OT: Helping out a Prospective Student

Re #2, it's most likely easier to get into U-M than UNC.  We have a larger enrollment and around 30% of students are from out of state, whereas for UNC the proportion is lower.  

It sounds like your credentials are pretty strong.  If you can push your ACT into the 30s that should pretty much clinch it, but you could be in as it is.

I had a 4.0 GPA with a 29 ACT and got in, but that was 2003. My guidance counselor told me I was a shoe-in, literally, and if you've ever seen Orange County you'd know why I shit myself upon hearing that. But anyway, 11 years ago I'd say you were a very solid candidate, but I don't know nowadays. Good luck.

Could you move to the area for a year and go to a local comminity college to establish residency? It's kind of a wacky idea but may 1) save some cost and 2) ease the admission process.

I was not accepted out of high school and went to EMU for one year before transferrng over for my degree. I found that I was easily accepted after a semester at EMU compared to the gut wrenching process of getting deferred (and ultimately not admitted) out of high school.

1. You're probably in as is, but it would help to raise your ACT if possible, especially if you're looking for a scholarship.

2. Michigan likes to take out of stater's because they can charge a lot more for tuition - iirc, the percentage of out of state students is actually rising. I wouldn't worry too much about being out of state when applying, you look like you should be ok.

3. Unfortunately, for this I have no idea. I only know one person on an academic scholarship from out of state (the one that makes tuition as if it were instate), and he had a 4.0 plus a 2250 SAT or something like that. I would ask the admissions office - they don't like to answer "will I get in?" questions, but if you ask for more information on scholarships for out of state students (i.e. how many people get them, how much are they worth generally), they will be happy to answer.

resumes, its a whole new ballgame, especially in the last few years.

1. Schools like to see a tough schedule (APs) but they want you to succeed at it. It looks like you have with your 4.0.

2. I would say, keep taking the ACT as much as you can.  It doesn't hurt to keep taking it.  IMO, its much preferable to the SAT. 

3. When it comes time to write essays, befriend one of your English teachers or counselors and let them help you.  Its the only One-on-One personal connection you will get between the person reading the app and you. So make it as good as you can.

it looks like you've poised yourself for success, and may the best of luck be with you. I am a current high school senior, and would have surely applied to Michigan, my dad's alma mater (with similar credentials as you) if I hadn't decided to play division 1 athletics elsewhere (I didn't like/care for the Michigan program, as much as I tried to convince myself I like it/them)

Good luck to you, and I hope you end up in Ann Arbor in a few years!

Has it seriously got to the point where a 4.0 and a 29 won't get you in?  Good thing I went back in '99 or I would be posting on the Sparty board right now.

(Sorry to piggyback here OP) I'm looking at attending the MFA Program at Stamps in 2015. Any advice would be greatly appreciated (minus the standard MFAs are worthless jokes from the peanut gallery)!

Non-MI resident

Non-UM grad

Mom worked for UM and sister attended undergrad at UM (I was born in AA, as my sig states)

Do I even have a chance? I heard they are starting a design MFA in 2015, any truth to this? I'm sure it's mostly based on one's portfolio more than anything but there has to be some other factors. I can't seem to get in contact with anyone from the school despite my multiple phone and email attempts.

Again, thanks in advance for any advice. I doubt there are too many MFAs on the board but worth a shot!

I think you bring a fair amount of extra curricular, plenty of AP course work, and a strong gpa but somewhat lacking ACT. My daughter has the same grades as you, higher ACT, not as many AP classes, and no varsity sports experience. She's been waitlisted despite my wife and I being alumni and my son a current sophomore. It's tough out there now. All I can say is "do more."

GET YOUR ACT UP. Also, Michigan is notoriously stingy when it comes to financial aid. I've got a friend from Toledo who had a 35 ACT and was valedictorian. He got practically nothing off.

I believe UM takes loads more out of state students than UNC, which is vastly harder from out of the state than from within.  Your grades look good - if you can get up the ACT a bit even better.

My main serious piece of advice is to get your recommendations from a teacher who is actually a GOOD WRITER and knows admissions pretty well.  On some forms, for example, it really matters (as a general, not UM specific observation) if the teacher marks you as being absolutely at the top of the class among students they've seen, or merely pretty close.  It matters if they can explain WHY they think you are outgoing hardworking insightful etc etc instead of just saying "any school would be glad to have him."

If UM does interviews (I don't think they generally do but someone can correct me), make sure to come prepared and knowledgeable about the school.  Dont ask questions that you could have googled, that always seems lazy to me. Anything you can find out on-line, you should already know. 

If you write an essay for a school, make sure your knowledge of the school and its fit for you are really evident; not by just claiming "I"m a good fit," but by demonstrating whatevr that school craves (independent spirit, scholarship, intellectual curiosity, a good 40 time, etc etc.)

I do a LOT of admissions interviewing for another school and these are things that have stuck out to me over the year.  Good luck and go blue

 

Both my kid had similar stats (slightly higher ACT, lower grades, A-), in state 3rd generation legacy and it was a no for both.  My son transfered in a year later and is now a junior at Michigan.  It is really hard to get into Michigan without some kind of hook.  That said you look like you have a good chance.  It depends upon the quality of your High School and the program you are applying to.

Spend time on College Confidential as they have a whole thread on topics like this and you can see the stats of people who were accepted and rejected

Some have already mentioned, but get great recommendation letters.  Somehow try and connect with someone who graduated.  Start your essays early to make sure they are done to the best of your ability (you can research standard questions and have a couple of drafts already started).  Try and do some internships/extra work in your intended major.  As others have mentioned try and get yor ACT score up.  If you are having problems doing so go into your last chance not caring...I know that sounds bad but I took mine a few times and kept getting the same score (studied and took practice test) and finaly I said screw it and just went in their relaxed and did 2 pts better. 

I would up that ACT and focus hard on your essays. make everyone and their mothers critique them. take a workshop. obviously keep up the grades. show you're passionate about something(s)

I hope some people who applied more recently than I (fall of 2007, was it really that long ago?), and the others commenting, would reply. From what I have heard, it has gotten significantly harder to get in in recent years. To the OP, several years ago you would be golden, now I'm not so sure. 

Apply early, of course, but everyone should know that the university is no longer on rolling admissions. Since the switch to the Common App, everyone (who applied before about Halloween) finds out at the same time, right after Christmas this year. 

Also, because of the Common App, applications have skyrocketed in the last four years. I don't know how much it would help, but you should demonstrate that you are more likely than the average applicant to actually attend. They get a ton of applications from people who end up at other schools because it's relatively easy to apply with the common app, only an extra couple essays, not a whole new process.

I can't speak to out-of-state or scholarships, unfortunately. Good luck OP!

CHART!

Here are ar the stats from last year:
http://www.admissions.umich.edu/drupal/about-our-applicants

Looks like you have a decent shot.  

My time was too long ago to be relevant, but do make sure that you have a plan for how to repay the out-of-state tuition costs, like getting a degree in readily employable major like someone else mentioned.  You don't want to be in $100,000 in debt without a job, no matter how much you love Michigan.  Don't forget it's an economic decision as well.

With your success in academics, you can also consider Michigan as a graduate school option.  Yes, it delays gratification, but you can get assistanceships (teaching, research) that makes it much more afforable for out of state students.  Grants, loans, and scholarships got me through undergrad at Michigan, but research assisantship paid for my grad school.

I'm not trying to talk you out of your dream of reaching Michigan, just trying to show that there are other routes.

As another commenter mentioned, your AP scores will be important, in addition to upping your ACT.  An ACT of 29 is in the 93rd percentile, which is very very good, but not a slam-dunk.  A 31 is the 97th percentile leap-frogging that 4 percent would be helpful.

But you want at least 4s on your APs -- I'm guessing that as a current junior you've taken no more than 1 so far, are probably taking three or four  this year, and four next year.  High school grading varies so much from school to school that those AP scores are used as a bit of an equalizer.  Get a bunch of 4s and 5s this year and you'll stand out a lot more as a student who is likely to have success.

And apply early.   More and more schools are filling up their class with a larger portion of early applicants.  When I was applying to schools 15 years ago, this mattered, but not much.  Now it's critical.

But I think no public university has as extreme an out-of-state policy as UNC does, where the o-o-s acceptance is like 20% of an incoming class (and that includes athletes).

former West Pointer; U of M for graduate school 

if you are considering a military academy, you should know that you can leave in the first two years with no financial or legal penalties.  if you perform well and elect to leave, undergraduate programs tend to look favorably on high performance at a service academy

ROTC is another option for tuition

if you have a certain amount of military service (I don't remember what it was; I was way over the limit, whatever it was) you qualify for in-state tuition at the U. of Michigan; the post 9-11 GI Bill is a big help too

I am pretty sure the university favors military service in admissions

military service isn't for everyone and I do NOT think it is something that you should do solely for college tuition; but, if its for you, it helps with admissions and financial aid at U of M

If you get accepted make sure to check with the local alumni club about a scholarship. It may only be $1-2k towards the first year, but every dollar counts. Also, it may be very easy to get due to low metriculation numbers for your area. I used to run one of scholarships for a few years, and gave everyone money because only one or two people applied and metriculated from my area.

Definitely up the ACT by doing as much ACT prep as you can this spring, realistically doing 30 minutes a night in Kaplan/Princeton Review/etc books, maybe hire a tutor, definitely go to your school's prep class if they have one, join online review courses and seminars, review SAT/ACT forums, etc.

That said, I think you've got a reasonable chance even if your ACT doesn't go up. I've had students from New York City and upstate NY go to Michigan with scores of 30. It's a little hard to compare because the SAT and ACT scores are drifting upward a little bit each year.

Emphasize that you're from Tennessee. Geographical diversity is always an eye-catcher. In NYC, our college counselor used to tell parents the best thing you could do for your kids' admissions chances was to rent an apartment in Wyoming.

Don't put too much stock in your GPA. I mean, it's good, but something like 25-33% of Michigan's incoming freshmen had 4.0s in high school. Again, a 4.0 isn't what it used to be.

Also, try some open courses from UofM and talk about them (or similar things like at MIT's OpenCourse) somehow in your essay.

Don't underestimate the value of your mgopoints either. 2000 points, and you're a shoe-in. The only reason I got accepted was because it was more than a decade before mgoblog existed (and a year or two before the internet!).

I graduate from Michigan in 2000. I was accepted no problem (as an out-of-state student). I am pretty certain though that I would not get into U of M on my first try today. I had good grades but certainly no 4.0. I graduated with a 3.6 (a mix of mostly As, A-, B+, with a few Bs), albeit from a well reputed/competitive high school (perhaps that elevated the value/worth of my grades). I was in the top 20% out of a class of 1400 people. I also took a lot of advanced electives in high school (i.e. physiology, anatomy, neuroscience, etc., while many people took gym and gym 2). I received a 28 on my ACT, although at the time, I do not think that test scores held as much value. I applied at a time when they still had that silly point system that got bounced after the Supreme Court case. APs/SAT IIs, etc. was just starting out around the time I was graduating from high school so I really did not have any of those behind my belt. I did not have much extracurriculars behind my belt but I did work (sales, counselor) since I was 14. In 1996, when I applied, I think my numbers were good enough, based on my admission stats (got into Michigan, Berkeley, Boston College....wait listed at U of Chicago, Northwestern), but these days, there is no way I get into these schools, especially as an out-of-state student.

It seems that these days getting into well reputed schools, including Michigan, has become extremely extremely difficult. These days articles about kids being under extreme pressure, spazzing out, spreading themselved too thin are all too common. I don't recall doing too many all-nighters in high school. It seems that in order to make oneself attractive to admission committees, you have to be the president of this club and that club, be on varsity, compete in math/science competitions, while getting straight As, and having plenty of APs, SAT IIs and the likes behind your belt. 

4.0 and 29 ACT score, along with extracurricular/good recs, to me sounds pretty solid. You don't have that much to lose. You migh as well apply. You never know. Perhaps something will resonate with an admissions officer in your essays, recs, etc. Michigan supposedly takes a look at the application as a whole, according to its admissions office, and does not reject stricly on scores (unless the score is really bad, which in your case is not an issue...29 is a pretty respectable score). A number of posters on here seemed to imply that your ACT score needs to be higher in order to have a good shot. I disagree. I think a 29 is pretty respectable and based on that graph that one of the posters put up, you seem to have a pretty decent chance.  I suppose a higher ACT score could not hurt, but with everything that you have behind your belt, unless it is a ridiculously uber competitive year for out of staters (nothin but 4.0, 36 ACT applicants), I would think that you would, in the very least, get on the wait list. I would be shocked if you were flat out rejected with your grades, ACT score, APs, etc.

I like to say that I was rejected from U-M with a 35 ACT and 3.79 GPA (because it's true!). But there were mitigating circumstances.

"How are my chances of currently getting into the university?"

 

Really good.

 

If you can get that ACT up over 30 - I'd say you're a lock.

 

 

I had a 3.8GPA, 33 ACT, was a National Merit Finalist, and only had about 4 AP courses - and I wasn't even borderline... of course that was 1993 when things were a little easier.

I went to Michigan for undergrad and grad school. My wife went to Michigan for undergrad and grad school and we just went through admissions with my daughter. She and all but one of her friends got into Michigan. The friend who did not went to Pioneer, played 2 varsity sports, had a 3.5GPA tons of outside volunteer experiences and a 33 ACT. She is now a freshman at MSU. 

GPA is nice, but it does depend on which high school you attended. The reason I asked about the AP test scores is because it is somewhat of a measure of both you and the level of education you received/are receiveing at your school. If students from your school are getting 0,1,2 in their AP tests, the level of education is not high. There will always be outliers, but a trend can be seen. There are national rankings of schools and a 4.0 at one school does not equal a 4.0 at another school. Admissions will have a "corrected GPA" based on your school's ranking. 

Michigan has a rolling admission so definitely apply early. I know for a fact that they have been refining the acceptance policy over the last year or two and have plans to make it even more difficult in the coming years. Essay is everything if you are on the cusp. If you had high AP test scores I would advise you to include this in your essay. It is easy to understand that you just had a down day on the ACT; it is not a terrible score by any means, but it should be improved if possible. Michigan is also making an effort to increase out-of-state students to maximize tuition differential. 

My advice is worth what you paid for it. Good luck.

 

I live in Ohio and am currently a senior in high school. I applied to UM and was admitted, and will be attending in the fall. I have a 3.72 GPA unweighted, 32 ACT, and 13 honors/AP classes throughout high school. I played 3 years of basketball, had somewhere in the same range of volunteer hours as you, was high up on the board of BBYO (Jewish youth organization), and had work experience interning for my local congressman. You definitely could get your ACT. Around this time last year my highest score was 28, then in April 2013 I got it up to 30, and in September 2013 I finally got it to 32. You could definitely get it in the range you want, maybe even up to a 33. If you have at least a 31, I'd say you are a good bet to get in. I would make sure you have good essays though. Write about experiences that are unique, they really like to see essays that are different from the general mass. I haven't heard anything on scholarships yet, but I'm not anticipating anything on that front. Also applied for direct admission into Ross, but again I'm skeptical. As for UNC, I also applied there for early action, and haven't heard back from them yet. I should hear either today or tomorrow (they said decisions would be released by the end of January), so I will let you know about that if you care to know.