OT: Career and major advice for working class kid headed to UM (possibly Ross)?

I don't recommend tech to anyone who isn't passionate about it.  I don't believe for one second all the hype about AI making it "go away" but at the same time, the people who are generally successful in tech have been doing this stuff since they were kids just because they wanted to.  I'm not saying it can't be done, but going into it just for the $$$ is a good way to end up dissatisfied with your career.

I don't have a lot of great advice for him, other than to cast a wide net and try to find something that speaks to him.  He'll most likely do better in a career in something he either enjoys or is good at then trying to pick something strictly for the $$$.

if he has no passions id suggest trying to sample a variety of potential fields via class, career fest, internship or just shadowing someone for a few days here or there.  plenty of people willing to mentor hard workers, just need patience and willingness to ask (and follow up).

also would suggest personality testing.  be honest, try to gain a solid assessment.  theyre by no means foolproof but can help younger people better understand their skillset, disposition, etc.  ie, some require external motivation while others are overflowing with internal drive & discipline.  introvert vs extrovert.  if forced to choose, more sales or data inclined.  building models or relationships.  these insights may help narrow his focus

Congratulations to your nephew, OP, and good luck to him as he navigates UM.

Some off-the-cuff thoughts:

• If he's poor, I'll bet he'd prefer not to go backward in that area. This will sound harsh, but ROI here will be more important than it would be for someone from a comfortable background with connections. No easy task, but I'd suggest he choose something that won't result in the barista post-graduate plan. (This does actually happen sometimes.) Ross seems like a good start.
• Another difficult task: Assess the fit (with Ross) ASAP and redirect if necessary. No point in hating something, struggling to keep up, or both.
• Focus on school and getting to know his classmates. Hopefully he'll click with a few of them. If all goes well, they'll be the beginning of a social and professional network.
• Everything else is gravy. It's been many years since I was a student and I've never once (with apologies to NeverPunt) regretted avoiding the dance marathon. If there's time for that stuff, great. If not, I wouldn't worry too much.

Maybe stop mentoring him like college is a capitalistic transaction and advise him to explore his option by taking Gen Ed’s that meet any degree. There’s a reason degrees are half Gen Eds and then major classes make up 1/3 to 1/2. It’s so young minds can actually explore many avenues rather than have mentors who treat them like a “percentile” in their class. Yes, your description of your nephew is pretty elitist and bothersome to those “poor kids” who go to great universities. I know first hand—you may not intend to sound like one, but your descriptions of him and of the different fields of study can come off as reductive snobbery to poor kids, having been one. And you instill that mindset into him if you talk to him the same way you laid it out here. And he may resent that or believe it, but he shouldn’t believe it.

There isn’t a magical path, a magical degree, and if he wants to make money “fast” he should learn to do the best he can in all his classes to open up doors that nepo babies already have opened for them.

But no student should ever be pushed into a field they have no interest in enough to help drive them to learn to do well in that field. Or, unless they have a preternatural gift they just discovered when finally pursuing courses in that field. Money comes with success. Success comes with working towards learning things. Learning requires not being reductive of any possible major because it’s trendy to be STEM or Finance major. 
 

Throw your support into him finding himself at Michigan, and tell him to explore his options in his first years.

I would not encourage anyone with a soul or morals to pursue finance.

I know a few pharmacy majors from my time at Michigan. They’re financially well off and enjoy the work.

I’m went thru the engineering school and can tell you that, while I love the design field and make decent money, not everyone with aptitude does well as an engineer. Many end up moving toward the business side and go back for an MBA.

Those on this board that advise he take some core classes and regularly assess his expectations seem wise, to me.

Congrats to your nephew.

Fwiw here are a couple of thoughts based on my somewhat limited experience (never did finance/I-banking/whatever but did a PhD at Wharton and know a lot of people in the field, also advice a bunch of Ivy students on career stuff that includes options in finance.)

1) UM is what I call a if you kick ***, you're an Ivy school (public Ivies and some places like Emory and CMU fit in that grouping for me). What that means is for the brass ringfi rms like Goldman (Sachs),  students who spike at UM are considered with the usual suspects from Harvard, Stanford, etc. There is less room for error for UM students than those other schools in terms of grades, etc.

2) Now there are LOTS of ways to maximize income out of college, but purely focusing on starting salary (or only certain firms/locations) is a mistake imo. For example, focusing only on NYC can in some cases close him off to opportunities in DTW, Chicago, and other places where there is more room for advancement and you have some home field advantage because of extensive UM ties. Also, depending on his level of comfort with risk there are some real tradeoffs between base salary and upside 

3) In any case, I would be laser focused on internships and work with professors who dip their toes in real world work (finance, etc). If your nephew is really hungry he will be able to start building up experience from day 1 which puts him at a comparative advantage. 

4) While it will be impt to be highly focused if his sole goal is to get to a comfortable financial position ASAP, I would encourage him to, for his electives, choose among courses that are the most highly rated ones in terms of professors. I was fortunate to take a couple of courses with Ralph Willams (literature) and Sidney Fine (history) that affected me much more than any of my cores in what was otherwise a science/math heavy course load. 

Finally, I try and strike a balance between recognizing the disparity between what will be his experience and that of many of his classmates who have been much luckier in terms of the resource environments they were born into and making that the sole determinant of who he chooses to hang out with. If he keeps an open mind, he will be able to meet great people who happen to come from wealthy environments as well as avoid those who didn't but are nevertheless not great hangs/a*****s. 

Good luck to him!

Assuming there is no fit with programming, IT, or any form of engineering, my suggestion would be accounting.  Not too hard.  Lots of jobs, which exist everywhere in the nation.

As for Wall Street, I interviewed with some places (Goldman Sachs, D. E. Shaw, for being a quant back in the early 1990's) and have pals who are investment bankers, but I didn't end up working on Wall Street.  So, my view isn't the most experienced or recent, but my opinion based on the above is:  Wall Street selects for people with high energy and high ambition, who are happy to work intensely for very long hours all the time, can work under a lot of pressure, and generally are very smart or have a high level of persuasion skill or are high achievers.

Lots of good advice. Part of this depends on exactly what he considers good money. One area to consider that brings good, but not incredible money would be aiming towards hospital / healthcare administration. He'll need to go to grad school for an MHSA but a solid econ or other LSA degree with some experience working at a hospital (should be pretty easy to get low paid work at Michigan Medicine) could be a good path to consider if that strikes his interest.

My advice is get advice from someone no more than ten years older than the kid, preferably five.

The lessons I learned apply to a bygone era so fuck if I know how to advance a career in this decade. I work a dead-end job.

I feel like I make excellent money teaching and I absolutely love my job. Michigan is also a state that probably has the best ratio of teacher pay vs. cost of living. 

Becoming wealthy from scratch will most likely take a lifetime, or at least the first 20 years of a career.  So you have to suggest that he get into something that he can be and stay passionate about.  His goal should be something related to generating rich grandkids.  

He should design his life such that he builds financial ownership of valuable things, whether it's stocks, land, a piece of the company he works for, his own startup, etc.  All that will come by proving to the world that he is good at something and also passionate enough about it to stay with it.

Poor kid here. UM BS Chemical engineering. MBA. Currently CIO.I wanted to make money as quickly as possible too.

I’d suggest he finds something that he’s good at, and to grind hard enough to show that’s he’s good at learning, achieving goals, and working with people. Go to job fairs and tell his story. Interview and tell his story. He will find an audience.

And reassess frequently. First year at Michigan doesn’t have to define years 2-4. First job doesn’t define a career. Things can change and careers are winding. Just stay focused, add value, and have a (flexible) plan  

Good luck to him! I hope he tells a beautiful story in 30 years. 

(edit) I suppose I should comment on the money making aspect- yes, the degree should be in a field whose first job has a good salary. Business, IT are both strong options. Don’t get a degree that requires grad school right away before you’re making money.

I work in finance (FP&A), and have seen lots of non-business/non-quant degrees jn the field. Internships are super important,  and if he can get into a rotational/development program post graduation, that will set him up for success. Remember, $150k/year is quite successful, not many make $1.5m/year. Adjust expectations accordingly.

Ross is a great place to explore those interests with classes tailored to Wall Street and finance. If Ross fails, major in economics or learn accounting and apply to Wall Street firms and other big companies who do on campus recruiting. Wall Street is a brutal grind (I worked for a Wall Street law firm for several years and have a bit of a window). Money does not go far in New York. If it were me a finance or fiscal role at a corporation seems like an route with more options. He can always get an MBA, focus on finance, and leverage that corporate experience down the road. Either way, hard work overcomes a lot in classes. Top grades in math/econ/stats classes go to those who do the work (get old exams, go to every class, do all the homework, treat it like a job). 

Similar background, and arrived with an intention to do business (marketing). 

Make sure they get it in their head that they have to develop! Tell em to network like hell (with students AND faculty/staff) and just try a bunch of different things while in school. Pick up odd jobs that involves stuff that kinda sorta interests them, and get a hands-on feel for the kind of work you do and do not like. Take classes that sound like memorable experiences, alongside the required classes for the anticipated major. And for goodness sake, don’t feel compelled to double/triple major (bc seriously, no hiring manager actually cares when you’re lacking in the soft skills department). 

TLDR: Seriously - throw crap at the wall (outside of academic coursework) and see what sticks. 

If he goes to Ross and doesn't want to compete for IBanker jobs, he could focus on marketing, corporate finance, or operations management. Honestly he'll have tons of opportunities coming out of Ross but those areas are perhaps less competitive and aggressive.

If he likes the practical business of real physical goods, the operations management and supply chain programs at Ross are second to none and might appeal to a more working class kid. He can learn to run factories or huge corporate projects or manage getting stuff made and shipped across the world. 

But marketing and corporate finance are also great.

A couple modest points, from someone who's happy he's a lawyer (and FWIW I'm not a finance person but they're my bread-and-butter client base) but probably would have been something else if he had meaningful professional options at graduation:

• He should do his damndest to find 1-3 mentors who are juniors, reasonably promptly.  Maybe this is greek life, the dorm, a first generation students group, whatever.  They should be doing the things he wants to do, so he can have the inside scoop.  I cannot emphasize enough how important this is - he needs someone who will tell him what to do and when.  I get the sense freshman summer internships are more and more possible.
• What does "make a lot of money" mean?  Beaucoup, beaucoup bucks (call it $600k annual comp) by 30 are probably in quantitative trading (math/cs majors, the entry level salary at e.g. Jane Street can be pretty offensive) or a hedge fund (take an analyst job for two years at an investment bank).  Very good money but not as offensively rich (call it $600k net worth by 30 if you're investing a respectable portion of your take-home every year) would include, among others, private equity or FAANG-ish software engineering.  But those are all extraordinarily demanding fields with very high competition every step of the way.  "In the top 10% of America for the rest of my life" could come from CS / EE / SWE, IOE, statistics, or many of the things at Ross.
• Minor in something writing-forward where the correct answer is ambiguous (read: a humanity).  You would be shocked at the number of people who can't write (which is still a skill that matters), analyze complex situations, or effectively persuade.  To stand out past the junior level, judgment is the secret sauce - and if you can't think critically outside a narrow framework with certain correct answers or persuade people that your conclusions are right, good luck and god bless. 
• Take classes with professors who invest in the students.  Two of my professors (in fields totally unrelated to what I work in) are invaluable friends and life mentors.  Having someone with a totally different approach and a lot more life experience in my corner was personally delightful and resulted in a lot of excellent, thoughtful advice.
• Try a bunch of stuff and follow what sticks.  I think many people in successful careers will say that they thought they were going to do X, but were exposed to Y and really loved it.  Being dead-set on anything from day 1 can be rough if you really hate it, but the odds are good there's something you like in the pool if you look around.

Ross grad here.  A few career choices -  consulting, investment banking (wall st), corporate finance, marketing, operations etc.  All need a strong drive to compete, strong academic performance, and passion for a field.  He will need to decide which way he wants to go to pick the right electives and internships.  Decisions will come back to back.  He will make good money either way.  What’s most important is to figure out what type of work he enjoys and where would he  enjoy competing the most.  Investment banking is one where he will have to commit up front.  Even before he joins.  He can also pick general management and would have several choices in corporate settings - strategy, bus development, mfg, sales etc.  

I got part way through the comments, but I did not read them all. 

Business is good because it is a path to consulting. But the consulting firms demand both good grades and hyper-intelligence (which they assess through their interviews). So just getting good grades isn’t enough. If you can make it, it is probably the path to the most money the soonest.

Have him watch Pursuit of Happyness. You can make a crap ton of money in finance, but there are so many incredibly smart people working in that industry. And many of them have drive and motivation you might not appreciate. 

Have him read “How to Fail at Almost Everything and Still Win Big: Kind of the Story of My Life” by Scott Adams. Main point: don’t try to be the Michael Jordan of one thing because that’s too hard; try to be top 10% of each element of a unique combination of skills which is easier to do, but hard to replicate for others. He calls it building a “skill stack.”

Much of what you wrote about his history resonates - I hate being poor, raised by single mom.  It took me a long time to realize that having wealth didn't solve the real source of my dissatisfaction that I had blamed on the lack of money.  That said, no one could have talked me out of it, and I had to figure it out for myself.  My recommendation would be for him to major in anything that he finds interesting, get a degree in no more than 4 years, and get out into the world.  The diploma opens doors, but it isn't a ticket to being "not poor."  Depending on his drive, he may be suited to starting a business.  Perhaps a professional degree if he can tolerate that much school.  law, medicine, accountant, anything where you hang out your own shingle.    

As blunt as it may sound, he’d like to make a lot of money as soon as possible. 

That was me.  And 30 years later I am still trying to make that happen.

In all seriousness, I push every young person I know to engineering.  But engineering is not a get rich quick discipline unless you are a savvy entrepreneur who doesn't mind sacrificing their life for a handful of years to build a business based on some tech novelty.

I was the first in my family to go to college and I had a similar mindset: go do something to make money. I was a nuclear engineer and it has not disappointed me. I’m not rich or anything, but I make more than I could have reasonably expected when I was 17. I finished pretty much at the bottom of my class and I struggled mightily. I didn’t know what the hell I was in for when I went from a rural high school to an elite university. My opinion is that there are pretty much two tracks if you don’t want to try grad school (which wasn’t an option for me with my academic record): business and engineering. Obviously there will be exceptions, but either of those is a good start. Good luck to the young man. May he struggle less than I did. 

I realize that the is more than a slightly off topic response to this post, but I'm gonna do it anyway.

I was placed at East Quad my freshman year despite not being in the RC ... yet. There were maybe 50 non RC kids placed in the basement of Hayden and Cooley halls. I think in part because we were not RC and as such we missed out on some if not all of the RC events designed to get a kid involved in the place. There was, to my way of thinking, a lot of attrition within that group. Maybe close to 50%, a third for sure after year 1.

The most notable instance was a kid in the room next door. He went to one week of class and then barely came out of the room again until his parents came and got him at Thanksgiving. His roommate brought him a tray or two of that fine swill offered up by the East Quad's kitchen staff. He would come out for the occasional shower when his roommate mentioned the need.

Nobody missed that kid.

I always end this story by saying that it's like the old Cosby joke about his dad telling him, "I brought you into this world, I'll take you out. Doesn't matter to me, I'll make another one that looks just like you.

While I don't think it's fair to say that the university doesn't care about the kids, I do think that at The University of Michigan, and all big time institutions, for that matter, it's real damn easy for a kid to fall between the cracks, particularly here with a state of Michigan kid that's paying that low, low discounted tuition the administration likes to promote to Michigan families as in, "Look at how little you are paying for a world class education when the foreign and outstate kids are paying so much more to attend here."

Look into the expansion of administration over, pick your term of years, it's impressive. There are a whole lot of mouths to feed around here now days. And they are getting paid pretty well, regardless of position, unless maybe you're a TA or whatever they call that position now. Internally, it's about the bucks. Maybe it always was.

And yes, I had people that allowed me to latch onto them and were powerful help in getting me through. Aurthur Southwick showed up in a huge way for me when I was struggling, Jane Heirich at the RC was wonderfully helpful despite the fact that I was a very odd duckling in her circle to be sure. But, the university is a huge and crowded place, and overall a kid that's inclined to disappear is unlikely to ever be missed.

I love The University of Michigan, but I directed my oldest and youngest to Calvin partly because they were D3 quality athletes and wanted play at the college level. I pushed my middle kid at Hope because he has enormous cajones and wanted to write comedy and do standup for a living. Their theater program was conducive to that particular adventure.

I was as street a kid as a middle class white boy could be when I showed up in Ann Arbor, with the natural arrogance that does help in fitting in around here, and as such didn't have a problem walking into somebody's office and asking questions. That was my salvation here.

I caution everybody that wants to talk about the university in terms of sending a kid, if your kid wants to be in charge of something, even if it's the party, it's probably worth giving it a shot. But if there are any tendencies toward the wallflower thing, think long and hard and then monitor at a high and consistent level if the decision is yes.

And with regards to the real topic at hand, I came here because I wanted the money. I studied accounting because I wanted to be able to efficiently count my money. Then I went into the real estate brokerage business, a trade where you only had to pass a simple test to get in.

Getting the money, in my experience is mostly about wanting to get the money. I got over loving my job pretty quick. I am really good at having fun which was my salvation while pushing for the wealth that I was able to obtain. In reflection, the one thing I got right was quitting the second instant that I was able. I didn't see the first instant go by until it was too late to catch it. 

One my friends at Ross undergrad had decent grades, plenty of Bs on his transcript, but always had a sick high paying summer job and then had his pick of several offers after graduation.

Which is to say don't be intimidated by the grades, you def don't want to fail anything but just do your homework and go to class and you will be handsomely rewarded.  A few Bs or even Cs in very difficult courses won't scare away recruiters who see you have the drive to succeed.

Also, he needs emotional/psychological support.  The biggest challenge for poor kids at a school like that is just the sheer enormity of the change, going for wondering how they'll eat any given day to complete access to the best technology, professors and parties in the world.  Looking back i didn't even realize what was going on in my head but that was a huge problem for me and I never was able to talk about it to family or anyone else because i didnt even realize how it was affecting me subconsciously.

Kid should be fine in the long run with his intelligence and work ethic even if he messes up at school. Just a matter of if he can avoid any missteps and have his life set by 25 instead of wasting a decade like me and not having his shit together until 35 lol.

My only real advice is: Don't go to law school if you don't know what you want to do. I'm not an attorney but some excellent (powerful even) ones I know say to not go unless you really want to do it. It's also generally just not a great experience. 

Does UM offer kids full tuition if their family's/parent's net worth is under $X amount? And does your nephew qualify for that?  If so, that offers him a lot of flexibility. 

I didn't come from that kind of background so I can't speak to the kid's experience or desires for the future. I grew up in a well-to-do town but my family wasn't particularly wealthy and there were a lot of much richer kids at UofM. I was never very motivated by money (though I was always broke in those days) and all my college friends have made a lot more $ than me since graduating, so I'm not exactly the right person to offer advice here hah. 

But I would advise him not to fall into the trap of chasing big money as soon as possible. One of my friends was a B-school kid and got what is basically the highest paying job you can get out of college. And...he kind of went nuts. Those types of jobs (Big Law, too) might pay handsomely, but they also take a lot from you. 

That's why I say to tread carefully and be patient, especially if he doesn't have loans. Without a massive debt load hanging over his head, he can do a lot of different things, even nonprofit work. And he'll be somewhat comfortable. It's important to remember that "not being poor anymore" does not necessarily equal "making as much money as soon as possible."

If you start investing immediately, it almost doesn't matter your profession. Your occupation pays the bills but assets create and sustain wealth. You must outpace inflation and the only assets doing that are the magnificent 7 tech stocks and digital assets such as Bitcoin and Solana. Start a Coinbase account and do at least $5/day on auto invest. Trust me it works. This is transformational tech that is only beginning to go mainstream with Wall Street ETF.

3 Rules

Be early

Be consistent

Be patient

Recommend he spend time checking out the numerous student groups and projects and see what areas pique his interest.  Even engineering projects like Solar Car will have a business/marketing aspect to them (or they did when I was there).

If there's no interest in CS or engineering, what about nursing?  Still high demand AFAIK and pay will be good. (in b4 male nurse comments).

I agree with most people on here and I'll just add this. I live on a street where everyone is modestly wealthy/successful.  Houses range from $2-$4M.  I don't think anyone is super wealthy, but everyone is definitely comfortable.  Here is a list of careers from my street ("/" indicates careers of both spouses): Doctor (surgeon), Doctor (Emergency)/Doctor (Peds), Private Pilot, Pilot / Sales at a startup tech company, Pharmaceutical Sales, Owns Oil Company, Owns Defense consulting company, owns generator company / IT Manager, owns a car wash, owns Amazon shipping company, owns a roofing company, CFO, CIO / Consultant, Tech Sales, Retired after selling commercial property, retired after selling their farm, retired after selling land near a ski resort. 

Very few of these careers were planned based on a degree selected at 18 years old.  To be wealthy, you need to work hard, take risks, invest your money, be self-employed and luck helps.  

This isn't for everyone, but have him head over to the ROTC offices in the Chem Building if he's interested. I came out of UM with less debt than I should have because of it, and a job as an Air Force officer. Got a monthly stipend, and a sense of discipline early on in college. Not to mention a great support network and natural friend group of college students and cadre who are a great resource for anybody.

After 6 years in the Air Force I found a host of opportunities for former officers and joined the corporate world at 30. Again, I did the Air Force because I wanted to serve my country - there is a mindset needed to go this route. It's not for everyone. And I left the Air Force jaded. But I am so thankful I did it for a hundred reasons independent of why I did it, and I think a lot of my peers could have benefited from service (if it had been right for them).

I could go on about this one for a long time, but my simple answer would be - 

Don't just chase the money.  I understand that he wants to make a lot of money fast, but I would encourage him instead to pick a career path based more on something he loves.  Once you graduate college, my belief is your most precious commodity is time - and you want to spend that time doing something you love and surrounded by people that you respect and who care about you.  And, if you're willing to work you ass off, you can also do well financially in the long run.  It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Full disclosure - I graduated from Ross.  I also did the joint Industrial Engineering program (Tauber).  I saw a lot of classmates go into Finance and Investment Banking and I know many of them have done well.  However, I chose a different path focused on building things - products and technologies that are real - and I absolutely do not regret it as I realized early on that I would prefer to be someone who actually makes something instead of someone who makes money off the backs of people who make something.  I probably could have made more money going the pure Finance route (I had worked in that field prior to Ross), but I think I would have been miserable.