Is this Michigan football team similar to the 2002 NC OSU team with Clarett?
Maurice Clarett 11 games 222 att, 1237 yds with a 5.6 per carry av. 16 TD's
Lydell Ross 14 games 166 att, 619 yds 3.7 per carry
Craig Krenzel 148 comp, 249 att, 59.4 pct, 2110 yds 12TD's 7 int's
Defense was ranked #2 in total defense giving up only 13.1 pts per game.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/ohio-state/2002.html#all_team
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/years/2002-team-defense.html
October 26th, 2021 at 9:41 AM ^
No. Next question.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:09 AM ^
It feels like this Michigan rushing attack is unprecedented. 2 running backs on pace for over 1000 yards and nearly 20 touchdowns each. Has that ever happened in the history of college football? Not including those teams from WW2 era and before, back when teams ran the ball 90 percent of the time.
Even if it were true, the game has changed a lot in 19 years. Some things that worked back then wouldn't fly nowadays. I can't imagine a team winning a NC with a starting QB who threw only 12 TDs and 7 picks in a season. That's just impossible to do today.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:25 AM ^
I don't want to take anything away from our guys because they are having a fantastic season, and what they are doing is impressive. However, it is not unprecedented. Many teams in the modern era have had two 1,000+ yard rushers in the same season. Georgia did it in 2017 with Nick Chubb and Sony Michel.
EDIT: 2017, not 2018. Though, they also had two 1,000+ yard rushers in 2018.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:33 AM ^
2018 Georgia rushing attack was lead Swift and Holyfield. Both had 1,000 yards, but only has 17 Tds combine, the op also referenced the 20 tds each
October 26th, 2021 at 10:57 AM ^
Meant 2017 Georgia. Still didn't have both over 20 TDs, but it's still not unprecedented either way.
October 26th, 2021 at 12:58 PM ^
Going to be very, very hard to get both Corum and Haskins to 20 TD with some of the defenses on the horizon. Both have 10 right now.
One pair I'll mention: 1997 Nebraska had Ahman Green with 1877 yds / 22 TD and Scott Frost (not a RB, I know) with 1095 yds / 19 TD. But they also cheated against Missouri so some of those overtime yards should not have counted.
October 26th, 2021 at 1:05 PM ^
Fuck Scott Frost and the rest of the 1997 Nebraska football team.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:45 AM ^
2016 Oklahoma with Samaje Perine & Joe Mixon combined for ~2700 total yards & 28 total TDs
October 26th, 2021 at 1:00 PM ^
OP comin in hot with the ESPN stats. "The last time this happened was 2020." ....
October 26th, 2021 at 10:42 AM ^
I can imagine Georgia doing that. They’re giving up less than 7 points per game. Pair that with a good running game and special teams, and you can win a championship with a game manager at QB.
Georgia’s QB may be a lot better than that. I don’t know. The first thing I think of for them is that dominating defense.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:25 AM ^
Logged in to say this..Georgia could very well be that good on defense.
Their starting QB is good, he's just been hurt.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:44 AM ^
This is where feelings get in the way. We see our team, it's good, we like it, we're excited. That's great.
But this is hardly unprecedented. 2005 USC had Lendale White, who rushed for 1302 yards and scored 24 TDs. But he wasn't the star; Reggie Bush was the star. Bush rushed for 1740 yards at 8.7 a pop, scoring "only" 16 TDs (both had an additional 2 through the air, Bush also added a punt return TD). Plus they had Matt Leinart throwing for 3800 yards.
Others have mentioned Georgia, which has had multiple teams with multiple thousand yard rushers--Nick Chubb and Sonny Michel weren't that long ago. Eddie Lacy and TJ Yeldon both bested 1000 yards for Alabama in 2012. It's notable, but it's not unprecedented.
October 26th, 2021 at 1:04 PM ^
How about the 2009 Nevada Wolfpack
October 26th, 2021 at 10:54 AM ^
One of my favorite 2-RB attacks to watch was 2007 Arkansas with Darren McFadden and Felix Jones. I had to look up the numbers:
- Darren McFadden, Jr.: 1,830 yards, 5.6 YPC, 16 Rushing TD, 1 Receiving TD, Doak Walker Award, All-American RB, 1st round pick (4)
- Felix Jones, Jr.: 1,162 yards, 8.6 YPC, 11 Rushing TD, 2 kickoff return TD, All-American KR, Doak Walker Semifinalist, 1st round pick (22)
October 26th, 2021 at 11:59 AM ^
They also had Peyton Hillis on that team. I remember some fun times running the Flexbone with them in NCAA 08 with McFadden and Jones at slotback and Hillis as fullback.
October 26th, 2021 at 12:01 PM ^
That team also had Peyton hillis at fullback who had like 900 all purpose yards.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:10 AM ^
The whole '1000 yds' standard is a shell of what it used to be. It's still a great landmark, but players have three more games to get there than they used to have. It used to be a 9 game season, then 10 games. Now it's 12 regular season and bowl game. It's easier to hit 1000 yards through 13 games than it is through 9 or 10 games.
October 26th, 2021 at 1:08 PM ^
Agreed! Maybe we should start talking about a 100 yd/game average over a season as the standard instead?
October 26th, 2021 at 11:27 AM ^
Just looked at the stats for the best rushing team in the B1G that I recall in modern times football. 2003 Minnesota had Lawrence Maroney and Marion Barber both go over 1000, finishing with 17 and 10 tds, but a third back had 570 yards and 11 tds (maybe a short yardage guy). They also had a pretty mobile QB. Remember that team probably should have beat us in their dome when they ran for 450 on us which was a pretty decent run defense all year. We had some memorable trickery with a 35 yard catch and run TD caught by John Navarre, and of course some Braylon magic. But that team I believe eclipsed what we are doing rushing wise and went 10-3 at Minnesota, easily could have 11-2 if John Navarre doesn’t score on a catch and run.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:44 AM ^
That Minnesota tandem was really good. Still think that Glen Mason got a raw deal.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:38 AM ^
Very impressive, but definitely not unprecedented. Has happened 80+ times in cfb history
October 26th, 2021 at 11:38 AM ^
Michigan had dual 1000 yard rushers in 1975 with Rob Lytle and Gordon Bell. They also did it again in 2011 with Denard Robinson and Fitzgerald Toussaint, off course Denard wasn't playing tailback in that offensive scheme.
October 26th, 2021 at 12:32 PM ^
Recently, Nick Chubb and Sony Michel both rushed for over 1,200 yards in 2017. D'Andre Swift also had 600 yards that year. I think Georgia did it again the following year.
October 26th, 2021 at 12:46 PM ^
unprecedented? try harder
October 26th, 2021 at 12:53 PM ^
In 2007 Darren McFadden had 1800+ yards and 17 touchdowns and Felix Jones had 1100+ and 11 TDs. Our guys won't come close to that yardage. And they were close to that in 2006 (1600+ and 1100+, respectively).
There have been a lot of great RB tandems like this. Even this year, Texas A&M has a guy with more yards than Corum (Spiller) and another guy with more yards than Haskins (Achane). They each only have 5 TDs though to the 10 that each of the Michigan guys have.
October 26th, 2021 at 9:19 PM ^
Neither will get to 20 TDs with the teams we are about to face.
October 26th, 2021 at 12:32 PM ^
the least-earned upvotes in the history of mgoboard.
October 26th, 2021 at 9:42 AM ^
I see the parallels, but even back then -- and adjusting for the time -- OSU had a more talented team.
Related reference (trigger warning: Columbus paper):
October 26th, 2021 at 10:39 AM ^
and a longer rap sheet
btw is Clarett still in prison?
October 26th, 2021 at 11:03 AM ^
By accounts, he's turned his life around. From Wikipedia:
Since his release, Clarett has become a celebrated public speaker across the country by speaking candidly about his previous struggles and successful recovery. Additionally, Clarett founded a successful behavioral health agency in both Youngstown and Columbus. He also co-hosts Business and Biceps, a top-rated business podcast.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:39 AM ^
I like post-Ohio State, post-life turnaround Maurice Clarett a lot more than I liked him when he shredded the Big Ten.
October 26th, 2021 at 12:00 PM ^
There's a 30-for-30 about his story and relationship with Jim Tressel called "Youngstown Boys" which was excellent. I admit I got to the end and I had a very different impression of Clarett.
October 26th, 2021 at 9:42 AM ^
Based on the egregious holding that OSU team got away with on multiple, key, Clarett runs vs UM, have to say no. UM might be the mirror opposite of that team, however, as all current evidence suggests holding Hutchinson is legal in the BiG rulebook.
All snark, intended.
October 26th, 2021 at 9:54 AM ^
I’ve been saying this all snowflake aside if his name was Bosa he’d have drawn a dozen holding calls conservatively over the season.
October 26th, 2021 at 9:43 AM ^
Can't really compare offensive stats from 2002 to 2021. So much has changed.
October 26th, 2021 at 12:01 PM ^
Yes and no.
Michigan's running backs are more explosive than 2002 OSU's were, but I would have taken OSU's offensive line. Michigan has the special teams play to match OSU's special teams (which was, of course, a high priority to Tressel).
OSU's defense was better, based on being well-rounded at all 11 spots. Michigan's defense certainly has its assets, but there are a few areas that need a bit more improvement (and have shown signs of that improvement, such as DT).
OSU's 2002 team was not a great team...it was a good team that had a great season. When that season concluded and I looked back at the 10 prior Buckeye seasons (1993-2002), I would have ranked the 2002 team as about the 5th best Buckeye team in those 10 seasons. Sometimes the breaks go your way, sometimes they go against you. That year, all the breaks went their way.
Imagine Michigan's 2005 team (The Year of Infinite Pain [before Infinite Pain was truly realized]). That team had about 8 games that could have gone either way. Depending on how the breaks fell, the 2005 team could legitimately have been either 4-8 or 12-0 or anywhere in between. Randomness landed them at 7-5.
If Michigan's 2005 team had all the breaks go its way and finished 12-0...that would have been comparable to OSU's 2002 season.
October 26th, 2021 at 2:52 PM ^
I've never upvoted a buckeye before. This feels gross.
October 26th, 2021 at 3:53 PM ^
Argument could be made that OSU wasn't even the best team in the conference that season. They were conference co-champs with Iowa and Iowa was winning games by much higher margins. Iowa came to Ann Arbor and crushed Michigan by 23 points. If they hadn't lost to Iowa State early in the season, they may have wound up ranked 2nd to OSU's 3rd in the BCS rankings.
If the B1G had a championship game between Iowa and OSU in 2002, it's a toss-up in my mind as to who would've won.
October 27th, 2021 at 6:55 PM ^
Every game was a coin flip that year and they came up heads 14 times in a row.
October 26th, 2021 at 9:46 AM ^
I don't know if you can compare this team to any other. Does that make them "incomparable"?
October 26th, 2021 at 9:48 AM ^
A better question. Does that team win a NC with college football today? When was the last time a team won with a elite defense and elite rushing attack and a pedestrian passing attack? 2015 Alabama? Even Coker threw for 21 TDs that year. Hopeful that this is the year (might be Georgia tbh) but CFB has not been trending that way.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:27 AM ^
Not in today's game, they're not. They might go win an NY6 bowl depending on who they're matched up with, but it has become abundantly clear that if you want to win a national championship in today's college game, you need a game-changing QB and an elite passing game to go along with it. A running game and great defense certainly help, but they are not what win you those games anymore.
Think about who the last few national title winning QBs have been. Burrow, Lawrence, Mac Jones, DeShaun Watson, Tua. All game-changers at the position for their respective teams, and guys who won their teams those games. Not just prevented them from losing. The days of guys like AJ McCarron being tasked with simply not screwing things up and handing the ball off to stud RBs are over. At least as far as if your goal is to win it all.
In today's game, offense sells tickets and wins championships. Even the best defenses are giving up 30-40 points a game when they get matched up against the best offenses.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:45 AM ^
Forget today, they barely won in 2002, needing a number of close shaves and miracle finishes, including a pretty fortunate reffing mistake in the championship game. Jim Tressel had significantly better teams in his own tenure.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:38 AM ^
Yeah I recall them mudslinging their way through the season, something like a 12-6 victory at Purdue and they beat us (3 loss outback bowl champs) 13-9 I believe and we had the ball in red zone on the last play of the game with a chance to win.
Then they got kind of lucky in the NC game when the stellar Miami back (can’t recall his name) bent his knee backwards in an all time “dear God!” injury caught on TV camera. Then I believe Miami also a controversial PI call in the last seconds that gave OSU a first down on like the 1 yard line or something for the go ahead TD in the final seconds.
October 26th, 2021 at 11:47 AM ^
Willis McGahee?
October 26th, 2021 at 12:00 PM ^
The score undersells what a miracle the Purdue win was; it was the "holy Buckeye" call by Musberger when they were going for it on 4th down and Krenzel nailed a TD Bomb from midfield. We played them ultra-close and got a TD wiped out by a technically defensible but morally dubious OPI call on Braylon Edwards.
The call against Miami was in OT, on an incomplete pass on fourth down that would have ended the game. It was not a great call, and could not have been more pivotal.
Except for 95 Nebraska and a Saban Bama team or two, national champions have to gut out close games. There is often luck involved. But that OSU team gutted out a *lot* of close games and was *really* lucky.
It wasn't a fake title. But they needed to roll sixes a number of times to make it.
October 26th, 2021 at 10:31 PM ^
I remember Braylon’s OPI well. I was a pissed off 13 year old that moment
also yes I recall now watching and that PI being on 4tb down which gave OSU a fresh set of downs, and the call was BS. I also recall when the game ended an OSU Oline went and patted a Miami defender on the head as he was on his knees in disbelief. It was like the OSU player was saying “sorry we had to steal that one from you brother”
Also, add Miami over Nebraska 2001 and USC over OU 2004 to the list of National Title blowouts.
October 26th, 2021 at 9:49 AM ^
Stranger things have happened, but I doubt it.
If you really do think this Michigan team compares with a national title team however I'm happy to take the other side of that bet. Straight up.
October 26th, 2021 at 9:52 AM ^
You left out Michael Jenkins who had over 1,000 yards receiving. An important piece that we don't seem to have at the moment (whether that's on the QB, WRs, or play calling is up to you).