Ranking Team 135's position groups

Submitted by ADSellers on

Here's my ranking of this year's position groups in terms of talent/experience/depth/overall expectations. I may feel differently about these once the BTN report on their visit today airs later this evening. Let me know if you guys agree or disagree:

1. Linebackers: This group includes our best overall football player in Jake Ryan. Des Morgan is now an expereinced senior who has improved every year, and reports of Joe Bolden's development have been as positive as any player on the team. Ross, Royce, and McCray provide solid  depth here. Edit: As two posters below pointed out, I should have mentioned Gedeon here as well. 

2. Secondary: Countess has been outstanding during his career and Taylor is an above average B10 corner. Wilson is one of the better safeties in the B10 IMO and there's lots of younger talent here like D. Thomas and Peppers.

3. Receivers: Funchess could be the top receiver in the league this year. Reports on Canteen have been as positive as any freshman receiver since Manningham and the film we've seen appears to back those reports up. No one has seen Darboh play in a winged helmet but we've all read how the coaches feel about him. Lots of young talent backing up this group as well.

4. Quarterbacks: DEPTH! FINALLY! Devin was one of the most productive QBs in the conference last year while at the same time being one of the most error prone. Having a paper thin O-line didn't help him any but many of his mistakes weren't due to O-line play. Having Nuss coach from the sidelines this year is a great move that will hopefully make Devin more confident and less error prone. Shane showed in the bowl game that he can step in and take over if need be. 

5. D-Line: Clark is back for his senior season and appears hungy and confident. Expectations are high for Taco and Beyer is a solid End now in his 4th year who has made some nice plays. Ojemudia should provide a nice change of pace as well. DT is the big question with this group since all we have to go on is potential. Reports on Wormley have been good but beyond that no one knows much else other than Pipkins was once a 5-star who maybe one day could (hopefully) be a productive tackle, possibly. 

6. Running Backs: Lots of talent that needs to translate into production this year. Isaac is the X-factor here my gut tells me that if we've already had to wait this long for word on his eligibility, then it's going to be a while before we get to see him play (i.e., 2015). Drake Johnson emerging as the top RB in practice last week surprised many of us but when you consider that he ran for 2,800 yards and 37 TDs as a HS senior perhaps we should not have overlooked him. 

7. O-Line: we have lots of beefy bodies to choose from here but after the the head scratcher that the O-line was last season who knows what to expect. Maybe Nuss is the guy that can finally make this group look like a serviceable, middle-of-the-road B10 line. 

Edit: The BTN guys watching practice today appear to be very high on our D-Line. They singled out several players and said we're right on par with OSU (which Revsine described to Sam Webb this morning as a bunch of monsters). I feel really good about these reports and would probably move the DL group above QB at this point. 

Tuebor

August 11th, 2014 at 9:33 AM ^

5.2 YPA in the bowl game hardly has me believing that Shane is ready to step in and take over.  Still, having four scholarship QBs on the roster and no injuries is a good sign.

club2230

August 11th, 2014 at 11:22 AM ^

I think a lot of this thinking is the comparison of Shane to Russell.  It was pretty clear that Shane was not overwhelmed in his first real appearance whereas Russell was. 

What we now optimistically believe is that Shane can follow the normal progression from backup to solid starter.  While he is only a sophomore and needs to improve there is hope based on his performance.  It will be a step down from Shane to Gardner, but there is hope that if Devin goes down we won't lose the rest of our games. 

WRT Russell he may have gotten over his experience and could be much better now than he was at Nebraska. 

Tuebor

August 11th, 2014 at 11:36 AM ^

Morris had 15 practices of nothing but 1st team reps to prepare for the bowl game and produced 196 yds on 38 attempts.  Hopefully that was the Borges factor but I still think if Morris starts any games this season we will be back in a December bowl game.

 

 

Tuebor

August 11th, 2014 at 12:23 PM ^

No doubt the running game was non-existent for Morris.  But it isn't like Bellomy had much help either.  Take out Denard's rushing from the 2012 Nebraska game and we had 49 yards on 29 attempts.  The non-Denard run game has been horrible the last two years. 

unWavering

August 11th, 2014 at 10:00 AM ^

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't our secondary rated in the top 15 or so in pass efficiency D in 2012? Even last year with our less aggressive defense, the secondary was most definitely not the problem. They actually forced as many turnovers as MSU.

Perkis-Size Me

August 11th, 2014 at 1:32 PM ^

They were, but you're failing to take into account how atrociously bad the conference as a whole was in the passing game that year. We played two teams with legit passing games that year, Bama and South Carolina, and our secondary got lit up by both of them. South Carolina especially. We couldn't stop the big play to save our own lives.

That high 2012 ranking was more a product of being in a bad conference. I think even Minnesota was top 10 or 15 in pass defense that year. That should tell you what you need to know.

Sauce Castillo

August 11th, 2014 at 9:46 AM ^

1) LB's

2) Secondary

3) QB's

4) WR's / TE's

5) RB's

6) DL

7) OL

I second Schembo's statement about Gedeon, soooo deep at LB.  RB's are underrated I think and just need a little more help from OL.  Isn't it exciting to have optimistic conversations about this team and depth?!?! Finally 

The Baughz

August 11th, 2014 at 9:57 AM ^

I agree with you Sweet Hawaiian Onion. This would have been the way I would have ranked position groups. If 6 and 7 are still 6 and 7 at the end the year, it will be another long year. It starts up front on both sides of the ball, and if both of those areas dont improve, I'd expect another 7 win season. However, I fully expect both of these groups to be much better, thus, leading to 9-10 win season at the minimun. 

bamf16

August 11th, 2014 at 9:57 AM ^

 

1. Linebackers:  Arguing over Jake Ryan as UM's best football player may be an exercise in futility, but he may be, he may not be.  I see Morgan's PT diminishing pretty quickly as younger, more athletic, bigger LBs get on the field.  I think Ryan and Gedeon may be the best two LBs on the team, with Bolden's stock rapidly rising, with McCray and RJS not all that far behind.  Morgan and Ross are going to have to compete hard for the same level of PT they got last year.

 

2. Secondary:  Agreed on Countess, not so much on Taylor.  Though this year's DL and its ability to get a pass rush up the middle should help Taylor more than Countess who's a little better at holding coverage, I'm not ready to put Taylor above the mass of other CBs and say he's above average.  He could be this year, but also could not.  There are a lot of young guys on the outside with Lewis supposedly knocking the loudest.  At safety, Wilson did some good things last year but I'm not ready to call him one of the better safeties in the B1G.  I'm also looking forward to seeing what Thomas and Peppers do.  I thought Thomas might beat out Hill for the starting job even before Hill broke his jaw.  But all things considered, I guess I haven't bought in to the Secondary as much as you have.

 

3. Receivers:  Everyone was high on Darboh going into last season, and Funchess really impressed with some of the plays he made and athletic ability he displayed.  But he drops the ball too much and Darboh doesn't have a catch yet.  Canteen did some nice things in the slot in the little bit of the spring game that actually looked like football.  There's talent at this position, but a lot of question marks.

 

4. Quarterbacks:  The depth is a relief.  Hopefully we never again have to watch a QB do what Bellomy did at Nebraska, and we never see a UM QB who played meaningful minutes end up with as many completions as interceptions at season's end.  The depth also means that if Gardner goes down to injury, UM coaches don't have to try to finagle a way to redshirt Morris this year at the detriment of winning games this year and/or failing to get Morris ready for a full season in '15.

 

5. D-Line:  Hopefully one of two things happens.  1) they stop the G-damn  DL rotation for the sake of having a DL rotation or 2) the talent is good enough that we fans don't even realize there's a rotation.  From a size/speed standpoint, I like a DL of Charlton-Pipkins-Wormley-Clark.  If Clark goes down or comes out, Charlton goes to his spot (Poggi and Strobel behind him) and then on the weakside, Ojemudia and Beyer back up Charlton or spell him if need be.  Inside, Henry backs up both spots but that's a noticeable drop to him at both positions.  The depth at the NT/DT position group may be most noticeable.  We may see more of Glasgow and Bodin than we'd like.  I wouldn't mind seeing Pipkins at 316-320, up from the 306 he is now, assuming the knee can handle it.  If Pipkins falters, that's two 5* DTs with offers from seemingly everyone and their mother that comes to UM and busts.

 

6. Running Backs:  If Johnson's back to 100%, Smith stays healthy, and Green is to a point he can spell for a bit or become a short yardage back, the Isaac waiver is a non-issue, because he might just redshirt anyways.  With those three and Justice Hayes, selling this to Isaac as "you've only been here a few weeks" may be doable.  But if any of my previous "ifs" don't pan out, and Johnson's lost a step, Smith can't handle 25+ carries/game and wears down, and Green struggles with production and weight, the waiver for Isaac actually becomes important for this year.  Personally, I'm not liking what I've seen so far from Green (though it's being judged against lofty expectations) vs. what Smith and even Hayes have done.  I think Smith could be a 900-1100 yard guy this year.  I could also see Ty Isaac being the starting RB in '15.  How with Johnson's stats was UM his only "real" offer?!  I don't care about a 3* rating, but UM only had to compete with Eastern Michigan to get him.  Were there other issues with which I'm not aware?  

 

7. O-Line:  Lots of youth, TONS of talent.  A simplified blocking scheme increases the importance of talent of the OL guy over the DL guy.  That should help.

ADSellers

August 11th, 2014 at 10:32 AM ^

It's important that we keep our expectations realistic regading Drake Johnson. He had a nice HS career but keep in mind that Rawls set numerous state records and was touted as one of our top backs in practice, and he never panned out. Hoping to be pleasantly surprised though. His recruitment was just so odd when you consider both of his parents went to Michigan, his Mom works at Michigan, he played in the shadow of the Big House at Pioneer, he nearly set the state single-season rushing record, and yet he wasn't recruited by anybody and only received a Michigan offer in the 11th hour of the recruiting cycle. I don't think "yeah but he was focused on track and didn't attend camps" sufficiently explains it. 

ca_prophet

August 11th, 2014 at 4:14 PM ^

While I don't agree with your opinion - I think it's pretty explicable and that it doesn't really matter now except as narrative surrounding whatever actual results he puts up - you expressed it without being insulting and hence didn't deserve the negs.

alum96

August 11th, 2014 at 11:09 AM ^

It is going to be interesting to see how the DL plays out as a whole.  I am seeing Beyer wearing down at 256 lbs as a DE... rather than who starts I will be interested in who really plays the most and where.  The wildcard being Wormley.  He was the only guy listed in the spring as DL rather than DT or DE.  If you want a run stuffing line you throw Wormley out to the end with Henry and Pipkins inside and Clark on the other side.  I like that group of 4.. but it depends on Hurst and I guess Mone developing in the interior as the 2nd rotation to allow it.  Hurst still seems a bit undersized for a ton of snaps inside but he has finally breached 280 lbs.  Meanwhile Wormley is 295 but seems to have the agility of a guy in the 270s.  To top it off I remember in the OSU game seeing Charlton inside on passing downs (he is only about 5 lbs less than Hurst) so it will be interesting how Mattison has these guys positioned.

p.s. what the heck happened to Strobel?  That was a good mid level recruit that seems to have disappeared in much of this talk.

Avon Barksdale

August 11th, 2014 at 9:57 AM ^

I'm going to take a different approach:

1.) Quarterbacks - We return Gardner whom got crushed all year and still threw for 3000 yards and accounted for 32 TD's.

2.) Linebackers - Ryan, Ross, Bolden, and Morgan have all played a great deal of football at Michigan. Gedeon is a freak of nature and RJ Stone provides depth if injury occurs.

3.) Defensive backs - Our 2 CB's were #1 and #2 respectively last year in B1G Interceptions and truth be told it was a piss poor "bend but don't break scheme." Wilson is a veteran safety and there is an abundance of choices at nickel and the other safety spot.

4.) Running backs - It's not a lack of talent in the backfield if we don't run the ball well. Smith, Green, Isaac, D. Johnson, and Justice Hayes provide one of the deepest position groups in the nation - they are just very young.

5.) Receivers/Tight Ends - Funchess, Darboh, Canteen, and Jake Butt (if he is healthy) would give Gardner everything he needs to be successful. Throw in Chesson and AJ Williams and you have some experienced depth.

6.) Defensive line - Talent is there, just have to put it together. Clark and Beyer have played a lot of snaps. Pipkins, if healthy, can be a difference maker in the middle. Throw in Taco, Wormley, Henry, and Mario and you have people who have played snaps but have yet to produce at the level we need.

7.) Offensive line - How can you not put them 7th at this point? We have no idea who the starters are this season. Next season, I think this group could be in the #1 or #2 range because we literally lose not one offensive linemen after this season. I'll go with a lineup of Mags, Cole, Glasgow, Kalis, Braden and say it will be improved from a year ago.

B1G_Fan

August 11th, 2014 at 11:58 AM ^

There are a lot of ifs when dealing with the offensive line.If Braden is struggling at right tackle, why not kick Cole to the right side if he is truly challenging at the left side. If Miller is doing a great job at center, why not kick GLasgow over to the right ride. If Miller is serviceable at Center and you want your "best guys on the field" ( going from practice hype only here) Mags at LT , Cole LG, Miller center, Kalis RG and Glasgow at RT

LSAClassOf2000

August 11th, 2014 at 9:57 AM ^

I would tend to agree with the assessmen that we are perhaps set up best in terms of stability and depth and linebacker. As for the defensive backfield, I can agree with the ranking here as well, particularly if we factor in potential now. If both of these units are doing what we think they can, we're definitely in good shape overall on defense. 

As for the offensive line, the OP alludes to it, but it is worth repeating - even a mid-range OL this year probably could get us a win here and there in closer games if the offense if otherwise humming along. It has been my feeling that some of the errors mentioned here in regards to Devin Gardner were more "forced decisions" (therefore, explainable) from our problems up front. We don't need miracles on the OL this year, just a measured improvement. 

turd ferguson

August 11th, 2014 at 10:01 AM ^

That looks about right to me.  I'd probably go with something like:

 

1. LB
.
2. QB
3. DB
4. WR
5. DL
.
6. RB
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
7. OL

 


The OL is so important this year.  We have a very nice looking roster - though it'll be even nicer next year - and then one enormous, enormous question mark.

aiglick

August 11th, 2014 at 10:27 AM ^

I'm not sure if you're talking about OL for that question mark but breaking in a junior QB who will hopefully see relatively few snaps this year could be interesting. Yeah he'll have been here for two years but other then a decent, considering he was a true freshman, outing in a bowl game we haven't seen much from Morris yet. Just goes to show there is almost never going to be a year where everything is aligned perfectly for a great year. Coaches have got to be able to adjust and maximize the roster they created and/or inherited. Just win honestly.

reshp1

August 11th, 2014 at 10:31 AM ^

I'm surprised you guys think secondary is so strong. Countess and Taylor are both good players, but they haven't really shown they can play the tight press/man coverage we are supposedly going to play. Wilson is solid at FS, but unproven depth behind him. The FS position is still a bit question mark. Stribling, Lewis, and of course Peppers add some great young talent, but all are still unproven.

 

ADSellers

August 11th, 2014 at 10:35 AM ^

On the one hand, yeah, we have the same guys returning who struggled at times, but on the other hand, that means we have a lot of experience at the position. Starting a pair of senior corners sounds good to me. The talent is definitely there and our hope is that the mistakes can/will be erased with experience and continued coaching, as opposed to them simply lacking the football instincts or talent to play the position. 

BlueinLansing

August 11th, 2014 at 10:35 AM ^

receivers can be rated so high considering Funchess is really the only proven product.  WR is a big question mark for me, one step ahead of the offensive line.

 

I hold great promise for the WR's but they definately need to prove it on the field.

alum96

August 11th, 2014 at 10:56 AM ^

Agree 100%.  There is 1 proven quantity in that unit.  If you believe Chesson (15 catches last year) is the 4th WR it means the 2nd and 3rd WRs have never caught a college pass.   Assuming those 2 are Darboh and Canteen.  Your 5th WR (Jones?) likewise has been a special teams player.

This breakdown highlights how on offense outside of QB almost everything is a projection.  I'd list as known quantities - Devin, Funchess, Butt*, Glasgow.  That's really it.  You could throw AJ Williams in there I suppose.  And Glasgow is a stretch because it is difficult to assess what he is; the least inconsistent of the returning linemen I guess.

At the end of September we at least have some data points on the offense, right now it's just uncertain.

alum96

August 11th, 2014 at 10:42 AM ^

Am I the only one more optimistic about the DTs than the DEs?  I think Clark will improve incrementally as he has every year, and Beyer will be a solid if undersized end.  ( I was hoping to see this poor guy closer to 265 rather than the mid 250s on the weight chart)  I am worried how he will hold the point of attack on running plays against 300 lb tackles.  Outside of that you have Charlton who is mostly promise (have not heard much hype about him in spring like others on the DL) at this point, and Mario O who is sort of "there" thus far in his career.  Poggi is an outlier who we have not heard much camp hype about either - he is still a youngster so not worried about it.  So it's an ok group of 5, with Clark the one guy who stands out at this point. 

Meanwhile you have a plethora of interesting players at the DTs.  Yes aside from Pipkins all underclassmen BUT we saw flashes from Wormley and Henry last year that you have not seen the equivalent out of in say a Mario O for his position.  Hurst is getting a lot of talk - both during bowl practices and this spring.  Mone is a giant of a man and could reprise the role of Pipkins 2 years ago as a rotational DT.  So those 5 to me seem to have a lot more exciting upside than the ends at this point in their careers.  Maybe I am extrapolating far too  much from what I saw of Wormley and Henry last year but they were very young player who have another year of strength under their belt and Wormley now well over a year removed from an ACL.  Pipkins should be at the age he begins to fulfill his promise and Hurst is at that age he becomes that guy in the 2nd rotation who you notice.  You could do worse than Mone and a guy like Godin (or Glasgow or maybe Strobel) as your 3rd rotation who get 8-12 plays a game.

I don't know - from this point of view I see a lot of somewhat known quantities in 3 of our top 4 DEs (Charlton being the outlier) where any number of our top 4 DTs (3s or 5s) could turn into something special this year or show the type of ability that they will enter next year as All Big 10 1st team preseason.

reshp1

August 11th, 2014 at 11:52 AM ^

I agree. I picked Henry as my break-out guy from spring 2013 and his upside plays definitely lived up to that. He also had a lot of downside plays, but another year should see those cleaned up dramatically. Pipkins was rounding into form right before he got hurt. Limited sample size is limited, but from the "Michigan Drill" video, he certainly doesn't seem to have lost any of his quickness and burst. Hurst and Wormley both have huge upside athletically and should be quality depth. You also have Mone, who is pretty impressive for a Freshman that can sub in at the NT spot if Pipkins isn't able to play full reps yet.

Yeezus

August 11th, 2014 at 10:39 AM ^

I think our defensive backs are the best position group, by far.  I think JD Lewis is going to be very hard to keep off the field this year, and you won't see Ray Taylor getting benched as a senior.  In my eyes we will see, either:

- CBs: Countess, Taylor (with Taylor giving some reps to Lewis)

- Nickel: Peppers

- SS: D. Thomas / J. Clark

- FS: J. Wilson

Or:

- CBs: Taylor, Lewis

- Nickel: Countess

- SS: D. Thomas / Peppers

- FS: J. Wilson

I like our linebackers, as well - but mainly because of depth purposes (Bolden, Gedeon).  QB/WR are the next two, in some order - the potential to throw out Funchess, Darboh, Canteen, and Butt by B1G season is the best grouping of receivers we've had since the Carr days.  And well, Devin is the man and Shane is a capable back up.  

alum96

August 11th, 2014 at 10:50 AM ^

Difficult  to peg a position group as the top on the team when we don't even know 1 of our starters.  Or in theory if you count DBs as 5 positions, we probably only know 3 of the starters.  Further if Wilson gets injured at any point this year you are running out there with 2 underclassmen safeties who at this point have a combined 0 games started and nearly that much played in a base defense (excluding special teams play).  If any of the linebackers on the other hand gets hurt you have players who have at least some experience coming in.  Your top position group should be able to absorb an injury - I don't think the safeties can.

If I list the DBs right now as a group of 5 the probable lineup is

CB/CB/S - known quantities

S/NB - anywhere from never played college football to scraps in a few games late.

So that's 40% of your defensive backfield starting with little to no experience.  Not sure how you can judge that unit - if your assumption is the 2 are Peppers and Thomas that's 2 great unknown quantities.  Meanwhile aside from Gedeon you can build an entire 2 deep of linebackers who have a significant amount of playing time in their history. 

I think if you are just talking cornerbacks we have another discussion. 

Yeezus

August 11th, 2014 at 11:03 AM ^

1) You can definitely make the argument about depth.  

2) I am not sure of your rankings, but if LBs are #1 - we don't even know one of our starters for that grouping, either (WLB - Bolden or Morgan).  

3) I am also not sure who else you can build outside of Gedeon to have a stable of experienced LBs.  RJS doesn't have it.  Neither does McCray.  You essentially have Ryan, Ross, and Morgan with the heavily-experienced Bolden and the heavily-talented Gedeon backing them up.

Regardless, it's a nice argument to have.  I just think that JD Lewis is going to be something special, and Peppers will be as well.  Wilson is vastly underrated by our fan base, and our hole at SS will be figured out before long (and is the least worrisome of issues in the defensive backfield when it comes to inexperience).  

 

alum96

August 11th, 2014 at 11:27 AM ^

Yes but on point #2 we are picking among 2 guys with plenty of experience in the LBs.  For our 2nd safety spot we are picking between 2 guys with almost none.  And our NB is most likely going to be a true freshmen.  So all my starters at LBs are known quantities, whereas 40% of my DB will be guys getting their first taste of extensive playing time.

I think what I (you) see is a secondary with a higher ceiling but a lower floor than the LBs.  There are 4 relatively known quantities for 3 spots in the LBs.  Whereas I'd argue 3 known quantities for 4 (or 5) open spots in the secondary.  Lewis is like Bolden right now - a guy who has played, has done ok, but is getting talked up in camp.  But if Lewis and Taylor are the starting CBs and Countess goes to NB that alleviates the issue by half.

  I also think people forget how damn good JMFR was 2 years ago.  I don't think Countess as a CB was at the same level in 2011 or 2013 as Ryan was as a LB in 2012.  I also think James Ross III takes a lot of junk on these boards.  If he had a quality DL in front of him I think Ross would be a 2nd team All Big 10 caliber player... already. But with his size he needs to be kept clean - if I could put him in Gedeon's body it would be nice.

With the secondary you have a potential high ceiling player in Lewis, a potential high ceiling player in Peppers - a very good (not "outstanding") CB in Countess and an ok corner in Taylor.  We did get picks out of those 2 guys but our pass defense was quite bad in general; in between the picks were a lot of plays our CBs were not in the same TV screen as a WR.  If you want to blame that on the DEs not getting pressure I guess you can but it's usually a combination of the DL/secondary. 

I agree RJS is not a known quantity - I am sort of going on practice talk for this one rather than actual games so he is a stretch. I really am not counting on McCray at this point as he seems to be the "7th LB".

Mgoscottie

August 11th, 2014 at 11:22 AM ^

quarterbacks #1 and I don't think anyone other group is close.  Gardner is something special in my opinion and might win a Heisman if we win enough games.  

Linebackers #2

Then #3-#6 are all close together and with large variances for each.  

Then O-line.

MGoLogan

August 11th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^

I agree with your comment for the most part, I would just have LB #1 and QB #2 due to the fact that LB has more "proven" depth.  I think Devin is a special talent and is going to have a fantastic year, but I'm not completely sold on Shane being ready at this point.  

1) LB - Best unit in the conference, in my opinion. 

2) QB - Some will disagree, but I think Devin is a first round NFL talent.

3) CB/S - With Countess back at 100%, experience in Taylor and Wilson mixed with huge talents like Lewis, Stribling, Thomas, and Peppers, this group could be #1 by the end of the season.

4) WR - Some will point to lack of experience, but no denying the talent

5) DL - Clark is an All-Big Ten player, Beyer is experienced, if a bit limited physically.  Pipkins, Henry, Wormley, Taco, etc. all have huge upsides.  

6) RB - See WR's, with a slightly lower ceiling. 

7) OL - Obvs.  

JayMo4

August 11th, 2014 at 11:30 AM ^

I like every position group on this team except for O-line.  Maybe I'm a homer, but I think this is a Big 10 title-worthy squad at most or all other positions.  It's really a matter of how much the line holds us back.  I think that if you took this OL group and aged them all two years and dropped them back into the line-up, we'd probably run the table this year.

Now someone help me figure out how to go about that sort of thing....