From a Long-Time (former) Harbaugh Supporter
TL;DR: I'm ready for Harbaugh and Don Brown to go. Gattis could succeed if Harbaugh would not interfere with his game plans and play calls.
I've been one of the fans that has given Harbaugh the benefit of the doubt the past 6 years, and I never wanted to see him be fired... until now.
This season is a dumpster fire for many reasons: Nico opting out. Ambry opting out (leaving us with no good corners). Injuries to our best remaining players: Mayfield, Hayes, Hutchinson, Paye injuries. First time, raw but talented, starter at QB (Milton). New and young offensive line. No defensive tackles. All of this is definitely making things look worse than they would otherwise be... BUT, we're still seeing the same old mistake-filled, undisciplined, bad play-call coaching that's been consistent since the Harbaugh regime began. The lack of recruiting quality players at needed positions is obviously a huge part of it too. But, I just scratch my head at some of the terrible coaching strategies/play calls that have been consistent with this regime:
- Game plans that don't make any sense
- Penalties
- Awful clock management
- Terrible play calls
Last night, there were a couple plays that really stood out as damning for this coaching regime: running it on 3rd and 8 when you're down by 21 points... and the 4th and goal play where we lined up in an obvious QB run, Wisc called a timeout and their defense then showed that they were stacking the box, and yet Michigan decided not to change the play call, and so Milton was predictably stuffed.
I'm also convinced that Harbaugh is interfering with what Gattis REALLY wants to do on offense. We've seen flashes of some great offensive game plans from Gattis (second half of last year, Minnesota this year), but it feels like the other times, Harbaugh is interfering and telling him to run up the middle, or do some other stupid play "Harbaugh-ball" call. I feel like, if Harbaugh really gave Gattis the keys to the offense, that it would succeed.
Meanwhile, on defense, the game has passed Don Brown by. Harbaugh should have been looking for a new DC after the end of last season. He can't seem to recruit fast corners or big, run stuffing defensive tackles either. And his play calls on defense are also infuriating... like when he did an all out blitz on 3rd down late in the 4th quarter against MSU, allowing them to do a simple screen pass for an easy TD that put the game away (if I recall correctly).
Harbaugh also seems to have a problem with getting his players pumped up, which probably helps explain some of the reason why we lose to our rivals.
Anyway, to sum up... I'm done defending Harbaugh. He needs to go. Don Brown too.
November 15th, 2020 at 8:58 AM ^
Maybe it's time to turn off new posts on the board since people seem to think their snowflakes are too important to go in the snowflake thread
November 15th, 2020 at 9:01 AM ^
Except the DMac story - that trumps all snowflakes.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:12 AM ^
I wouldn't call anything from Jermaine a 'snowflake' - the guy has consistently had good inside information.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:16 AM ^
Snowflake threads suck. Too big and unwieldy, making it impossible to find a specific post.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:21 AM ^
Then at the very least they need to pin that D Mac story post at the top above the snowflake threads.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:28 AM ^
It’s a shame that threads aren’t ordered by the latest posts. Shit post threads would fall off the board and the best, most active threads would stay at the top.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:34 AM ^
Amen...every single forum on planet earth bumps the recent posted threads to the top. That way popular threads stick around and crap ones die...fast.
It’s literally a 5 minute fix to one of the worst issues with the board.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:50 AM ^
I just watched the worst Michigan football game of my 50+ year fandom. Right now I couldn't give two shits about the order posts on the board. Or whether some jackass has to say his snowflake comments in a separate post.
What has to be fixed is the DAMN FOOTBALL TEAM.
That is all.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:59 AM ^
Amen. Nothing else needs to be said.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:02 AM ^
This board has been far more consistent than UM football the late 10 years so in some respects it’s more impactful if the board is fixed ?
November 15th, 2020 at 11:01 AM ^
Replace snowflake with this website and I agree. Ha
November 15th, 2020 at 10:39 AM ^
The problem brutus is every snowflake thread creator THINKS their hawt taekes are unique and different than all the rest, hence the need for a new post to express them. It doesnt matter if 500 other people have posted "fire Harbaugh" or "our coaching is terrible" they think their new and unique take on Harbaugh being fired or that our coaches suck is so terribly important and insightful it simply MUST have it's own thread for discussion.
The scary thing is it's only going to get worse as the season progresses. Whenever the program is struggling the board is absolutely filled with posters offering up their feelings as to what they think is going on and why.
And the DMac story is anything but a snowflake. That is actual insider news that should be sitting on the front page of this blog - not the sidebar.
November 15th, 2020 at 2:23 PM ^
Oh, goodie, the snowflake police. How about we create one big "Michigan snowflake" thread where we can post ALL things Michigan-related? That would show 'em! Heaven forbid we try to focus our attention to just one topic.
What a waste of time this site is after a game. Anything interesting is buried in one giant, sprawling snowflake thread cluttered with stupid and unrelated thoughts.
Neg away, but the whole concept of snowflake threads sucks. It has always sucked. It is the worst part of this site.
And now I'll go away and return sometime later this week when interesting things get posted again, in their own titled threads, and I can pick and choose what interests me.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:07 AM ^
Joe Milton is a JUNIOR. There is no such thing as a "raw" Junior. Dude has had multiple years to learn the position. I think you are confusing someone who just isn't a very good QB with the word "raw".
November 15th, 2020 at 9:18 AM ^
Milton looks exactly like he did in High school. All his issues are still the same. I remember people saying his completion percentage in high school were on his WR.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:22 AM ^
Correct. He had a D1 WR at Olympia with several long throws / TD's just heaving the ball up and his star receiver making the play.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:42 AM ^
I hate to pile on Joe Milton but Mc Namara showed in one drive that he's better and should be the starting QB the rest of the season.
Milton could be the worst QB in the B1G, even par with Rocky Lombardi. He might play well on State Street then he plays horribly on Main Street, and he's regressing.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:48 AM ^
So sick of him being referred to as a "young quarterback" last night!
November 15th, 2020 at 9:59 AM ^
He graduated from high school the same year as T Lawrence. Think about that.
November 15th, 2020 at 11:34 AM ^
This is what I don’t fucking get either. Milton has been in the program for three years now, he’s a JUNIOR. How is he still “raw”??? Like what??
other programs have true freshmen plying QB and play a shit ton better than anyone Harbaugh has started. As far as I can tell, there is no other reasonable conclusion to draw from this other than that Harbaugh is the exact opposite of the “QB whisperer” he was touted as when he first came to Michigan. In fact, every single QB at Michigan under Harbaugh has been awful, regressed or never developed. It’s mind boggling.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:12 AM ^
The defense of Gattis by so many here is puzzling to me. Gattis was a bad hire. He didn’t deserve the job when he got it. He had never called plays before and had basically been a good WR coach and that’s it. He’s learning on the job and maybe he’s just never going to be a good OC. He’s a hype man, that’s it. Harbaugh should have sent out and found a proven OC.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:16 AM ^
Pep was a very experienced OC, and yet what the team was running only a few games into the season is what we're seeing now. And that is decidedly not what Pep said he wanted to run. Why you trash Gattis after seeing yet another reversion to the Harbaugh mean is beyond me. It's true he may not be a good OC after all, but we have no way of telling because of very obvious interference from a dinosaur.
Personally, I think Gattis would be FAR better at running a Harbaugh free offense...
November 15th, 2020 at 9:20 AM ^
Harbaugh is the person we all have experienced in our professional lives. The person who talks a good game, but whose output doesn't match the talk. This person is changing jobs every two or three years because the current employer is finally on to their game.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:21 AM ^
It’s lazy to just say Gattis was a bad hire. Based on what? Year 2 he has a bunch of skill players that look good but a QB that can’t hit the broad side of a barn coupled with a first year OL with 2 NFL OT prospects missing. His play calling is suspect but his hands are tied by a QB with arm talent but no vision or accuracy. Is this his fault?
As far as hiring an OC, Harbaugh can’t make a home run hire because they all know he’s going to have his say on how he wants it run, no one wants to be our OC.
November 15th, 2020 at 1:12 PM ^
Word is that Gattis wanted Dylan to be the starter but Harbaugh over ruled him and wanted Milton because he was working harder over the summer and Dylan was playing more golf. But talent wise, Dylan was the better option and Gattis knew it. but got over ruled.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:37 AM ^
Isn't that exactly what everyone wants now though? The hidden gem, the up and comer, the hot young dude that's drawing shit up in the dirt and just is too smart for defenses to prep for.
Gattis was a high risk hire, which is, I think, what a lot of people wanted. If Jim had gone the "proven guy" route, he'd have gotten butchered for that too. People would say he's stuck in the past or too stubborn to change or too old to keep up with the game, etc. It just always seems like a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation.
So far Gattis seems like a bust. Not sure why there are so many on this board who seem to think he's just sitting back with these perfect game plans and either not telling Jim while the team drowns in mediocrity and now abject failure or he's just getting shelved by a coach who I think genuinely loves being UMs HC and who wants the team to be successful under his leadership but is an been an embarrassment this year and at times in years past and who took a risk to hire Gattis in the first place. None of that makes sense.
Gattis is what you see out on the field every week. Maybe it will get better as he gains more experience but this idea that he's this genius waiting to be unleashed once JH is gone seems Incredibly, unrealistically optimistic.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:02 AM ^
Is it really unrealistic though? 3 OC's under JH and we still do the same dumb shit week in and week out. That alone tells you its not really on the OC, its on Jim. Bad clock management, terrible play calls in crunch time, looking like shit on the road, etc. There is one consistent thing and thats Jim Harbaugh. He is and has always been the problem.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:21 AM ^
I don’t think anyone is saying he’s a genius waiting to be unleashed. I am just willing to give him a little more time before I say he’s a bad hire.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:28 AM ^
Me too. I think he can and will improve with time. But given what we've produced since he's been here, I am not going to say either give him a shot at the Head Coaching gig (which some seem to be rooting for) and I'm also not going to say he's absolved of blame for where we are now. Yes JH is minimum 75% of the issue here, but (without seeing the numbers) I don't think our offense has taken off since Gattis took over. I just don't get the "everything is shit except Gattis" take. He couldn't figure out how to beat a 27 point performance from MSU... that doesn't exactly scream "keep this man around" to me.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:17 AM ^
Harbaugh lost me for good at the end of 2019 (though I knew it would never work out after the end of 2018, I was still willing to give it one more year).
However, want to echo what you say about motivation. It's pretty clear to me that Harbaugh doesn't have any strong connection with his players. He can't motivate them. I don't think they really care about him. It feels cold & artificial, like so many in the NFL. This is perhaps the biggest reason we can't continue with him, he's lost the locker room.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:28 AM ^
The Amazon special a couple years back opened my eyes to how terrible he is at motivating players. Listening to him speak to the team was just painful...
November 15th, 2020 at 10:00 AM ^
This^. IIRC cringeworthy. Boring. Cliched.
Unwatchable. (Sort of like the games lately.)
JH has a great PR/marketing team, but they can't paper over the lack of... charisma[?[ fire[?], relatability [?]
I ❤ed JH as a player. I thought he was the right hire. I never thought the "return" of Michigan football (from the JUB book) was return to 1967. If that is the case, is there a promising young coach at Miami(NTM) we should be watching for when JH's contract runs out?
November 15th, 2020 at 10:24 AM ^
Lol the John U. Bacon book looks so ridiculous. What a hilarious piece of propaganda. Jim Harbaugh and Return of Michigan Football. What a load of crock.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:41 AM ^
The future looked so bright in 2015.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:43 AM ^
Hindsight sure is 20/20, isn't it? I mean, every single person connected to Michigan football at the time - players, alumni, administration, fans, passersby - fucking EVERYONE - thought Harbaugh was a slam dunk hire. And nothing about 2015 or 2016 said otherwise. 2017 showed some cracks, but injury and no QB masked it. 2018 was ugly; flat out ugly. 2019 showed some promise closing out the season. 2020?
MSU.
But you can't look back on his hiring and say you didn't like it, because the entire world will know you're lying.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:42 AM ^
Same here..Ive been a long time supporter but im not stupid I can see the writing on the wall.. JH and his style have past their expiration date and his inability to win meaningful games seals the his deal...WE CAN DO BETTER...lets just all admit Hes failed and move on...and for those who say but hes 48-21 record those wins for the most part have come against the Bottom feeders
November 15th, 2020 at 9:43 AM ^
If 2020 and hell, life in general have taught me anything is that there are so many things more important than sports. This stuff should be meant for entertainment... not life and death. Which is why I have been able to watch this program just flat out struggle and shoot themselves in the foot over and over without wanting to punt my TV into Lake Michigan. They need to make a change but they aren't going to do it because we keep posting the same shit on here about Harbaugh, why it hasn't worked, when he "lost it," why they should pursue Venables, Fickell, Campbell, etc for the millionth time. It is what it is. They'll make a change of some sort. We'll complain about something regarding it. It'll either work or it won't.
Luckily my alma mater is succeeding with a former Michigan assistant I might add.
November 15th, 2020 at 9:47 AM ^
They all need to go, Gattis included.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:12 AM ^
Harbaugh contract extension still on for after the season!
https://twitter.com/jefflesson/status/1327976843148996610?s=21
November 15th, 2020 at 11:02 AM ^
This team may be worse that the worst of the RR teams, the 3-9 team in 2008.
Worst Hoke team was 5-7 in 2014.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:16 AM ^
Oh grand mufti Walterwhite_88, could you please tell us mere mortals how you are "convinced" Jim Harbaugh is interfering with Coach Gattis?
I look forward to hearing your educated, emotionless response.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:46 AM ^
Every OC since Jed Fisch (4, at last count) has changed his stated offense to the same thing Harbaugh has run consistently throughout his years as a player and coach. If you believe in 'coincidence', so be it...
November 15th, 2020 at 10:47 AM ^
I'm not Walter White but this is the exact same offense we've seen all six years Harbaugh has been here, it's just run out of the shotgun now. Unless Gattis has been secretly calling our plays for all six of those years, that this is and always has been the Harboffense is the simplest explanation.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:48 AM ^
Easy. Look at the personnel groupings on the field.
Do you ever see 4 wide? 5 wide?
How often is a FB on the field? 2 TEs?
The interference is Harbaugh is dictating who is on the field. Gattis has no chance.
November 15th, 2020 at 10:51 AM ^
You’re not special
November 15th, 2020 at 10:59 AM ^
Gattis has been unimpressive as well. I would clean house completely.
November 15th, 2020 at 2:09 PM ^
Both lines suck. You build a team from the inside out. The OL was young already and our two best lineman are hurt. No blocking, no running game. No running game combined with an inaccurate QB is a recipe for disaster. The interior DL has been poor since 2016. Our two best DE’s are out. You can’t stop the run without stout DT’s. We have none. No pass rush, poor corners. Another recipe for disaster. Michigan can’t score and they can’t stop anyone. Rutgers has better lines on both sides of the ball than Michigan. Chalk up another loss. Play Smith and Hinton and the rest of the young guys, at least get something out of this fiasco.