rob f

November 20th, 2017 at 3:32 AM ^

their offensive line is better. We took Ben Bredeson from Wisconsin. Wisconsin took Logan Brown from Michigan. You win some, you lose some. Unfortunately though, we've been losing along the OLine more than winning for quite a while, probably for a good 10-12 years. Too many injuries, poor coaching hires, misses, defections, injuries, poor recruiting, changes in offensive philosophy/coaching, poor development, and (in case I forgot) injuries If/when we get back to where we need to be with offensive line play, I would expect recruiting for the OLine will be easier. A vicious cycle that's got to be broken.

Joined: 11/11/2010

MGoPoints: 194330

Yeoman

November 20th, 2017 at 10:32 AM ^

  • Joe Thomas is reportedly the highest-paid o-lineman (although I don't think analysis of the contract really supports that)
  • Kevin Zeitler is the highest-paid RG
  • Travis Frederick is the second-highest-paid center
  • Rick Wagner is the second-highest-paid RT
  • Robert Havenstein also has a starting RT gig
  • Ryan Ramczyk starts at LT as a rookie

Thomas was a 4-star, Zeitler and Frederick and Havenstein were 3-stars, Wagner was a walk-on TE, Ramczyk was recruited by Chryst at Pitt but as far as I can tell he wasn't even listed as a 2-star and he wound up playing D3 for two years after a year of welding school.

They're going to keep getting offensive line recruits for the same reason we used to get quarterbacks, and if their current staff has as much success teaching the position as the last two, it won't stop anytime soon. (And as Reader71 pointed out, it's also a question of the older guys in the program teaching the newcomers. It's self-perpetuating once you get it going.)

Joined: 06/08/2011

MGoPoints: 21390

corundum

November 19th, 2017 at 10:50 AM ^

Business decision. He's a '19 kid anyways. We still have several options that will be RS Fr next season and a couple of guards that could potentially kick out to RT. Hopefully a LT can emerge from the pack.

Joined: 05/10/2012

MGoPoints: 47323

Squash34

November 19th, 2017 at 11:53 AM ^

Not sure how this is getting down voted. The kid is a 2019 kid and can easily flip by then. But even if not, that class is looking very strong on the line and last year's class (and this years) had a few guys that were very talented but undersized. These guys from 17 class will be ready to go by the time this kids true frosh season starts. It's a lose, for sure. However hardly something to fret about with so long to signing day 19

Joined: 09/13/2016

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DrMantisToboggan

November 19th, 2017 at 10:51 AM ^

After glow of a major win by one of the two teams he was deciding between. We still have a year and a half to change his mind. We have the accessibility advantage. We also have 2 big OT committs in 2018 and are a major player for Nicholas Petit-Frere. Don't lose sleep over Brown just yet.

Joined: 11/26/2014

MGoPoints: 74183

bostonsix

November 19th, 2017 at 10:53 AM ^

coach first. We killed their Oline yesterday, it's just baffling to me that our Dline is so good yet our O line gains nothing from it in practice. The level of competition we have on our team alone should be making our Oline good to great against other teams.

Joined: 01/01/2013

MGoPoints: 13467

maize-blue

November 19th, 2017 at 10:58 AM ^

I've heard that the 1st stringers rarely go against each other in practice. Both O line and D line go against the scout teams mostly. I have no idea of the percentage of time one way or the other. I think it was Jon Jansen or Doug Skene who stated that.

Joined: 01/10/2013

MGoPoints: 44662

DrMantisToboggan

November 19th, 2017 at 11:03 AM ^

1) Our OL is already decent, pretty good given the inexperience. Improvement over the course of the year has been vast. Actually thought the pass pro yesterday was good given Wisconsin's pass rush, until BP got knocked out of course.

2) Good luck finding a better OL coach than Drevno (that isn't already established in the NFL or a top college program). Drev's track record speaks for itself, Frey's as well. Drev's been the guy for Harbaugh at every stop, and everywhere he goes he ends up with a great OL. Stanford went 8-5 the year before they went 12-1 in year 4. It would be foolish and fly in the face of all the data to ditch Drevno right now.

Joined: 11/26/2014

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bostonsix

November 19th, 2017 at 11:26 AM ^

if he is a co- offensive coordinator. This split duty thing for coaches isn't working on offense. our Dline coach is Mattison he has the credentials to be a co-defensive coordinator but isn't because it wouldn't help the D one bit. The O has too many chefs in the kitchen and it is not working in my opinion.

Joined: 01/01/2013

MGoPoints: 13467

DrMantisToboggan

November 19th, 2017 at 11:32 AM ^

A disaster? lol, no. Show me Brady Hoke's OL recruiting and Darrel Funk's coaching and I will show you disaster. We're starting an interior lineman at LT, a true sophomore at LG, a new starter at C, a new starter true sophomore at RG (until last 2 games when it has been a true freshman), and a new starter at RT. Bredeson and Onwenu are the only Harbaugh/Drev recruits to start a majority of our games on the OL. It's hard to even evaluate Drev good or bad at this point because he's still working with a majority of deficient pieces that he inherited from Hoke. The line has improved so much this year. It should continue to improve through the bowl game and the offseason. 

 

If you want someone else in charge of calling plays? Fine. But Drev has done nothing to sully his reputation as a stellar OL coach thus far at Michigan.

Joined: 11/26/2014

MGoPoints: 74183

Coldwater

November 19th, 2017 at 11:50 AM ^

My goodness, A LOT of teams have new starters on the oline. Here's what I see on the oline as far as experience... senior at left tackle, senior at center, Junior at right tackle. That's 21, 22-year-old guys to provide leadership and knowledge. Sophomore at left guard sophomore at right guard until injured. Teams all over the country start sophomores on the offense of line. It's not rare. Michigan only got it's running game going the last three games because they played cupcakes. Put a legit defensive line in front of them, like Wisconsin, and it was like running into a brick wall

Joined: 12/14/2008

MGoPoints: 11234

DrMantisToboggan

November 19th, 2017 at 12:10 PM ^

As I said in another thread, despite your personal connotations with the names Rutgers, Maryland, and Minnesota, Peters faced a tougher 4 game stretch of defenses than Speight did. Also the OL improvement goes back to the bye week and the MSU game. The line didn't wake up against Rutgers, our adjusted line yards took a step forward against MSU and played well against PSU too, we just weren't getting a lot of the available yards. If you can't see the improvement over the course of the last 7 games then I am afraid I can't help you.

Joined: 11/26/2014

MGoPoints: 74183

GhostofJermain…

November 19th, 2017 at 12:03 PM ^

Did a great job yesterday in pass pro other than 3-4 plays.  May sound crazy, but every OL unit in football college and pro has a few bad plays each week.  Kids in high school that look at our OL in the coming years see the same thing we should all see. We are DEEP as hell at each spot.  Could we use a few more elite OL, absolutely, however the cupboards are far from bare and if 1/2 of the kids from the past 2 cycles work out it will be 2-3 years for any 19 kid to get playing time.  The only negs I have ever heard from OL recruits is the perceived practice time being overwhealming.  These elite kids are use to practicing hard a few hours a week in high school and at Michigan it's 4 hours a day bell to bell.  If you don't want to be great and put the time in the coaches will pass, period.

Gun to my head I would also say Logan Brown ends up at Michigan, he has a great relationship with the coaches, and so does his coach.  I agree with LSA, the worst part about Michigan losing in any said week is the way fans act.  Embarrassing. 

If hudson stays on OL next year we will be better than this year, also there is real optimism that Grant will be ready to go.  

Joined: 07/20/2015

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Squash34

November 19th, 2017 at 1:13 PM ^

The thing about having a program known for great oline play is that most guys are not asked to play before 2-3 years. There are exceptions of course, but most kids need time in the weight room to gain weight and mass. Then there is the mental side and technique because most guys are just used to being bigger and stronger than players in high school. Look at Wisconsin, they have a monster line, but only one of the 5 is a 2nd year guy. Two are 3rd year players and 2 are 4th. Hopefully, Michigan can get to a place where even elite guys in 2019 would have to wait a year or two. I agree with our take on the oline play this week too. Some people around here see the QB get hit and say "fucking oline" when it was not on them. This game, I can only remember like 3-4 pressures on the line. Expecting a line to never give up a hit on the qb is rediculous and insulting to any def. When you consider just how good Wisconsin is at getting to the QB, it us asinine. They are an elite Defense, give them credit for that. This is probably the most embarrassing part about a big portion of this fan base. They never give the opponents credit. For instance, every great offensive game was dismissed because it was just Purdue, Minnesota, Indy or Rutgers. Like because they have traditionally have bad defense, but this year they have been much improved. Rutgers is the losest ranked team defense in s&p going into last week. These are not great Defense but they are not shit either. Yet, when you show people that defensive advance stats show these team are much improved and are decent to good defensively, they still call them shit. Wisconsin is another animal, they are arguably the best d in the country yet giving up a few hits makes your line shit? The lack of respect for other teams is truly embarrassing.

Joined: 09/13/2016

MGoPoints: 3062

Squash34

November 19th, 2017 at 2:45 PM ^

And do you think Wisconsin fans are shitting on their line because Michigan's elite dline got the better of them a bunch? I seriously doubt it. Most other fan bases seem to realize that it us ok to acknowledge that other teams have elite units or players and when you play them they will get their share of plays.

Joined: 09/13/2016

MGoPoints: 3062

DHughes5218

November 19th, 2017 at 4:16 PM ^

After reading that I feel Brown just named UM his overwhelming leader and our line averages 300 rushing yards a game, no sacks, and things are only going to get even better. The number one complaint about this team is they are too deep on the offensive line and it's scaring away recruits. You may be right, but getting less than 1.5 ypc yesterday and losing our qb to injury sure makes it seem like you're overly optimistic.

Joined: 10/04/2014

MGoPoints: 7224

buddha

November 19th, 2017 at 2:21 PM ^

This is a funny comment. Do you mean UM has more to offer than UO? Do you mean UM football - specifically - has more to offer than Oregon's football team? Do you mean the State of Michigan has more to offer than the State of Oregon? I'm genuinely confused by your comment.

Joined: 10/08/2009

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