Ok, that is a different argument than what I thought was being made.
per rivals:
Alabama 2008 #1 class, 3-5* 19-4*. Just a bit ahead of Notre Dame (3-5*, 16 4*), Florida (4-5*, 12-4*) and Ohio (4-5*, 9-4*). First, but not exactly world breaking, although coming after a 7-6 year.
Alabama 2009 #1, 4 5*, 14 4*. Ahead of LSU (4-5*, 11-4*) and USC (4-5*, 11-4*). First again, but similar enough to other top programs, and coming off a 12-2 season.
Alabama 2010 #5 1 5*, 15 4*. Behind USC (4 13), Florida (4-5* 17-4*) Texas (2-5* 19-4*), Auburn (3- 5* 13-4*). This is coming off Saban's first National Championship season. Again, in line with other top programs.
I don't think any of this stuff screams "unprecedented". Did he start off strong? Absolutely! But he was just returning from a stint in the NFL,and had won a national championship at LSU 5 years prior. It's not out of the question that he would be able to use that to help him recruit. And recruiting was in line with what USC, LSU, Texas and Florida were getting at the time as well. It doesn't look like a total outlier to me.
To be clear, I'm not saying he couldn't have possibly been cheating or paying players, I'm saying that the evidence presented is speculation, so we shouldn't treat it as an unquestionable truth.
I'm not denying that, but the reason school have been able to increase coaching salaries by as much as they have is because more money was coming in from conference tv network deals, not vice versa.
Right, these are stories and rumors not backed up by actual evidence. If that had been the case for all these years, where is the smoking gun? Though I agree that no evidence of wrongdoing doesn't necessarily mean that there wasn't any, it also doesn't mean that there was.
I think the success that Alabama on the field, combined Saban's ability to get top players exposure on the biggest stage in college football and the lower admissions standard would probably give them a huge advantage in recruiting compared to other teams over the past 17 years. No other team has had close to that level of success over such a long period of time, so it's really not that surprising that it would influence top recruits decisions more so in the days before NIL and free transfers than it does now.
I know we've done well over the last 3 years, but you can't compare a 3 year stretch that has been the most successful for Michigan football since 1997, with the body of work that Saban has had over the past 17 years at Alabama. Additionally, Harbaugh was off interviewing for NFL jobs each of those seasons, so it's no surprise that we weren't able to capitalize further on that in terms of recruiting success.
Besides that, we also have much tougher admissions standards at U of M than they do at Alabama, so even if all other things would be equal, they would have an advantage as far as recruiting. I think that better explains their recruiting success compared to us than the easy (and unverified) excuse that they are paying players when there is no evidence at all to support that other than rumors and speculation.
There is no evidence for the narrative that Saban was paying players, at least nothing other than speculation that it must be so. I don't believe Alabama's recruiting success was due to cheating, I believe that they consistently got the best players because they were consistently winning championships and getting players drafted in the NFL. Saban had his pick of players because they wanted to be a part of that when NIL was not an option.
However, coaches like Saban are also responsible for this mess, because of the grotesquely bloated salaries that they've demanded over the past two decades.
I don't know if it's fair to blame the coaches themselves for the infusion of money into the college game over the past twenty years or so. This is the work of the conferences and the tv networks bidding the contracts up, and to a lesser extent their agents that negotiate the contracts and the consumers that continue to pay for the ever-growing cost of cable/streaming tv services. It's unfortunate that greed on the part of the conferences and tv networks is ruining the very essence of the college game, and I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually kills everything that is good about it, if that hasn't already happened.
They are slowly killing all that is good about college football just to extract a few more bucks before it all collapses. I'm at a point where I don't think I even care anymore. Thank god we have the 2023 title to look back on, because I'm not sure I'll be able to give a damn about college football going forward.
I think I was expecting an actual ticket, with my actual seat number on it, so I was disappointed. Still looks nice I guess, definitely something worth keeping in a keepsakes box to remember, but not as awesome as I thought they were going to be. Either way its a bonus, as I wasn't even expecting this since i purchased tickets on the secondary market.
My comment was regarding how the roster turnover will affect the upcoming season, but glad you think it's a positive. I'd be much happier if some of those guys would have stayed at Michigan another year.
3, maybe 4. Harbaugh has a long record of turning things around and making an impact from the start. Looking forward to seeing what coach can do in the NFL. Hope he scratches that itch and comes back for good when he's ready.
It might have backfired for Reese, but it was "great success" for Michigan fans. He contributed to Alabama losing the Rose Bowl and putting Saban out to pasture.
But that's all a part of the game of football. Teams don't start with the ball on the same spot on the field on every possession. Special teams have an impact, depending on how good/bad punting, kick-off coverage and returning is. Historically these has been strengths for Michigan football, so not being able to have that be a factor in in overtime games is unfortunate.
You could say the same things about 2016. Maybe with different OT rules we win against Ohio State and get to the NCG that year. IIRC we had one of the best special teams in the country, with excellent kickoff coverage and Jabril Peppers returning kicks. It definitely was not to our advantage to leave them out of the equation.
I'm not denying that it's equitable, as both teams get an equal chance, but college OT does take away special teams from the equation. Why would it be any more unfair to have the same OT rules in college as they do in the NFL?
It can't be worse than how it's done in college football, getting rid of kick-offs and punts, and starting with the ball at the 25-yard line. It makes it totally different game, and obviously benefits teams that are better in the redzone.
In honesty, it makes more sense that he interviewed with UCLA, as he was already the OC and interim head coach there in 2017. People hop around when trying to move up, I venture to say that's more of the norm than staying put, though interviewing for another job one month into your new job does appear to be Tennessee-era-Lane-Kiffen-esque.
This is right up there with Brady Hoke's second stint at San Diego State. For those that don't remember, in 2019 Hoke took the DL coach position under Rocky Long, who had succeeded Hoke after he left 9 years prior, only to have Long "retire" in 2020 leaving Hoke as the head coach again, with Long moving on to New Mexico as their DC.
Maybe this is what Kelly is doing, getting his foot in the door prior to Day "retiring" next year leaving Kelly as the Buckeyes head coach.
I moved to Michigan when I was 10 in the summer of 1991. The first question I remember anyone asking me is whether I liked Michigan or Michigan State. Not knowing anything about college athletics, I asked what the difference was, and was told that Michigan's colors were maize and blue, and MSU was green and white. That was all I needed to know, and I declared myself a Michigan fan.
The next thing I know the Fab 5 are taking over basketball and we win the 1997 national championship in football. I've been a fan ever since, but I didn't start watching every Michigan football game since my U of M grad wife and I got together in time for Chad Henne and Mike Hart's first game in 2004. The next 19 years were a blur of ups and downs, but here we are basking in the post national championship glory, knowing that we earned it by getting through the tough times.
I think you did a great job explaining your qualifications and experience, so I don't doubt that you understand how college athletic departments operate. This all sounds very impressive, especially to average people on the blog that have no idea what an AD does. But what makes you think that Warde does not also know how an athletic department should operate as well or better than you do? And what evidence do you have that he is was not prepared? We all know that some key assistant coaches left, but how do you know that Warde doesn't have a plan in place for that much like you did, or that coach Moore doesn't either?
I think without providing actual evidence to support your claims, your post is just speculation, regardless of what your experience and qualifications may be.
You know Charlie Walser's got that place out east of Sanderson? Well, you know how he used to slaughter beeves — hit 'em right there in the forehead with a maul, truss 'em up, and slit their throats? Here, Charlie's got one all trussed up; all set to drain him, and the beef comes to — starts thrashing around: six hundred pounds of very pissed off livestock... you'll excuse the... well. Charlie grabs a gun there [to] shoot the damn thing in the head, but, with all the swingin' and the thrashin', it's a glance shot: ricochets around, comes back, hits Charlie in the shoulder. You go see Charlie: he still can't pick up his right hand for his hat. The point bein' that, even in the contest between man and steer, the issue is not certain.
I could see Moore's first year be more similar to Harbaugh's third given the uncertainty of the QB position next season. Hopefully that doesn't derail his support before he has a chance to really get going.
And yet with Penn State, Maryland and Ohio State on the schedule and the season on the line, Harbaugh picked Moore to be the acting head coach. We all know he delivered. I think that says more about his abilities as a head coach than anything else
Not. Shoulda woulda coulda been part of the Rose Bowl and National Championship winning teams, but instead he went to Iowa and got Iowa'd. Enjoy the decided schematic advantage that is the Ferentz offense next year Cade, instead of starting for the defending champions. Something tells me as long as a Harbaugh and Moore/Minter are here, we'll be ok.
I think they're looking around thinking Day might end up coming out of all of this ahead next year just by sticking around. He can't beat Harbaugh's Michigan, but if Jim heads to the NFL that might not be an issue. Leave it to Ohio State to somehow come out ahead with Michigan winning it all. Hoping Jim sticks around long enough to completely crater their program.
God damn I'm never going to stop hearing "Go Big Blue" from my brother-in-law's hyper-annoying sales guy neighbor if SI is using it too. He's already going to be on one for betting on Michigan to win it all at the beginning of the year, now it's going to be "Go Big Blue" for fucking ever.
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He can also withhold the clapping when appropriate, so he'd be a perfect fit.
But are any of them verified? You can find a lot of shit on the internet, doesn't mean it's true just because someone says it.
Point me to a single story backed up by actual facts and I'll digress.
Ok, that is a different argument than what I thought was being made.
per rivals:
Alabama 2008 #1 class, 3-5* 19-4*. Just a bit ahead of Notre Dame (3-5*, 16 4*), Florida (4-5*, 12-4*) and Ohio (4-5*, 9-4*). First, but not exactly world breaking, although coming after a 7-6 year.
Alabama 2009 #1, 4 5*, 14 4*. Ahead of LSU (4-5*, 11-4*) and USC (4-5*, 11-4*). First again, but similar enough to other top programs, and coming off a 12-2 season.
Alabama 2010 #5 1 5*, 15 4*. Behind USC (4 13), Florida (4-5* 17-4*) Texas (2-5* 19-4*), Auburn (3- 5* 13-4*). This is coming off Saban's first National Championship season. Again, in line with other top programs.
I don't think any of this stuff screams "unprecedented". Did he start off strong? Absolutely! But he was just returning from a stint in the NFL,and had won a national championship at LSU 5 years prior. It's not out of the question that he would be able to use that to help him recruit. And recruiting was in line with what USC, LSU, Texas and Florida were getting at the time as well. It doesn't look like a total outlier to me.
To be clear, I'm not saying he couldn't have possibly been cheating or paying players, I'm saying that the evidence presented is speculation, so we shouldn't treat it as an unquestionable truth.
I'm not denying that, but the reason school have been able to increase coaching salaries by as much as they have is because more money was coming in from conference tv network deals, not vice versa.
Right, these are stories and rumors not backed up by actual evidence. If that had been the case for all these years, where is the smoking gun? Though I agree that no evidence of wrongdoing doesn't necessarily mean that there wasn't any, it also doesn't mean that there was.
I think the success that Alabama on the field, combined Saban's ability to get top players exposure on the biggest stage in college football and the lower admissions standard would probably give them a huge advantage in recruiting compared to other teams over the past 17 years. No other team has had close to that level of success over such a long period of time, so it's really not that surprising that it would influence top recruits decisions more so in the days before NIL and free transfers than it does now.
I know we've done well over the last 3 years, but you can't compare a 3 year stretch that has been the most successful for Michigan football since 1997, with the body of work that Saban has had over the past 17 years at Alabama. Additionally, Harbaugh was off interviewing for NFL jobs each of those seasons, so it's no surprise that we weren't able to capitalize further on that in terms of recruiting success.
Besides that, we also have much tougher admissions standards at U of M than they do at Alabama, so even if all other things would be equal, they would have an advantage as far as recruiting. I think that better explains their recruiting success compared to us than the easy (and unverified) excuse that they are paying players when there is no evidence at all to support that other than rumors and speculation.
There is no evidence for the narrative that Saban was paying players, at least nothing other than speculation that it must be so. I don't believe Alabama's recruiting success was due to cheating, I believe that they consistently got the best players because they were consistently winning championships and getting players drafted in the NFL. Saban had his pick of players because they wanted to be a part of that when NIL was not an option.
I don't know if it's fair to blame the coaches themselves for the infusion of money into the college game over the past twenty years or so. This is the work of the conferences and the tv networks bidding the contracts up, and to a lesser extent their agents that negotiate the contracts and the consumers that continue to pay for the ever-growing cost of cable/streaming tv services. It's unfortunate that greed on the part of the conferences and tv networks is ruining the very essence of the college game, and I wouldn't be surprised if it eventually kills everything that is good about it, if that hasn't already happened.
Seeing how it seems to be an advertisement for whatever crypto currency or nutritional supplements he's hawking these days, I'd say you are correct.
They are slowly killing all that is good about college football just to extract a few more bucks before it all collapses. I'm at a point where I don't think I even care anymore. Thank god we have the 2023 title to look back on, because I'm not sure I'll be able to give a damn about college football going forward.
I think I was expecting an actual ticket, with my actual seat number on it, so I was disappointed. Still looks nice I guess, definitely something worth keeping in a keepsakes box to remember, but not as awesome as I thought they were going to be. Either way its a bonus, as I wasn't even expecting this since i purchased tickets on the secondary market.
a/s/l
My comment was regarding how the roster turnover will affect the upcoming season, but glad you think it's a positive. I'd be much happier if some of those guys would have stayed at Michigan another year.
So does that mean we lose more good players than any of those teams? Because if that's the case, I'm not excited about it.
3, maybe 4. Harbaugh has a long record of turning things around and making an impact from the start. Looking forward to seeing what coach can do in the NFL. Hope he scratches that itch and comes back for good when he's ready.
It might have backfired for Reese, but it was "great success" for Michigan fans. He contributed to Alabama losing the Rose Bowl and putting Saban out to pasture.
But that's all a part of the game of football. Teams don't start with the ball on the same spot on the field on every possession. Special teams have an impact, depending on how good/bad punting, kick-off coverage and returning is. Historically these has been strengths for Michigan football, so not being able to have that be a factor in in overtime games is unfortunate.
You could say the same things about 2016. Maybe with different OT rules we win against Ohio State and get to the NCG that year. IIRC we had one of the best special teams in the country, with excellent kickoff coverage and Jabril Peppers returning kicks. It definitely was not to our advantage to leave them out of the equation.
I'm not denying that it's equitable, as both teams get an equal chance, but college OT does take away special teams from the equation. Why would it be any more unfair to have the same OT rules in college as they do in the NFL?
It can't be worse than how it's done in college football, getting rid of kick-offs and punts, and starting with the ball at the 25-yard line. It makes it totally different game, and obviously benefits teams that are better in the redzone.
In honesty, it makes more sense that he interviewed with UCLA, as he was already the OC and interim head coach there in 2017. People hop around when trying to move up, I venture to say that's more of the norm than staying put, though interviewing for another job one month into your new job does appear to be Tennessee-era-Lane-Kiffen-esque.
Right after he wins a championship. We know the drill.
This is right up there with Brady Hoke's second stint at San Diego State. For those that don't remember, in 2019 Hoke took the DL coach position under Rocky Long, who had succeeded Hoke after he left 9 years prior, only to have Long "retire" in 2020 leaving Hoke as the head coach again, with Long moving on to New Mexico as their DC.
Maybe this is what Kelly is doing, getting his foot in the door prior to Day "retiring" next year leaving Kelly as the Buckeyes head coach.
I moved to Michigan when I was 10 in the summer of 1991. The first question I remember anyone asking me is whether I liked Michigan or Michigan State. Not knowing anything about college athletics, I asked what the difference was, and was told that Michigan's colors were maize and blue, and MSU was green and white. That was all I needed to know, and I declared myself a Michigan fan.
The next thing I know the Fab 5 are taking over basketball and we win the 1997 national championship in football. I've been a fan ever since, but I didn't start watching every Michigan football game since my U of M grad wife and I got together in time for Chad Henne and Mike Hart's first game in 2004. The next 19 years were a blur of ups and downs, but here we are basking in the post national championship glory, knowing that we earned it by getting through the tough times.
I think you did a great job explaining your qualifications and experience, so I don't doubt that you understand how college athletic departments operate. This all sounds very impressive, especially to average people on the blog that have no idea what an AD does. But what makes you think that Warde does not also know how an athletic department should operate as well or better than you do? And what evidence do you have that he is was not prepared? We all know that some key assistant coaches left, but how do you know that Warde doesn't have a plan in place for that much like you did, or that coach Moore doesn't either?
I think without providing actual evidence to support your claims, your post is just speculation, regardless of what your experience and qualifications may be.
These two definitely fucked, and it involved several bottles of Cheese Whiz and a hot dog roller machine.
You know Charlie Walser's got that place out east of Sanderson? Well, you know how he used to slaughter beeves — hit 'em right there in the forehead with a maul, truss 'em up, and slit their throats? Here, Charlie's got one all trussed up; all set to drain him, and the beef comes to — starts thrashing around: six hundred pounds of very pissed off livestock... you'll excuse the... well. Charlie grabs a gun there [to] shoot the damn thing in the head, but, with all the swingin' and the thrashin', it's a glance shot: ricochets around, comes back, hits Charlie in the shoulder. You go see Charlie: he still can't pick up his right hand for his hat. The point bein' that, even in the contest between man and steer, the issue is not certain.
The answer I was looking for is NOOOOOBOOODY! But you are correct.
Who got it righter than Seth?
Except that 60% of the time, it works every time.
I could see Moore's first year be more similar to Harbaugh's third given the uncertainty of the QB position next season. Hopefully that doesn't derail his support before he has a chance to really get going.
The truth is truly true.
Right, they do not own a building to burn down.
What building?
If there's an Orji is in the end zone, we all score.
The guy that went 36-34 at Purdue? This is the guy you think we should get?
And yet with Penn State, Maryland and Ohio State on the schedule and the season on the line, Harbaugh picked Moore to be the acting head coach. We all know he delivered. I think that says more about his abilities as a head coach than anything else
I think that Hoek has changed the tide on the rivalry.
Not so fast. You are forgetting about Icelandic Eurovision sensation Lars Erickssong.
Exactly. The coaching staff only won it this year because they finally decided listen to advice offered by random posters on MGoblog.
Yeah, I have a feeling he'll go 3-0 vs Ohio State and win a National Championship.
Not sure that's a great idea. Nobody wants to be Frosty seconds.
Not. Shoulda woulda coulda been part of the Rose Bowl and National Championship winning teams, but instead he went to Iowa and got Iowa'd. Enjoy the decided schematic advantage that is the Ferentz offense next year Cade, instead of starting for the defending champions. Something tells me as long as a Harbaugh and Moore/Minter are here, we'll be ok.
I think they're looking around thinking Day might end up coming out of all of this ahead next year just by sticking around. He can't beat Harbaugh's Michigan, but if Jim heads to the NFL that might not be an issue. Leave it to Ohio State to somehow come out ahead with Michigan winning it all. Hoping Jim sticks around long enough to completely crater their program.
Don’t really like” big…
God damn I'm never going to stop hearing "Go Big Blue" from my brother-in-law's hyper-annoying sales guy neighbor if SI is using it too. He's already going to be on one for betting on Michigan to win it all at the beginning of the year, now it's going to be "Go Big Blue" for fucking ever.
*40-3. Pull it down!
"Pull it down!"
It seemed to me that it was about 65-70% Michigan fans. We overheard one Bama fan we walked by telling his friend that "it's a fucking away game".
How does one find out which sections are Michigan and which are Alabama?
It's because the internet.