November 9th, 2021 at 12:21 AM ^
We all expected the first one.
But wow—crazy clear video evidence on the second.
November 9th, 2021 at 12:27 AM ^
It’s not clear. Where is his left hand? My point is, the play can be viewed differently by different people. To claim there’s incontrovertible evidence on either side is ridiculous. The call should have stood as it was originally called.
November 9th, 2021 at 12:30 AM ^
His right hand has come off the ball. He does not have control.
November 9th, 2021 at 9:57 AM ^
I took a lot of negs for pointing out that you can’t see his left hand from that picture. The comment I was responding to said that one picture was clear evidence. It wasn’t, as shown by all the people referring to the other views of the play. What I saw was the back of his left hand on the ball when his shin hit. I don’t think you can control a ball by pressing it into your body with the back of your ring finger and pinky. Again, I would have let the play stand, but to claim it is incontrovertibly a fumble just shows your bias.
I saw a Bears’ catch in MNF last night that I thought for sure was going to be overturned because he was bobbling it through the act of the catch and it came out when he hit the ground. They reviewed and called it a catch.
November 9th, 2021 at 11:45 AM ^
It's not about bias. I would have no issue saying the play should have stood as called from a fan's perspective because then it's still a TD.
What you're arguing is just plainly false because, as is commonly done, you can use multiple angles to establish where his left hand was and he lost control at contact.
The only arguable point is not his left hand, it's whether you could say he regained possession for a split second before losing it again. But I think that's also bogus and just an artifact of slow mo. I would argue that it's one continuous process of a fumble initiated at contact.
November 9th, 2021 at 12:38 AM ^
You can see where his left hand is from the camera angle from the front. His left hand has not yet contacted the ball by the time it starts coming loose from his right hand. He loses control of the ball from the initial impact from Ojabo. It is falling downward out of his right hand from the impact, and he tries to stop it with his left hand. The ball is completely out of his hands by the time he hits the ground.
November 9th, 2021 at 1:16 AM ^
You can't be serious??? The replay from the front angle clearly shows that Ojabo has Thorne left wrist in his grasp and not even touching the ball.
This was an atrocious reversal from the replay ref, certainly someone who was trying too hard to find something....anything.....
November 9th, 2021 at 2:08 AM ^
Sparty Bob was the replay official.
November 9th, 2021 at 6:53 AM ^
More like Jim Joyce.
November 9th, 2021 at 7:01 AM ^
Jim Joyce would have gotten it right upon review
November 9th, 2021 at 9:46 AM ^
Replay review is a nightmare from which we're trying to awake.
November 9th, 2021 at 10:52 AM ^
We need a replay of the replay.
November 9th, 2021 at 6:51 AM ^
repeating this here: there was a camera angle that was from the front, basically where the Will LB would be if he was simply looking at the QB. they only showed that replay one time in the sequence of different angles. in that replay you could see that upon the initial hit the ball WENT UP and was never in control after that point. the picture in that embed is actually after that, and as the ball has already begun descending along with the QB. the ball falls in roughly the same pattern and pace as the QB, but is never controlled. the focus on the whole 'his shin was/might've been down' is and was wrong. the ball was out long before that.
November 9th, 2021 at 7:23 AM ^
Exactly this. I was of the belief that it was a 50/50 event (still, not overturn-able) until I saw what you saw- Ball is clearly jarred loose and falling with the QB's hand. It moves back in his hand is no longer in his control. It bounces freely when it hits his lap. His hand is moving with it trying to trap it, he does not have control of it.
November 9th, 2021 at 9:59 AM ^
Yeah I forget what angle it was, but I thought there was a clear shot right when his shin hits where you can see the ball, clear as day, sitting nearly on top of his hand, but not actually in his hand. I figure that's what confused the officials. The ball does jump up before coming back to nearly rest in his palm (but not under control) before squirreling away when he goes to the ground.
The fact that it somehow became a reversal off of that is incredible misapplication of the rules.
November 9th, 2021 at 3:14 PM ^
That was the most aggravating part, that they showed that one conclusive front angle exactly once, just before the ref made one of the worst replay calls ever. If he's looking at that, I can't see how even Paul Finebaum can miss it.
November 9th, 2021 at 7:40 AM ^
The video from the front in fact clearly shows the ball loose, and is conclusive. The fact that the call on the field was overturned is right up there with the worst screw jobs Michigan has endured.
November 9th, 2021 at 10:30 AM ^
It really is. If the call on the field had been no fumble, I could see calling that a 'play stands'. Maybe.
How you go from a fumble on the field to conclusive evidence it was not a fumble on replay review is beyond words. Is it corrupt? I don't know. How do you go to replay and overturn that?
November 9th, 2021 at 8:14 AM ^
He's a right handed QB, where the DE swiped down on his throwing hand, which he tried to bring into his body to keep from fumbling. No matter, it's over, lets move on.
November 9th, 2021 at 6:30 AM ^
Congratulations to Aidan Hutchinson!!! Those are great grades to have one of, let alone both!!
As for the strip-sack, if you slow down 4K video to watch it frame by frame then you're watching 60 frames per second one at a time. Even jumping 5-10 frames per shot shows you several frames inside one second of real time. If you say he had possession because of a few frames when his knee looked down (whether you can definitely call that, or not (you can't)), is that ~1/10th second of time actually showing you possession? I don't think so...
There is no basis to have overturned that call, and the B1G should be broadcasting that publicly. It shouldn't be up to a reporter asking Harbaugh about it.
November 9th, 2021 at 7:02 AM ^
Every time I see this crap it just makes me more angry. The worst part was although it obviously shouldn't have been overturned, I told the people I was watching the game with that they would reverse the call anyway, and they did. Fuck refs, man. They are ruining sports. NFL refs are even bumping into players on purpose to throw flags now. Lol
November 9th, 2021 at 7:20 AM ^
Me too. There is no consequence. I sure hope we beat PSU convincingly this weekend. Glad it is down to OSU game. I know Sparty can still technically beat PSU and OSU, but I don't see it happening. If Purdue can contain KW to 84 yards on 22 carries (?), I think PSU and OSU will keep him in check.
November 9th, 2021 at 7:05 AM ^
Thanks for posting about Hutchinson. The info is interesting.
It also solved a problem I didn't realize I had. Every time during a game or on MGoBlog that someone praised him, part of me hesitated. Knowing how much memes & narratives get repeated, I unconsciously mistrusted the praise as too good to be true, just another story line.
So seeing the numbers calms my worry. He really IS as good as people say.
November 9th, 2021 at 7:16 AM ^
He truly is playing like a November Heisman candidate and not as a September Heisman candidate. Too bad he doesn't have the raw stats which is what the media loves.
November 9th, 2021 at 9:16 AM ^
Yeah. It's hard to see anyone who plays on the line ever winning the Heisman, though I assume that any smart coach considers at least some of the good ones as the best players on the team.
November 9th, 2021 at 9:56 AM ^
Not only can he be praised on NEARLY every play (if analysts are making up stats that measure almost everything, I'd love to see a "disruption" stat), but the fact that he's playing NEARLY every snap is probably even more amazing. He's got to have a 90-95% snap percentage...during non-garbage game time, which is astounding for the amount of energy/effort he expends on most plays.
November 9th, 2021 at 7:24 AM ^
Look at those guns!
November 9th, 2021 at 7:57 AM ^
obligatory: user name checks out
November 9th, 2021 at 9:09 AM ^
Sun’s out, guns out!
November 9th, 2021 at 7:35 AM ^
He should be a front runner for the Heisman; especially this year. Is there any other player on either side of the ball who is objectively able to make a big play every single play? He is the most impactful player I have seen all season. He hasn’t had a bad game, shoot, he hasn’t had a bad quarter.
November 9th, 2021 at 7:52 AM ^
Hate to say this, but I really wish he ended up in a Lions uniform. I know what that means, but I would like to watch the NFL with a dog in the fight.
Also, I'm done looking back at the replay overturn. I was willing to give the officials the benefit of the doubt in 2016, though I believe JT was short. But two weeks ago was so egregiously bad, that it's not worth my sanity to look at it again.
November 9th, 2021 at 8:48 AM ^
To have all of these writers in the Detroit papers making it sound like Harbaugh is a crybaby for talking about the officiating and that Tucker is a saint for stating that you can't complain about officiating is a joke. Of course Tuckers going to say that. He was on the fortuitous side of really bad calls against his biggest rival. He also wants to keep his "Mr. Tough Guy" act up to keep his appeal alive with LSU.
November 9th, 2021 at 10:08 AM ^
Turns out Mel is simply towing the company line (because he hasn't been on the wrong end of really bad call like Jim). Props to Jim in this case for taking the officials to task rather than accepting a private "Whoops" for all the good that does.
https://twitter.com/ESPNRittenberg/status/1457872707824066564
Big Ten coaches have agreed to maintain an open dialogue with officiating coordinator Bill Carollo about games and calls, with the understanding that feedback won’t be made public. https://t.co/fEXj01My4M
— Adam Rittenberg (@ESPNRittenberg) November 9, 2021
https://twitter.com/RainerSabin/status/1457865148538970115
(2/2) The person in the Big Ten office was a "little surprised" Harbaugh made public comments about the correspondence/conversation because "confidentiality exists there."
— Rainer Sabin (@RainerSabin) November 9, 2021
November 9th, 2021 at 10:46 AM ^
Fuck the Big Ten office! This 'private conversation' has most likely been on since the season started - so what the hell good has it been doing? Besides, Harbaugh answered a question - WTH is supposed to do? If he doesn't answer he gets dragged for being obnoxious and rude, when he does simply answer without going into detail, he gets crapped on for answering.
Just fuck the Bill Carollo with a broom stick. He's been in charge of B1G officiating since well before 2016 - he's the one that assigned the OSU asshat crew to the Game in 2016. He's been needing replacement for years now...
November 9th, 2021 at 11:55 AM ^
I remember when MLB umpires didn't allow the ball parks to replay mistakes until they added replay. Now, it's no big deal.
I don't understand why the confidential nature. As we all sat and watched the painfully slow game last weekend, the officials have as much time as they need to make the best call within the confines of the rules. So, simply get the call right. Overturning a call like this is egregious. The officials should be professional and own it.
November 9th, 2021 at 2:15 PM ^
Next time Harbaugh should bring pictures.
November 9th, 2021 at 4:52 PM ^
Rainer Sabin is a tool!!
November 9th, 2021 at 8:55 AM ^
He fumbled, we know it, and it's over. Sucks but not much you can do.
November 9th, 2021 at 9:38 AM ^
Hutch - We are very lucky to have such a fine player, Leader and young man playing for Michigan. My only wish is that we could keep him longer.
November 9th, 2021 at 9:48 AM ^
Well it was a fumble for sure but off course there’s nothing nobody can do.
Hopefully the playoff committee takes this into consideration.
November 9th, 2021 at 11:59 AM ^
We need to take care of business this weekend or else the committee won't have anything to take it into consideration.
November 9th, 2021 at 10:03 AM ^
I was always comparing him to the Bosas but now I definitely think the Watts are the better comparison.
November 9th, 2021 at 10:13 AM ^
Please let us keep Ojabo for one more year.
November 9th, 2021 at 11:59 AM ^
Repeat after me
"He's too short and slow for the NFL..."
November 9th, 2021 at 11:39 AM ^
As great as he is, as a captain, for the life of me, I don't know why he didn't call out to MacDonald the substitution issue A MONTH AGO, and that our opponents especially MSU will exploit it... only after we lose because of it he says something.
November 9th, 2021 at 2:45 PM ^
His FB smarts are another blessing - covering the IU QB on the trick play was brilliant - no one is assigned to the QB and Aidan saw the play and immediately went to help.
Someday a team award at the banquet will be named after him
November 9th, 2021 at 4:25 PM ^
in this day and age of high def camera's how is it that in so many games they don't have a proper camera angle to make a call quickly and efficiently?
there should ALWAYS be a camera on each side of the field at EACH Goal line,
put them on a post near the stands up high enough to get a good shot of the goal line from each sideline. also a Pilon camera to get the lower angle. they don't move and are always on
camera from both end zones that are aimed down each sideline
there should be a camera going right down the Yard to make - put it on the Yard marker and have one on both sidelines (this would have solved "the spot" game in 16)
Multiple camera's on the corners of the stadium
the eye in the sky camera should be facing down at the goal line from above on goal line plays
put more cameras' and have them at the proper angles so we can get these replay's sorted out.
doing this plus the standard camera's that have been around awhile would solve a lot of these issues.
college football is making a LOT Of money for the networks, they can pony up some cameras to make the game better.
November 9th, 2021 at 4:41 PM ^
the B1G screwed up.
no question, ball was knocked loose and he never regained possession and we should have had a TD.
that was in the last few minutes of the FIRST HALF though, what explains all the other mistakes we made?
we STILL had a 16 point lead late in the 3rd and made SO many mistakes we ended up losing the game.
4th and one we jump and take a 5 yard penalty, the following punt on 4th and 6 he mishandles the snap and ends up trying to run for the first down and doesn't make it.
they take over in great field position
2 UNFORCED mistakes in a row that were killers.
The D then completely forgets how to play run D and fill their roles, Walkers last 2 scores he wasn't even touched. He DIDN'T make great plays he WASN'T EVEN TOUCHED by a defender.
we can blame the refs and call is a screw job...and IT WAS, BUT we still had 30+ minutes of football to show we were the better team and we couldn't do it.
We faded at crunch time.
on their game winning drive we had them in a 3rd and 8 situation, we jump offsides making it 3rd & 3 they get a first down running the ball and go on and win the game.
REALLY hoping this team has learned a lot from that painful lesson and don't allow it to happen again.
not sure many will be able to live if we have a 30-14 lead over osu and lose it on similar unforced errors.
November 9th, 2021 at 4:57 PM ^
JUST WIN OUT AND IT WON'T MATTER!
Probably.