Shea era post-mortem with panthers data
Shea has now played a bunch of games in the USFL. What has his performance there told us about the era of Harbaugh’s M with Shea under center?
I think he has been indecisive, loose with the ball, and has happy feet in the pocket. Seems Harbaugh squeezed the most upside he could put of him.
your first post was actually better
He sucked when he was at Michigan and he still sucks.
Well that’s just not true. He was a good QB at Michigan that had some limitations in his game that prevented him from being a great QB.
Guy averaged 2800 yards and 22.5 TDs per year in his two years at Michigan, while completing 60% of his passes. He certainly didn’t suck. If he could hit a deep ball to save his life, we’d be talking about an all-time great Michigan QB
He definitely didn't suck. The reality is that he was limited by his inability to consistently progress past his first read. He would often bail from the pocket and turn it into "playground" football if the first read wasn't available.
Yup, didn't "suck'. He had deficiencies and never lived up to the 5* hype but UM has had much worse QBs. Most teams field a worse QB in any given year. Shea was above average even when frustrating.
Never ceases to amaze me how a guy on a couch with a beer in his hand can scream “that player sucks!” when watching college or pro sports. I would love to be a non-descript utility player in the MLB making ‘only’ $500k/year and bounce around the league for 5 years. Or, a third stringer on Michigan’s football team - run out of the tunnel and touch the banner in full pads!
Every player on those offenses is cashing or has cashed NFL checks except for one. But his focus on golf will help him enjoy sports his entire life.
1. Shea definitely cashed an NFL check, considering he signed as a UDFA with the Chiefs. They get paid for that regardless of how long they remain with the team.
2. Making and lasting in the NFL isn’t indicative of being a good college player or not. There are 32 NFL teams. Teams carry, at most, 3 QBs. That’s 96 QBs spread out over a 15-20 year timeframe from when they last played college ball. LOTS of good QBs don’t translate to the NFL.
Same for you, you COULD have been an all time great qb.
Interesting look at Patterson. I've always been fascinated by his popularity and people's refusal to acknowledge what they were seeing. What you say is true but a slanted view at best, disingenuous at worst. The challenge with looking at completion percentage for a qb who only threw screen passes behind the line of scrimmage is similar to looking at Shaqs fg percentage and concluding that he was a better shooter than Reggie Miller. It's also true that in his senior year (largely on layups and dunks) Patterson completed 56.2% ....and LEAD THE NATION IN TURNOVERS. Was the only one of 337 columbine prospects to not get signed, has been bad in the semi pro league.
And we're talking about "all time great". It's truly fascinating.
Wish we'd had "93Grad" under center. You gotta be completely lacking in self-awareness to come on a message board and accuse some very talented guy who did the damn best he could of 'sucking.' Say you wish he'd succeeded more, been able to run the ball on those darned RPOs, etc. But--from the very modest perspective of someone who couldn't even think up a screen name--you're going to just piss on the guy? Be more creative.
"93Grad" is Elvis Grbac and you should feel bad now.
Cmon... he didn't suck... but he got tunnel vision for sure. I will say Cade and JJ are both better than he ever was.
Cade essentially IS Shea with the exception of the fact that Cade can hit a deep ball at least occasionally. I view them on very similar terms.
Both are good, albeit limited, QBs with deficiencies in their game that prevent them from reaching a status of great. Shea got tunnel vision and couldn’t hit a deep ball. Cade has a propensity to go for the check down too often and his height/arm slot leads to a lot of batted balls.
Cade gets a lot of credit for team success, but as far as strictly abilities as a QB they’re on a pretty similar status while JJ has clearly the highest ceiling of the three.
There are so few similarities between them that "Cade essentially IS Shea" misses the mark for me. In the most general sense regarding some overall, arbitrary & individual designation of good vs. great, I guess, maybe? But then, by that standard, all good-not-great UM QBs would "essentially be Shea". Their strengths and weaknesses aren't very similar. Their styles aren't similar. Their recruiting profiles were very different. Their leadership intangibles don't seem similar and their records aren't similar. Also, Cade's career isn't done yet. I'm not sure who Cade is, but he doesn't seem much like Shea to me.
Considering I was responding to the notion that Cade and JJ are both better than Shea ever was, that’s where the “Cade IS Shea” comparison comes in. Good, not great QB with limitations in their game that prevent them from being great.
Im not saying they play similarly. I didn’t say they have the same strengths and weaknesses, I actually said the opposite in fact. “Records aren’t similar” is a weird argument in comparing QBs. If Shea was the QB this year, the record doesn’t change. Cade benefitted from an elite running game and our edge rushers combining for 25 sacks. If Shea had the same, we’d be looking at similar results from him.
As far as “all good-not-great” QBs “essentially being Shea,” then yeah if you were to claim that one of them is better than Shea then I would absolutely be pointing out that they’re essentially the same guy. Doesn’t mean they play the same. Just means that regardless of which one you pick, you’re getting the same kind of guy. Good, not great. It’s that simple. You’re putting words in my mouth with all of that other stuff.
Cade is also to the point in his career where he is what he is. He’s a 4th year player now. The flaws in his game are physical and not something he has control over. He’s not going to get taller, his arm isn’t going to get stronger. He’s a good QB because he’s safe and composed. He’s not going to push the ball vertically downfield and he’s not going to take risks, limiting his upside. What is he honestly going to improve upon that makes him better?
Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I was trying to understand your Cade IS Shea statement. To me, that means they're very similar, but I guessed you could have only meant it as they're both good-not-great so Cade is Shea in this one measure. It seems we both agree that they're not similar in other specific ways.
We win the 2017 OSU game and the 2017 MSU game if Shea was our QB. I wouldn’t say he sucked.
Didn't Shea have ball security issues? I don't see him doing much better than O'Korn in the hurricane.
Looks like we found the person who watches USFL
I think that Hoke has changed the tide on the rivalry.
Definitely, even if Devin Gardner wasn't able to take us home this year in Cbus I see us battling with Urban for years to come
Agreed. It's impressive to hear football again.
Half seriously, I can still remember the many sockpuppet MGoBlog accounts singing that man's praises around the time he was hired. I blamed Dave Brandon.
Clap, clap, clap, clap!
Patterson made me pine for the good ol' days of Sheridan.
Did you even watch those two play?
Just delete your account after posting that nonsense.
I think he must have meant Pat Sheridan, Tigers OF with the clutch 3-run HR in the '87 playoffs
...
come to think of it i miss him too
I harbor no ill will towards Nick Sheridan - he did the best he could in a system he wasn't built for. But to compare him with Shea in unreasonable...
This is one of the most idiotic posts I have seen in years.
Child, please.
You forgot the data part.
Data analysis appears to still be ongoing.
Ooh ooh! Do Bobby Hebert!
i haven't watched a single usfl game. but i will guess that he still can't hit a deep ball. that's what killed him at UM. so many wide open deep receivers missed.
Missing receivers and not seeing them have similar results. Tough position to play-talent helps but composure is a game changer.
When your first move under pressure is to run backwards, it makes deep passes even deeper.
I’m not sure this was OPs intention, but it seems like pointlessly dragging a former player? He was only a disappointment on the basis of his recruiting rankings. There have been plenty of Michigan qbs who played at a similar level, especially in the last few decades. He didn’t quit or transfer away or do anything to hurt the team intentionally. He had some good games and some shitty ones. That’s most college qbs. Wish he had played better. And for the people who said Harbaugh sucked because he couldn’t get this five star to play like one, you should ignore them anyway.
The reason people are subconsciously angry...is because to go to Shea, Harbaugh went away from Spieght, who may have made it. He was on the cusp of being quite good, and remember he was an underclassman when he was playing. What was he, 10-2 and a redshirt junior, then we moved away from him ? Who cans a qb after 10-2. Had to have been a zillion pissed teammates. Maybe others don't care, and I'm wrong, but I wanted to see the progression the next year.
The fumble at the goalline vs OSU, did it in for him.
Yeah I can see that, but that’s not Shea’s fault? And it’s revisionist in the sense that who knows what we’re would have gotten from Wilton? The offense coordinator changed twice in that time too- would he have thrived under those systems? I guess my point is I don’t see the point in hating on the guy. I also wish he could have thrown a deep ball against Alabama, but honestly it seems like a lot of effort to still think about Shea Patterson?
Ehhh, this is being a little revisionist towards Wilton's career here.
2016 Wilton had a good year, but it was the same sort of year that Cade just had - good game manager, but isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. Final statline that year was 2538 yds (61st Nationally) with a 61.4 completion% (39th), he threw 18 TDs (56th) to 7 INTs (26th), with a QB Rating of 139.8 (40th).
And then 2017 starts, where he has an awful game against Florida, (11/25 for 181 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs), before a couple of bounceback games against 4-8 Cincinnati (17/29 for 221 yards, 2 TDs) and 3-9 Hawaii (14/23 for 169 yards), and then broke his back against Purdue and was lost for the season.
Yeah that’s not remotely how it happened. We went 10-3 with him as a redshirt sophomore, then he struggled as a redshirt junior before breaking his back and the team limped to 8-5 with the O’Korn/Peters tandem. That’s when Shea was brought in and Speight went to UCLA.
Shea was a better QB than Speight. Shea was certainly a better QB than redshirt senior at UCLA Speight that was playing after recovering from a broken back. Add in that you get two years of Shea vs one year of Speight and it’s a no-brainer.
If THAT’S why people are angry about Shea, they really need a dose of reality.
This should be deleted.
None of our recent five-stars have lived up to expectations. Unless you win the Heisman or win a conference championship and get drafted in the first round you’ve fallen short. five-stars is a high bar. Dax is the exception.
Bagging on former players is poor form.
I don’t think winning a conference championship should be how you evaluate individual 5* players
You're probably right.
My HS football coach played for Wyoming and his coaches later coached for [Nebraska]. My coach had three Dudes on his team during his first year coaching and he called up the Nebraska coaches to tell them about the kids. The Nebraska coach asked him if he won the state championship. He said he didn't. The Nebraska coach told him that if he had one kid who could play for Nebraska they would have won the state championship and the coach didn't even look at the 3 players.
Nebraska coach sort of seems like a dick, but there is a point to the story. If you have someone at that elite level, they change the game. Hutchinson, Ojabo and Dax played like five-star players this year and they changed the game. OSU has 5 stars out the wazoo, so the conference championship is an unfair standard, but the idea is that they get your team more wins.
I think that’s an easier statement to make looking at high school players. 99% of high school players will never play D1 football. If you have a major D1 player, they’re going to have more of an impact at that level than a 5* would have against the other top 1% of high school players that DO make D1 college.
Derrick Henry running against high school kids is a lot more unfair than it was with him running against college guys as an example. Henry is a major example, but that’s true for a lot of players.
Obviously positions come into play, a 5* QB is probably going to have more impact on your team winning games than a 5* strong safety. But generally yes, more 5*s means more wins. But players should be evaluated on their individual abilities and merits and not on team accomplishments. Phenomenal players can get stuck on garbage teams.
"Phenomenal players can get stuck on garbage teams."
Agreed. That is sort of why some people want to see Shea fail at the USFL, or Joe Milton fail at Tennessee. They want an assurance that the player sucks and that it wasn't Michigan. Unless a player trashes the program I think bad mouthing them is uncalled for.
I completely agree bad mouthing them is uncalled for. My only issue was associating whether they lived up to the hype with a team accomplishment. We have had plenty of absolute studs on the field that lived up to the hype that didn’t win a damn thing.
None of our recent five-stars have lived up to expectations... Dax is the exception.
So, at least one of our recent five-stars has lived up to expectations.