OT/PSA: NHL Playoffs/Connor McDavid Show
I don’t know how many hockey fans are on here, but I feel I owe every sports fan in general a heads up: watch Connor McDavid right now in the NHL playoffs. He’s playing the best hockey I’ve ever seen in my life and frankly it’s not even close. And it’s an extremely entertaining style of hockey he plays so most fans should be able to marvel at it.
Full disclosure, I was too young to see Gretzky and Lemieux at their best.
Gretzky and Lemieux were so good, Yzerman had 155 points (65 goals, 90 assists) in the 1988 season…and finished 3rd in scoring.
It’s forgotten how great Lemieux was. If not for missing time due to cancer he would have been up there with Gretzky (never approaching the heights but at least within sight).
Lemieux’s career PPG was 1.89 and Gretzky’s was 1.92.
That Yzerman season was the highest scoring season ever by a player not named Gretzky or Lemieux. And the funny this is that he still wasn’t close to them that year. They finished with 199 and 168 pts.
Statistically, those two were from another planet. I wish I could’ve seen them in their primes.
You say that "he still wasn't close to them," but he was closer to Gretzky in points than Gretzky was to Lemieux.
If Gretzky never scored a single goal in his career…he would still be the all time leader in points by 42 over Jagr
Yeah, that was the beginning of Mario’s peak whereas Gretzky was coming down from his. But the point being that as amazing statistically as Yzerman’s 155 pt season was, it wasn’t close to their level. In the previous 7 seasons Gretzky had 4 200 pt seasons, another near 200 pt season, and two where he paced at at least 180 pts. It feels silly just typing those numbers out. Wow.
I watched the Gretzky-led Oilers wail on my Sabres a few times when I was a kid. That team was absolutely loaded.
I also got to see Lemieux a couple of times. He was so fun to watch. Who knows what he could have accomplished if he hadn't lost so much time to injuries and health issues.
Full disclosure:
I watched Gordie Howe and Wayne Gretzky. You’re wrong.
He said in "his life" not all-time. Kid's fine.
For me it's Lemieux at the peak of his powers.
Gretzky: +520 in 1487 career games
Lemieux +114 in 915 career games
Yes, I understand the limitations of +/-. And yet this stat is actually quite representative in my mind, having watched them both closely over the course of their respective careers.
Also: Gretz dominated Lemieux when they played head to head.
Not to pour gas on your admittedly "limited" stat argument here, but there's no way you can look at Gretz's +/- and not (at least) partially attribute it to those skating all-star teams in Edmonton. You've got like five of the Top 50 players of all time on the same team and a bunch of perennial all-stars including THREE all-star goalies on the same roster at one point. And while Mario had Jagr and some other very good talent, they won back to back cups of course. I'm not sure anyone is putting any of Mario's teams on greatest of all time team lists. Gretz basically played a decade on one.
Not only that, there were no limitations to passing over the centerline and there was no such thing as a 'nuetral-zone' trap, or any other such defense. The rules were literally changed to stop Gretzky from cherry picking most of the game. He would hang out really high in the D zone waiting for his teammates to slop one out. That left him with wide open chances more often than not because he release whenever it looked like his guy was getting to the puck first. For being the best purely offensive player I've ever seen (didn't get Gordie in his prime), the guy didn't play a lick of defense. Not a sniff...
For that reason, I'll put Howe, Lemiuex, Stevie Y, and probably a couple others if I think about it, as better overall players. Offensively? There is no question that Gretzky is the top. Overall? He's top 5, but not top 2...
This is my opinion, which is better than yours because it's mine.
Stevie and Mario, didn't play much D back in the 80's and 90's either. did they play more D than Wayne? yes... Stevie didn't really start playing at both ends of the ice until Scotty showed up and made the entire team play at both ends hence why they were finally able to start winning cups...
as its already been said that you can't really compare players from different era's for any sport, and hockey is even harder to do so... 80's and 90's hockey 3/4's of the teams had at least 5 guys that didn't even know that there was a puck on the ice and they were only out there for 1 or 2 reasons... Wayne, Stevie, and Mario had their protectors out on the ice to make sure that they didn't get killed out there, but they still took their fair share of punishment on the ice and it caught up with them towards the end of their careers, Mario had injury problems before he was diagnosed with cancer...
since the rules changes went into effect back in the early 2000's there is no room for the "goons" to be on teams anymore so they game a lot more wide open allowing the players like Conner and others to do what they do...
You're critiquing an offensive player for not being enough of a two-way player? Yzerman was one of the great two-way players of his time and frankly it's one of the main reasons I respect him so much. Players like Yzerman or Franzen are so gritty you can't help but like them.
However I don't think it's fair to knock Wayne down an all time list because he was too offensively minded. It's not like teams couldn't adjust to Wayne's tactics. As much as I love Yzerman and players like him, I still think Gretzky is the greatest of all time.
It's not like the Oilers roster was intentionally created knowing those players were top 50 all time. It just happened that Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Coffey and Fuhr would become all time greats.
There was a way to say this without being a twat, FYI.
username checks out. I've not seen Gordie, but i've seen gretzky and lemieux, and all i'll say is they were both amazing, and so is McDavid.
gordie was the best in many ways, not a knock on gretzky or the other two. even gretzky said, 'gordie was the best'. toughest, strongest, best-scorer in an era with far fewer goals, and famous for the 'gordie howe hat trick' a goal, an assist, and a fight. he would translate to this era and be a force to reckon with in his prime.
Gordie Howe was and still is the GOAT. There’s a reason he is called Mr. Hockey. Dude had a flat stick and could shoot/score with both left and right handed. Of course I’m biased because I’m a die hard Red Wing fan.
Connor McDavid is 100% the best player on the planet, right now and in my mind, the best since Gretzky. He's playing a full 200 foot game without sacrificing any offense. He's one of the few players in the game that you rise to your feet when he gets the puck. It's incredible what he's able to do with the puck but even more so at the speed in which he does it. The more eyes that watch him play the game, the more the sport will continue to grow.
I would love to see the season end with McDavid lifting the Cup above his head, outside of the Rangers of course.
He doesn't have enough help. If they manage to get through this series, I think he will be made to realize pretty quick how much of a juggernaut Colorado is. They are playing a pretty solid brand of hockey right now and are just as offensively potent as the Oilers if not more.
It's looking like a Colorado - TB matchup in the Finals to me.
I agree that he doesn't have enough help, at all. I'm not sold on Mike Smith and the Duncan Keith deal was a bad one, the guy just can't play anymore. Zach Hyman has been a huge addition to this line-up though but with Draisaitl laboring, it's going to be tough.
I agree with you with the Colorado - TB Cup Final matchup though. The Avs look ready to take that step after several disappointing post-seasons and what Tampa is doing in the Florida series is nothing short of impressive. They know what it takes to win a Cup and each and every one of them, including Stamkos, is doing it every game. Selling out on shot blocks, finishing checks, etc etc etc.
TB is playing their best hockey at the right time. FLA won the (cursed) President's Trophy and might be swept out in the second round.
Someone pointed out the Crosby won the Conn Smythe in 2016 with 6 goals and 19 points in 24 games. McDavid has 6 goals and 20 points in 9 games (correction: now 23 in 10) so far.
Also agreed that Mike Smith might be too erratic to be carry his team when they need him.
He definitely carves through defenses in a way with sheer speed and puck handling that is pretty special and definitely generational.
Better than Gretzky though? I'll pump the brakes on that comparison other than he may end up leaving the Oilers just like The Great One.
In fact... I think he'd be welcome in Hockeytown.
Yeah he is pretty, pretty good. Hard to compare to guys who played in the 80's & early 90's as it was a vastly different game.
Watch some games from that era. It is... not the same. Players now are just on a different level athletically and, in many ways, skillwise as well.
There's some truth to that in all sports, of course. It's rare that a guy's film holds up in a way that crosses eras. Barry Sanders and Diego Maradona are two specifically that absolutely do.
I confess I haven't watched the NHL as intently recently, just don't have the bandwidth. But in the relatively narrow margin I've watched... McDavid does stuff nobody else has ever done. With startling regularity.
"Watch some games from that era. It is... not the same. Players now are just on a different level athletically and, in many ways, skill wise as well."
Which is... exactly what I said?
Read who is replying to you.
I thought you made a good point and was agreeing with you?
I suppose you have a funny way of agreeing with someone then. Typically telling someone to go watch some film doesnt coincide with agreement lol
I will certainly cop to what politicians call “inartful wording,” and I can see why you’d raise an eyebrow at it. In my defense I was considering the larger discussion and others reading as much as whether you’ve “seen the film.”
Looks like you hit a nerv.
I think it is better to compare players against those they played against, not all-time.
Alexander Ovechkin would like a word.
Ovechkin can put the puck in the net, perhaps, better than anyone else ever has but he's mainly only looking to score, topping out at 59 assists in one season. The only season in which McDavid has has less than 59 was his rookie season where he had 32 in an injury shortened 45 game season. He had 65 in the Covid shortened season and 72 last season when they only played 56.
In their career's, Ovechkin has 172 more assists in 787 more games.
Touche!!!
He is unbelievable. As is this series. I hope it never ends. Screw the Maple Leafs. This is real Canadian hockey.
lol> edm brought in Holland to make sure Mcdavid never leaves. I think like gretz, Mcdavid is just better for the game in the USA. Its where the money is and if he stays in edm, not many here with money care.
I will never understand Edm bringing in Holland the moment he left the Red Wings in disgrace. Our entire fanbase collectively celebrated when Holland and his god awful scouting/drafting/contract giving finally left town. The Wings are just now finally getting out from under the salary cap hell Holland got us into. The Oilers & McDavid arent getting any further than this with Holland making roster decisions.
Holland was great before the salary cap era while carrying a blank checkbook courtesy of Papa Illitch. Pretty easy to succeed with those variables on your side. I was among those who celebrates Holland moving on. Akin to the BoSox hiring Dombrowski after he was canned in Detroit.
There’s a clear Top 4 in hockey history (although many will argue the order): Gretzky, Orr, Howe, and Lemieux. Statistically, they were on a different level in terms of domination and Howe’s longevity at an elite level is just wild. So don’t think I’m arguing that McDavid is on or will ever reach that level.
But he’s off to a historic start to his career and at this rate could very well find himself in that 5th spot when all is said and done.
7 years into his career so far, he’s accomplished:
Scoring Finishes: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2
Point/game Finishes: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 4
Since he’s joined the league, no player is close to his points/g in that time frame.
He already has more Art Ross trophies than Crosby and Ovechkin combined and there’s no reason to think he’s going to lose many scoring titles in the near future if he stays relatively healthy.
And now this postseason. Only Gretzky and Lemieux have ever had more points than his 23 thru 10 games in history.
And it’s not like he’s just collecting points in a right place, right time type of way. He’s the driving force behind the vast majority of them and often in highlight reel fashion.
The speed at which he plays the game is like nothing I’ve ever seen. There are and have been guys who can skate as fast as him - albeit not many - but his ability to process the game and have total control the puck at that speed is what separates him. It’s like if you were able to magically put the offensive games of Datsyuk and Bure together.
Like I said to start, I unfortunately didn't get to see Gretzky or Lemieux at their best (which obviously means I also didn’t get to see Howe or Orr either,) so this is the best hockey I’ve ever personally seen played. And man am I ever glad because it’s beyond special.
For the record, I don’t expect them to win a Cup this year or even reach the Finals. I for one and shocked they’re even up in this series. Draisaitl isn’t 100%, although he’s starting to look healthier again, their defense is not very good, and 40 yr old goaltending is always a question mark. They’ve barely scored a goal when McDavid isn’t on the ice the postseason. But I’m certainly hoping he’s able to carry them another round or two so we can continue watching the show.
He did the same thing at erie in the OHL. I saw gretz and lemieux.... and conner is faster. I can't say he is better as I view g & l as the best ever. Conner sees and plays the game at a different level. But in todays game, there is almost no chance he reaches any of the records that some before did.
Mcdavid makes nhl players look like they are standing still.
The Oilers do make me conflicted. I want to root for McDavid and see a Canadian team finally break the 30 year Cup drought.
Conversely they also employ Evander Kane. Who amazingly has more playoff goals than McDavid after tonight’s hat trick.
The hattrick was funny because it was like 90% McDavid on all of those goals.
Counter-Point: The Flames employ Milan Lucic and Matthew Tkachuk. I'd personally like to see Tampa three-peat, but I wouldn't be upset if Edmonton won. Anyone but the Avs or Flames.
That's a fair counter-point as regards Tkachuk being a Calgary Flame! Maybe he and Kane get tangled up and there's so much "dumb-ass-ness" in one location the universe spontaneously creates a black hole and they disappear forever.
I like Tampa, but then again they are now employing Corey Perry!
This is the most I've ever really watched McDavid. I'd heard he was great but wow I had no clue how good he was. What an incredible talent. He skates through NHL defenders like Luke Hughes skates through lower D1 talent. Just a different talent level
Connor and I share a birthday-wohoo! I love watching hockey-am fascinated by the great skating skill of these high level players...Connor is certainly elite.
I recently saw a terrific piece with Connor and Gretzky. Included in their discussion was talk about the great players of this game and the reality that there will be a "next one". For those of you with more hockey knowledge and perspective, Michigan has a wonderfully skilled young player returning this year, is Luke Hughes in the conversation as becoming this level of a player?
LOL!!! Hughes, as good as he is, is still, essentially, in the minor leagues. There is no way you can project him - or anyone else in the minors today - as a talent similar to Gretzky or McDavid. Do some have the tools? Sure. But they need to prove it against NHL elites, not some guy playing D for SW Indiana St U that will be in a beer league next year.
Having the tools and being able to put it together to use them to full effect against the best players in the world (literally, in the NHL's case) are two very different things...
Luke Hughes is not even close, and that's no knock on him. The next projected generational talents are Connor Beard and Matvei Michkov. While both are supremely talented, neither has McDavid's other-worldly skating (nobody does).