguez had; Hoke had to fill ten spots in about three weeks, with poor results, and the guys already in the class were dodgy.
Michigan's situation this year is different. They have a small class entirely comprised of four star kids and a kicker that's three or four guys from being full. If Michigan does make a change at the end of the regular season they'll probably lose a couple guys, retain most of the existing class, and fill in the remainder with okay prospects they've actually had time to vet. It'll be a hit. This is a good year to make a transition from a roster standpoint, at least.
TRUST NO ONE
Hey Brian,
I know you'll be getting alot of "next coach" questions for the rest of the year, but I have a little different angle on the issue. As I'm sure you know, Travis Haney reported that there are big changes coming for the top guys at M. Gregg Henson also speculated on the same.
My question to you is how do some of these program outsiders get their sources? My general rule is to wait until MGoBlog or Sam Webb confirms something before I get excited, but the Haney thing at least sounds legit. Are your/Webb's sources different or better than the national writer sources? I want to know whose reports to take seriously.
Thanks, Brian.
The Haney thing doesn't read like reporting to me. It reads like a guy drawing obvious-seeming conclusions from the outside:
Quarterback Devin Gardner will be the first change for the Michigan Wolverines.
Coach Brady Hoke will be the second, and probably by December.
Athletic director Dave Brandon will be the next, and probably shortly after Hoke.
It's far from certain that Gardner is replaced, he doesn't say he's talked to anyone, he uses one canned presser quote later in the piece. File that under bloviation.
Henson does say he's got sources that claim the whole enterprise is about to get fired, so that's more interesting. I am still leery of it because as I've mentioned before I've heard the same thing—discontent, Brandon gone within a year—for a couple years now without actually seeing something come to fruition. I've heard that the Regents are against him (not that there's much question about that after the fireworks vote), I've heard that he's a hurdle to getting a true A-list guy, heard that Harbaugh loathes him,
The thing about sources is sometimes they're not right, and minds can and will change as we go along here. The key facts are the thoughts inside someone's head, and sources do not know that.
As for my process for dealing with information: it is mostly a combination of internet spidey-sense and guys who have emailed me a few times, have been correct in the past, and offer things up that they believe to be true. It is not Journalist Level Sourcing, but I try to tell you the context whenever I relay something so you can judge the information on its own merits.
In most things you should listen to Sam, because Sam is plugged in to the point where he can't say half of what he knows. You have to read between the lines sometimes because he is in a spot where his access depends on his discretion, but if you get a vibe from him there is a reason for that vibe. In this specific situation I don't know how much is going to get to him because, again, the only things to know are the ones in the murky depths of someone's brain. A lot easier to know that Desmond Morgan's hand is in a cast than what might be going on inside Brandon's head.
Regard any other sports talk radio information-type substance with extreme dubiousness. Outside of the friendly confines of WTKA, radio is worthless for news. That goes triple for some yob in East Lansing asserting that Greg Schiano is the next guy. Because he's the dude who will get the news first. Okay buddy.
Trust me because I don't ask you to trust me, and trust Sam because he's connected, and ignore all radio reports.
Why care?
Hey Brian,
Here's a question for you: Why should we - the fans - care?
My fiancé and I are both alums. We have fandom endurance badges from Northwestern @ Michigan in 2009, and Michigan @ Northwestern last year. Her family has had season tickets forever. We're getting married in the Michigan Union. Last night we were talking about our plans for Saturday and I mentioned that we should figure out what time the game is. She asked me "Do we care?" Well, at this point - why should we?
The players don't seem to (just show the clip of DG getting pummeled and no one running over, contrasted with the Eagles defense of their QB) the coaches don't seem to (How about Brady's "Were a good football team" vs. Pat Fitzgerald's "No Shit") and we know the AD doesn't care about the actual product on the field or the fans ourselves - how about the announced 103,000 - not capacity. For all the talk about leadership the most fired up we've seen anyone in the two losses is Mattison and Hoke yelling at each other. We know leaders like Molk wouldn't have let DG pick himself up after a hit like that... is there any chance that this team/coaching staff/program show a sign of life? Do THEY care? Should we anymore?
When's basketball season?
JeepinBen
I can't tell you that you should right now. It's a struggle for me to open up the video file and spreadsheet this week, let me tell you. I'm finding it hard to find the thing that Michigan stands for that I'd care about anymore, it's all buried under athletic department gaffe after athletic department gaffe and the team losing like it does. I'm not going to wave a flag for graduating kids and being a positive force in their lives for all the Chris Rock reasons you can imagine.
All I can say is that this is a community still and that membership means putting your eyes on the thing even if you don't particularly want to. It's more about your interaction with the guys you know who share your disease. It's the us, not the them. That's all I've got.
Wither Pipkins?
i'm sure you have and endless array of FIRE HOKE questions and HARBAUGH!!!! questions, and the like, but here's one totally unrelated and about the defense, which actually is performing quite well:
why doesn't pipkins play more? he plays well every snap he's on the field. he takes on doubles very effectively and gets good push. i can't understand why he's playing behind Mone.
thanks.
Evan
He's probably not as good as Glasgow. We are talking about a team that just gave up 3.3 YPC to a rush offense that was quite good a year ago, that crushed Notre Dame's ground game, that is currently ninth in the country in YPC allowed. Glasgow's been excellent in the three games I've reviewed. Pipkins has not been as consistently impactful. He just got beat out.
Toughness deficit inherent?
Brian,
We've all witnessed a severe lack of toughness, both physical and mental during the Hoke era. There's also a visible lack of passion, energy, and aggressiveness on both sides of the ball. Do you feel the recruiting profile has played a part in this? Is Michigan just not recruiting aggressive, hungry, and competitive athletes? Yeah, they're high academic kids with high talent rankings, but do the majority of them have passive personalities that show up on the field? Does Michigan's low-key, laid back family atmosphere attract kids that maybe aren't as competitive and focused on football? We've heard stories of Urban's competitive environment, and we know Franklin and Narduzzi are near maniacs. Peppers may be an exception as far as competitiveness and being a leader, but I just feel like most of our guys are "nice kids" who are more comfortable being passive in a laid back environment.
Thanks,
Dave
You know me: I'm more likely to cite someone for stupidity than a lack of toughness. I only bring up the toughness thing when gathering up for a super-sick burn in re: Michigan's total lack of the primary quality Hoke wants to instill.
If I believe in toughness it's an ability to keep your head on straight when put in a bad situation, which is related to intelligence and organization, two qualities Michigan is also sorely lacking. What's especially galling about Michigan throwing ten guys out for a punt and running the clock down in their "hurry-up" is that this should be a position of advantage for Michigan, what with recruiting only guys with real course work and making intelligence a priority. Instead Michigan feels like a dumb team comprised of smart guys, and that goes back to the cat-herder in chief.
All these guys are driven. You don't get to a college football field, let alone stay on one, without going through a severe winnowing process. I find it unlikely Michigan's getting only the soft kids that everyone in the country is offering.
Meanwhile, what is the stereotypically toughest program in America right now? Stanford. It's not fate that Michigan will be flouncing through daisies as long as they recruit guys who have the ability to play football and take tests.
Well…
Are you also getting the idea that Brady Hoke and Greg Mattison spend most of the practice week playing euchre?
Maybe shots at the DC that hasn't seen a team pick up three hundred yards on his defense yet are not so warranted.
Brian-Is it too late for John Bacon to write "Four and No More!" before the season is finished?
Lin
Bacon says his working title is "fourth and twelve play action," and that he's running it by Dave. (This is the least true sentence ever.)
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:09 PM ^
I'm not saying he's not a good coach (I think it's too soon to tell), but can we really just ignore the fact that part of the reason he's at Michigan is that Saban didn't particularly want him anymore?
September 23rd, 2014 at 6:06 PM ^
Michigan went and got him and paid big time money for a coordinator. he was mentioned as hc candidate when we were all euphoric he got hired. REMEMBER?
No way you can blame this one him yet. He did not get stupid in one month.
If Brandon does not go, nuss could be waiting in the wings. Once again, not my first choice, but the board is delusion if we think he won't get a strong sniff.
No (SOLO) head coaching experience. I guess Lloyd Carr never happened?
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:05 PM ^
Our offense has scored 1 field goal against the 2 teams that have a pulse. Why would you promote that guy? Because he kept the offense of the best team in the county going and then was asked to leave?
September 24th, 2014 at 1:24 AM ^
You might want to read his resume. It's not like Alabama was his first job.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:16 PM ^
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:37 PM ^
The only way that I see Nussmeier being a candidate is if:
1. Hoke gets fired
2. Nussmeier gets an "audition"
3. He successfully completes that audition
4. A signficantly improved offense is part of the success
5. He scores an upset over at least one rival
I am on the record saying that I want #1 and #2 to happen. It's a long shot but it's worth a try.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:07 PM ^
Maybe Mattison is sitting at a table across from Hoke each evening, his game notes and playbook set before him, with Nuss to his right, Fred Jackson to his left and he keeps getting Euchre hands thrown in his face. He's grunting "I'm workin' here, boys." And the cards just keep flying.
Maybe that's what he meant when he said "you should see us play Euchre."
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:04 PM ^
I mean, I know you will say his Rivals/ 247/ ESPN/ Scout rankings are high, but when kids like Pipkens are beaten out by walk-ons, maybe kids just get a star bump because of the Michigan name, which makes it look like we recruit well.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^
Recruiting rankings are based on MUCH more than whether or not Michigan is trying to sign certain kids. Hoke is very good at convincing players that everyone thinks are very good to come to UM. What seems to be happening (which happens at all schools, but most of us don't follow them enough to notice it consistently) is that some of these higher-ranked kids aren't panning out. It might be player development, bad luck, injuries, whatever. But Hoke is a good recruiter, or at least his staff is capable of being good recruitiers, and there is no way even the most disappointed fans can spin the past couple of years on that front.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:13 PM ^
That's fair that not many of our star recruits have panned out yet, but the thing about the Michigan bump and self-fulfilling recruiting success isn't true. Our sleepers get Michigan bumps, but for the most part the blue chippers are blue chippers before they commit.
It's not just the recruiting services either. If you look at offer sheets, if we were off on evaluating these guys, so were many many other successful coaches.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:57 PM ^
For every guy like Pipkins (who had a terrible knee injury, remember?) at whom you can point as underachieving, there is a 3 star Frank Clark or Willie Henry who has shown he can play. Or a preferred walk on Glascow. You could argue that the staff has done a really good job of identifying unheralded kids who are contributors. Every school has five stars who don't live up to their hype--and we had our share before Hoke arrived. E.g., Kelly Baraka, Kevin Grady, Will Campbell.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:09 PM ^
RE: Mullen, my concern has always been about the SEC-ness of recruiting and how that might not mesh well with UM. You look at Miss. St. and you see a program that isn't afraid to over-recruit in a way that just doesn't work at UM, and so I'm a little dubious. His teams are very good considering, though, so certainly wouldn't mind them giving him a look.
Regarding toughness, I'm with you about it being intelligence and organization. I hate when people question the "toughness" of players because it reads like a bunch of couch-sitters reliving their HS football days and implicitly taking swipes at the players who are and will always be better at the sport they play than you ever were. It's like when people complain about NBA players looking like they are "loafing" on the court until you realize they are jogging faster than most people can run.
Michigan's performance on the field is due to preparation issues, not a lack of "heart" or "passion" for the program or performance on the field. They aren't "passive"; they are beaten down by years of losing and leadership that has its head up its ass for long stretches. The defense, coached by a guy who knows what he is doing, sure seems to be playing hard and performing.
Also, can that stupid "nobody stood up for Gardner" crap stop? What happened with Philly-Washington was during the middle of the quarter, and resulted in penalties and everyone kind of looking like an ass. The only thing UM players could have done in that instance is start brawling with ND players at the end of a 31-0 loss, which is not the visual, nor the response, I want out of college kids trying to represent their university. If a bunch of millionaires want to do that and question each other's manhood, by all means do it. But saying "be more like the NFL" is something no college fan should be imploring of its team right now.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:26 PM ^
It doesn't seem as though Mullen is oversigning like Alabama does though if you look back at the last several classes. His classes all seem to be in the low 20's as far as numbers. He has a few guys not making it to campus, but that might just be the general issue of kids not qualifying.
September 23rd, 2014 at 2:49 PM ^
I'll agree it isn't Ole Miss level, so maybe I'm conflating the two.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:56 PM ^
another concern re mullen is that we don't have a single QB on the roster who can run his system. it would be another RR like transition. and look, i still think RR should've been given a 4th year, but fans have to be willing to swallow that kind of transition and i doubt many are.
September 23rd, 2014 at 3:03 PM ^
I think Morris could be a decent fill-in. He's got decent enough wheels and can throw, and Mullen seems like a guy who could make it work with the talent coming in. At the very least, he'll be less stubborn.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:10 PM ^
But I also can't believe Hoke is insisting on "HUDDLE UP!". Of all the things a cursory coach like Hoke would be nosy about and insist upon on offense, why would "huddle up!" be so goddammned critical for him?
Makes zero sense.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:16 PM ^
You're right about both. Nuss is not happy with the pace, but he's less happy with the execution. Until that part starts getting better, he's hesitant to add even more pressure on the offense. He said as much in this week's presser.
I agree with you that Hoke can't simultaneously be the guy that is so hands off and knows nothing about X's and O's to the point he doesn't wear a headset, and be the guy that dictates the minutia details about how the offense is run.
September 23rd, 2014 at 5:59 PM ^
Dude wants to tempo people, but hell when you cannot get lined up and communiate correctly using almost every second on the play clock...how are you going to be successful doing those things in ten seconds.
If we tried to tempo people past what we have so far...QB sneak, Inside runs, etc...I dare say things would be even worse than they are right now.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^
Mullen is in a weird spot. Miss St could struggle all fall and he could be replaced. Or, they can repeat their LSU effort a number of times and get plucked for a higher profile job. Interesting situation for him
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:34 PM ^
Sort of the same situation with Kevin Wilson... Though I'd think the Missou win is enough to buy him a season's worth of breathing room, even if things go badly. IU fans don't seem as delusional as Missippi State fans.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:47 PM ^
I've sen this thought thrown around before but I don't understand how that actually works. What is the pitch that only lands low level kids vs high level kids? I think if you work at a high profile school you get higher rated kids.
Wouldn't Hoke be that guy having recruited to Ball St and SDS for the previous 10 years?
No one knows the answer for sure, but when RR 1st got hired he recruited extremely well and got higher ranked kids. It was only after the stretchgate and the negative stories being planted from inside Michigan that recruiting started to suffer. I believe if RR was given an extension he would have cleaned up on the recruiting trail. Between Denard's heisman run in 2011 and Michigan's pedigree we would have getting the pick of the litter. Guys like Watkins, Hart and Jernigan were real possibilities in 2010 before the axe fell.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:18 PM ^
Maybe I've become completely jaded, but the whole HC search discussion is irrelevant to me as long as Brandon stays.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:23 PM ^
"he only knew how to recruit and plan for a school that couldn't get top guys"
kinda sounds like another former West Virginia coach--who has done okay at a bigger school.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:27 PM ^
If they wouldn't have fired him we would have had Dee Hart and Sammy Watkins in the backfield with DR... But everyone then was yelling the spread doesn't work in the Big Ten (Meyer doesn't seem to be having a problem with it, Looked pretty good vs. MSU in week 2).
September 23rd, 2014 at 4:11 PM ^
the whole "spread can't work in the Big Ten" was the bullshittiest. God, that drove me crazy.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:25 PM ^
Keeping Hoke for another year with Shane Morris under the helm and a favorable schedule is much better than all of these questions. We are going to be returning 18 starters next year.
September 23rd, 2014 at 3:47 PM ^
you act as if Morris is a plus. His mistakes to date per minute played far exceed DG or DR. At this moment, he doesn't look like the solution--not that more experience and learning a touch might not cure.
Last week you opined that the Utah game would be a good measuring stick. I would have agreed then and do now. To me, it appears you have simply moved the bar.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:31 PM ^
Beau Baldwin, Eastern Washington HC? (66-25, .725)
Year | Team | Overall | Conference | Standing | Bowl/playoffs | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Central Washington Wildcats (Great Northwest Athletic Conference) (2007) | |||||||||
2007 | Central Washington | 10–3 | 6–2 | 3rd | L NCAA Division II Quarterfinal | ||||
Central Washington: | 10–3 | 6–2 | |||||||
Eastern Washington Eagles (Big Sky Conference) (2008–present) | |||||||||
2008 | Eastern Washington | 6–5 | 5–3 | T–3rd | |||||
2009 | Eastern Washington | 8–4 | 6–2 | T–2nd | L NCAA Division I First Round | ||||
2010 | Eastern Washington | 13–2 | 7–1 | T–1st | W NCAA Division I Championship | ||||
2011 | Eastern Washington | 6–5 | 5–3 | T–3rd | |||||
2012 | Eastern Washington | 11–3 | 7–1 | T–1st | L NCAA Division I Semifinal | ||||
2013 | Eastern Washington | 12–3 | 8–0 | 1st | L NCAA Division I Semifinal | ||||
Eastern Washington: | 56–22 | 38–10 | |||||||
Total: | 66–25 |
Chuck Martin (74-11, .870), former GVSU HC, former ND OC and current Miami (OH) HC?
Year | Team | Overall | Conference | Standing | Bowl/playoffs | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Grand Valley State Lakers (Great Lakes Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) (2004–2009) | |||||||||
2004 | Grand Valley State | 10–3 | 8–2 | 3rd | L NCAA Division II Quarterfinal | ||||
2005 | Grand Valley State | 13–0 | 9–0 | 1st | W NCAA Division II Championship | ||||
2006 | Grand Valley State | 15–0 | 10–0 | 1st | W NCAA Division II Championship | ||||
2007 | Grand Valley State | 12–1 | 9–0 | 1st | L NCAA Division II Semifinal | ||||
2008 | Grand Valley State | 11–1 | 10–0 | 1st | L NCAA Division II Quarterfinal | ||||
2009 | Grand Valley State | 13–2 | 9–1 | 1st | L NCAA Division II Championship | ||||
Grand Valley State: | 74–7 | 55–3 | |||||||
Miami RedHawks (Mid-American Conference) (2014–present) | |||||||||
2014 | Miami | 0–4 | 0–0 | ||||||
Miami: | 0–4 | 0–0 | |||||||
Total: | 74–11 |
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:37 PM ^
I think Tressel worked for the I-AA to Big Time leap because the guy absolutely knew Ohio and how to sell Ohio State to Ohio kids. We're not getting that with Baldwin. As for Martin, I need to see more than him just maintaining Brian Kelly's GVSU program before I give him the keys.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:49 PM ^
Too much risk, IMO. The first sign of trouble and people will point to their lack of track record at a top level. If this was the hire to replace Carr, I'd be all for it, but after 7 years of misery, you have to go with known entities.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:33 PM ^
be a great option for da footbaw team. Srsly.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:33 PM ^
re: recruiting
Guys if we lose 5 players and hire the right coach it won't matter. Please. We are recruiting at a ridiculous rate and not seeing any results. The right coach will take a class ranked #31 for 1 year and do things with it. It will still be sandwiched around a bunch of classes in the top 10.
Kansas State with a premier coach wins with recruiting classes in the 60s. Stanford, Wisconsin and MSU recruit mostly in the 30-40 range (Stanford has gone upward the past 2-3 years to more like the 20s). Because they have good staffs.
If we have a good staff, it can suffer one class ranked at #29 surrounded by our normal 5-10-15. Your program won't tank based on losing 4 players in 1 class.
We've tried the "highly ranked class with average coached" thing; it doesnt work. I'd take perennial classes in the 20s with a great coach. It would be 10x better than what we are doing now. But we wont face that fate. The right coach will have our recruiting right back where it normally is after a 1 year dip. It's not a big deal.
This presumes we can find the right coach.
re: Mullen - I agree its friggin impossible to win the SEC West if you are not Auburn LSU A&M or Bama. Its brutal. That said I looked over a few of his years last night and the years they go 7-5, 3 of those wins are against baby seals and then they have crossovers with like Vanderbilt and Tennessee. So its very friggin hard to judge what Dan Mullen is doing down there. Every so often like last week he pulls a major coup but many of these years they are getting blasted by the top 4 teams in the divison (he has some wins vs Auburn... in the year it was 3-9 for example) and then beating up on nobodies or bad SEC teams.
Dantonio was 18-17 at Cincy so there is no sure thing. It is a lot bigger analysis than W-L like all of us do here by looking at records. MSU had a 100 point checklist when they did their search; I am sure Brandon had at least 3 points eh?
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:38 PM ^
None of these highly ranked classes are even upperclassmen yet. We have a team of redshirt Sophomores...
September 23rd, 2014 at 2:13 PM ^
Rich Rod's classes were also highly ranked. UM has had the same average ranking as Oregon the past decade in recruiting. UM has never had a class lower ranked than MSU or Wisconsin. Cmon.
As for Hoke's classes some of these guys are juniors already - Funchess might be in his last year. Ross III, Bolden, Funchess, Wilson, Pipkins etc.
And I am ignoring the 2011 class, these are already 2012s I am talking about - those are Hoke's guys. Some have 1 year left after this season. Time flies.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:35 PM ^
I don't know if it has been mentioned, but Jeff Long from Arkansas grew up with Brady Hoke in the same town. They are very very close friends, played sports together etc. Deep ties.
So, it is a safe assumption that if Long somehow ends up as AD, replacing Brandon...that he would have a difficult time dumping Brady Hoke. Example:
http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-football/michigan-football-coach-brad…
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:35 PM ^
Not that I know Schlissel, but my bet is he is aware of everything. He knows about donors, he knows how much football brings in. I'm sure he made himself aware in his transition how Michigan differs from Brown and athletics sure is one.
I wouldn't bet that his being a new president will slow down his willingness to act.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:44 PM ^
6 days of the week sometimes 7 there are no donors anywhere on campus
then on a home football weekend he is practically tripping over millionaires with checkbooks
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:41 PM ^
1. Jeff Long is a pretty good AD. His football knowledge is well above Brandon's, I can tell you that much. Long doesn't seem to put that much emphasis of importance in Arkansas' bball program which would have to change if he came to Michigan. But then again, you can't really blame him considering the fact that unless you're Florida, bball in the SEC is basically dead.
2. I definitely think that at this current moment Dan Mullen is a bit of an overraction. He's not necessarily a bad coach, he just seems to embody mediocrity. His teams just have a tendency to do exactly what they're projected to do. They won't upset any of the good teams (I wouldn't call the win over LSU an upset, they're not nearly as stacked across the board at they've been in years past, and a bit overrated), but they wont go out and suck against bad ones. I understand thats much better than what Miss St. used to be, but it's still not saying much. I also wouldn't look at the whole "four bowl games in four years" thing considering a 6-6 record gets you into a bowl game. That's not really respectable, imo, unless it's the upper echelon of bowl games.
3. I have a question. Why not go after some NFL coordinators? I could see why it could be a bad idea in terms of longevity. They may just be looking for a quick job to prove their coaching prowess before heading back to the league. But if we interview a guy who's willing to be here for the long haul, I don't see why not. Just a thought.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:47 PM ^
If a NFL guy gets hired and has some good years, I doubt he would stay
They all want to see if they can win the super-bowl
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:53 PM ^
Charlie Weiss is the other half.
Like I said above, considering our problem the last 7 years has been only being good on one side of the ball, it seems like taking a chance and being the first HC gig for a coordinator promotion seems like too much of a leap of faith. We need someone that has shown they can at least manage both sides of the ball successfully and handle all the other HC responsibilities that coordinators would be dealing with for the first time.
September 23rd, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^
Charlie Weis is a helluva lot more than the other half.
September 23rd, 2014 at 2:13 PM ^
I see what you're saying. At the same time every coach has to start somewhere. There aren't many head coaches today that just walked of the street into a head coaching position. Most, if not all, started off as someone's OC, DC, WR coach, etc. I agree that it's a leap of faith, but it's a leap of faith many teams have taken. Besides, how many coaches in the country right now are in a good position, that are willing to leave? Not many, if any.
September 23rd, 2014 at 2:41 PM ^
That's exactly the conundrum right now. We aren't in a position to take another chance and there aren't any low risk guys and our current guy is on his way to being untenable by season's end or sooner. Rock-hard place, frying pan-fire, etc
September 23rd, 2014 at 5:02 PM ^
Correction all three sides of the ball. I want a coach who can whip our special teams into shape. If you have a great offense and great defense and a special teams that isn't up to snuff you could get in trouble.
September 23rd, 2014 at 1:48 PM ^
Harold Goodwin (Arizona OC) is a Michigan alum and former grad. assistant.
September 23rd, 2014 at 2:17 PM ^
Teryl Austin was also here at UM for 3 years. Also the DC for 1 year at Florida.
He currently is the Lions DC and thru 3 games and a lot of injuries to the defense they actually look pretty darn good. So if you are going the NFL route that would be another name to throw in the ring.
September 23rd, 2014 at 2:07 PM ^
Mark Hudspeth- Lousiana Layfette, Matt Wells- Utah State, Jim McElwain- Colorado State
September 23rd, 2014 at 2:45 PM ^
Comes from the Saban school of "Process" and CSU seems to be coming back to their traditional water level-- competitive Mtn West team. My worry about him was he was with John L up in East Lansing...
On Matt Wells, I have a lot of friends at Utah St and they really think he's impressive. He's not a westerner by any means, but landed the job when Gary Anderson left for Wiscy. I'm still wait and see on him to make sure it isn't a honeymoon period we're seeing.
If Butch Jones can make more progressin turning around Tennessee I'd think he'd be the guy I'd target, even if that meant an armed mob marching from Knoxville to Ann Arbor. I'm still holding out hope that we'd be able to land Shaw from Stanford somehow....
I've been also trying to put together the formula for a successful NFL hire in the college ranks. Seems like you have to be mildly but not too successful (8-8 to 10-6 type coach with propensity to be in Wild Card discussions every year), but also younger, served under a top notch head coach, and a solid X & O's guy who can motivate. (People forget that Pete Carroll for all his rah rah was a very highly regarded defensive coach in his first NFL run from a scheme POV). Does anyone fit that bill? If not for the regional implications I'd say Jim Schwartz would, also fitting the template may be Gary Kubiak, Eric Mangini, and Josh McDaniels.
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