Maximinus Thrax

November 10th, 2010 at 2:38 PM ^

The CFL not being in our country has not stopped countless US citizens from playing there when they saw their NFL chance to be zilch.  I will concede your point that the NFL has no legitimate competition in our country, but that does not detract from the fact that there are other avenues for somebody to play football in they do not want to go the college route.  Newton could have tried his hand in a regional pro league, or piddled arounf at the JC level until he met the NFLs entry requirements.  However, he knew that big-time NCAA football is the surest way to the NFL.  He went with the safe bet, and then chose to break the rules, most likely to the exclusive detriment (in terms of objective penalties) of the school that he supposedly loves.

Joined: 10/26/2008

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Maximinus Thrax

November 10th, 2010 at 1:18 PM ^

Further, I am a CPA.  Being a CPA pays more than being a bookkeeper or an accountant.  In order to achieve tis designation, I choose to abide bye certain rules.  Should I not abide by those rules, I could still work as an accountant per se, but not as a CPA.  Likewise, Newton could still play football, just not NCAA level football (which is the gateway to the riches of the NFL).

Joined: 10/26/2008

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mejunglechop

November 10th, 2010 at 2:39 PM ^

Legally speaking, there's a huge difference between excluding people based on relevant professional standards and excluding a class of potential employees strictly by age. More practically, Newton is already generating millions of dollars in cash. This has nothing to do with whether or not he's qualified to get people to pay a huge amount of money to see him pay football. That question has already been answered.

Joined: 07/09/2008

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Maximinus Thrax

November 10th, 2010 at 2:57 PM ^

We have had the discussion on MGoBlog before as to how much marginal revenue one college player generates for his team (for instance, I assume Auburn would be selling out most games w/o Newton).  Last year they went to the Outback Bowl.  What will be the difference between Outback Bowl $ and whatever bowl $ this year?  True, he will be almost singlehandedly responsible for the upgrade in bowl game, but Auburn is an SEC football team that has no problem generating millions no matter who is the QB.  More realistically though, he may in fact end up costing them a lot depending on how things shake out.

Joined: 10/26/2008

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mejunglechop

November 10th, 2010 at 3:09 PM ^

Auburn is making more money off merchandise, an improved bowl and marginally from TV ratings. The SEC is riding Newton (and other amateur athletes) to massive paydays from ESPN, who in turn is charging (higher) fees for advertisers, who themselves must be getting something out of it to keep paying.

Joined: 07/09/2008

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Maximinus Thrax

November 10th, 2010 at 3:23 PM ^

Unless we are self-employed, aren't we all contributing more to our employer's bottom line than we are taking home in the form of a paycheck?  As was stated prior, Newton is getting an education, he gets food and lodging, as well as a number of other perks that I really don't know much about (apart from a bunch of Under Armor gear).  Out of state tuition at the university of your choice is usually worth at least $40,000 a year.  There are tangible benefits given to these guys.  Of course they don't get a cut of SEC TV revenues, but citing a disparity between corporate revenues/individual benefits would pretty much make any employer look bad.   

Joined: 10/26/2008

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Maximinus Thrax

November 10th, 2010 at 4:46 PM ^

We could look at it like an internship.  I'm sure that a lot of us had them when we were in college.  One that I had paid me a $99 weekly stipend (this was a large entertainment company which owns several of the TV channels that we all watch) , which when you considered that I worked 50 to 60 hours a week, meant that I was taking home less than $2.00/ an hour.  Needless to say, minimum wage was several times that amount, and this was not even close to being a minimum wage job.  However, that is how you get places.  I 

Joined: 10/26/2008

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Don

November 10th, 2010 at 6:52 AM ^

James Meredith and many other African Americans—many of whom came from backgrounds no more wealthy than Cam Newton's—valued education so highly that they literally put their lives on the line in order to legally gain access to southern institutions of higher education.

Fast forward fifty years, and some African American "students" are so contemptuous of the potential value of a free education that they are willing to jeopardize it for short term payments.

Martin Luther King and all the other heroes of the Civil Rights movement are scratching their heads trying to figure out what in hell went wrong.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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MGoCards

November 10th, 2010 at 7:49 AM ^

This is now about the "heroes of the Civil Rights movement" being disappointed in black people? James Meredith wanted to go to college because he wanted an education. Cam Newton had to go to college in order to make a living playing football. If he valued education too highly (one way: to not play football in college) he'd be making a bad investment in his own future. 

Joined: 12/12/2009

MGoPoints: 721

Don

November 10th, 2010 at 8:11 AM ^

"If he valued education too highly he'd be making a bad investment in his own future."

This illustrates exactly the point in my original comment: the fact that there are people all over our country, of every race and ethnicity, who honestly believe that valuing education is a "bad investment" in one's own future is a sad commentary on how self-destructive our national culture has become.

If nothing else, simply the statistical reality of the tiny chances of making it in the NFL, and the short length of NFL careers, would indicate that in fact getting an education is the most prudent thing possible to do for one's future.

There is nothing that prevents Cam Newton from attending Auburn as an honest student, playing football for three or four years, and then going pro, without taking money to do so. Are his family members literally going to perish if he didn't take any money?

Having said that, I think that there should be an avenue for those who truly aren't interested in getting an education to pursue their talents in a sport. I wish there was some way to force the NFL to help fund the formation of a minor league so guys like Newton could play ball and financially help their families. I would bet that 95% of all the recruiting violations and academic fraud violations that are committed by schools involve kids who are neither qualified or interested in getting a college education; if those kids could play a minor league sport in the same way that hockey and baseball players could do, a good deal of the crap would disappear.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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MGoCards

November 10th, 2010 at 8:33 AM ^

 

the fact that there are people all over our country, of every race and ethnicity, who honestly believe that valuing education is a "bad investment" in one's own future is a sad commentary on how self-destructive our national culture has become.

 
You're telling me! I'm the guy (or rather, one of the thousands of guys) finishing a PhD, having spent 20+ of my 30 years in school, to put myself in a position to enter a crap academic job market that wouldn't have paid as well as law school even when it wasn't crap. Now I'll probably adjunct til I die or change fields entirely. Valuing education for me = probably a bad investment. 
 
But I was asking if you were serious about painting this whole thing as if Cam Newton is representative of black students or of the failed aspirations of the Civil Rights movement. Because that's ridiculous. He's not. Most people go to college in order to improve their earning potential. That's all. In the case of most people there's at least an argument that the skills learned in college might translate into greater levels of citizenship and the development of a store of language, information, and methodologies that correlate with achievement and earnings. In the case of Cam Newton, he's basically going to college to show the world that he's a good football player, a fact that the world already knew. If it were legal for him to go pro early, he probably could have signed a pro contract immediately after high school, and there would be nothing wrong with that. Nobody complains that Jenny Capriati or Lionel Messi were pro athletes as teenagers, this "value of education" canard seems to, now that you've mentioned it, be exclusively applied to black kids — males, even — in the US who want to make a living playing basketball and football. And, wouldn't you know it, there are multi-billion dollar industries in place that make the "value of an education" and the concomitant demand that they work for far below market value, damn near compulsory. My internal alarms ring out whenever I hear the shame of the Civil Rights movement mentioned as a criticism for a black athlete trying to get paid something close to what they're worth (that is, above and beyond tuition, food, and vagina). Really! Someone in this thread suggested that free vagina is an ersatz payment for Cam Newton!

Joined: 12/12/2009

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lilpenny1316

November 10th, 2010 at 9:06 AM ^

Greed, including in college athletics has no race barrier.  Athletes of all races playing major college football are benefactors of "gifts".  Remember the former Oklahoma QB, Rhett Bomar?  Not an African American.  It goes on and on.

People of all races and backgrounds fought for various freedoms and would be disappointed in our current day, dumbed down values. 

MLK was about Civil Rights for all people.  That's why you see him speaking out against the war in Vietnam and other social, non-racial, issues later in his life.  So he would be appalled by this, not because of any particular race, but because of the meat market mentality going on in college athletics today. 

Joined: 11/19/2009

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MGoCards

November 10th, 2010 at 9:47 AM ^

I think race matters. Not for the precisely the reasons that Don brings it up, but it would be willfully ignorant to deny that racial perceptions and realities play no role in the way this conversation happens. It wouldn't be doing right by the conversation at hand to deny that there are racial issues involved in this discussion. Though, if they are to be discussed, they have to be discussed very, very delicately so as to avoid flame wars and violating the rules of this forum. So far, I think it's been done well. 

(Also, on another note, to say that the Vietnam War or MLK's anti-poverty campaign were "non-racial" requires vast historical blind spots)

Joined: 12/12/2009

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lilpenny1316

November 10th, 2010 at 1:27 PM ^

Are you saying race played a role what happened?  Or are you saying that people are trying to interject race into this discussion?  I'm confused, but trying to understand. 

No one talks about race when it's Rhett Bomar or the whole SMU scandal.  So I don't understand why race has to be used here.

And with the MLK thing, all I'm trying to point out is that he was interested in civil rights for everyone, and not just one set of people.  So he wouldn't be thrilled about a whole lot of stuff going on these days.

Joined: 11/19/2009

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MGoCards

November 10th, 2010 at 2:37 PM ^

Race is a part of the big picture. It's part of why Auburn, a school in Alabama, a state that 1/4 black, has a black student enrollment of less than 10%. It's part of why, of that 10%, over 10% of those are athletes. It's part of why people evoke Dr. King in a discussion of NCAA infractions. It's part of why some people are really upset about athlete graduation rates. It's part of why some people are angry that proceeds from revenue generating sports go toward scholarships, facilities, and coaching for non-revenue generating sports. It's part of the images we imagine when we hear that Cecil Newton is a pastor. It's part of why nobody really talks about Rhett Bomar. It's part of why some people were resent the NBA age limit and applaud guys who go to Europe instead of pretending to be a college student for a semester. It's part of why some people might rush to defend Cam Newton. It's part of why some people might rush to condemn him. It's not all of the story, of course. But it's a part of it. It's relevant. 

Joined: 12/12/2009

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ATLWolverine

November 10th, 2010 at 3:00 PM ^

Strongly agree with the below that this is condescending and over-generalizing that immediately jumped to the issue of race without any indication that race played a significant role in this issue. Players of many races have taken money while in CFB, and former ASU QB Sam Keller (not African-American) led the charge in suing the NCAA over player likenesses in NCAAFB video games. You can make this argument without racializing it. You're better than this, Don.

Arguing that Newton should be content with what he had because "it was enough for the civil rights leaders" seems ridiculous. Having an equal opportunity as everyone else to attend a university is distinct from the question of benefits extracted by universities from athletes who generate hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue for the schools, and whether such students deserve compensation.

Also, athletic scholarships DO NOT cover the full cost of attendance (http://www.cbsatlanta.com/sports/25512291/detail.html)

Joined: 02/16/2009

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B

November 10th, 2010 at 2:08 AM ^

Newton may have broken federal law or at least his family.  If his dad took money, there is a decent chance he broke a federal law such as structuring, money laundering, or some type of tax reporting law.  I'm not saying it happened, but if it did, it is hard to avoid a paper trail for $200,000 without breaking a federal law. 

Joined: 09/29/2009

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TJ

November 10th, 2010 at 2:11 AM ^

It's obvious the risk of bringing shame to one's self as well as an entire program isn't enough to deter these kids from taking money. I'm not necessarily saying Cam should be the one going to prison, nor do I have any knowledge of what laws he, Auburn, or his family broke by doing what they did (whatever that may be). What I am saying is that the ncaa and the FBI should inflict the harshest punishments possible on anyone and everyone involved. I don't care if Cam Newton gets sent to Gitmo to be waterboarded for a couple of years, I don't want this crap happening to Michigan. 

Joined: 02/22/2010

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Maximinus Thrax

November 10th, 2010 at 7:16 AM ^

There will most likely be tax evasion involved on both the paying and receiving parties (if they deducted these payments in any way on their income tax returns) if this turns out to be true.  Although, realistically, Cam's dad will probably take the fall in that instance.  But anyway, there are very real potential violations of criminal law here.

 

 

EDIT:  I didn't see that this possibility was raised in multiple instances further down the board.

Joined: 10/26/2008

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ken725

November 10th, 2010 at 3:27 AM ^

The only recruit that has a Michigan offer is Kiehl Frazier.  I think there was some early interest, not really sure what happened with his recruitment.  

They also have a commit by the name of Chris Landrum, who is apparently on our team already????

http://rivals.yahoo.com/michigan/football/recruiting/player-Chris-Landr…

Joined: 10/26/2008

MGoPoints: 32866

Logan88

November 10th, 2010 at 7:38 AM ^

Whatever it was, it was too much.

He has been a pretty big disappointment thus far in nearly two years as a starter for USF. I'm glad we have Denard Forcier instead of Daniels, personally.

Daniels passing numbers this season: 59%, 155 ypg, 8 TD, 11 INT

Daniels rushing numbers this season: 240 yards total, 30.0 ypg, 2.9 ypc, 4 TD

Joined: 01/05/2009

MGoPoints: 8078

GhostPoster

November 10th, 2010 at 3:43 AM ^

If these rumors and allegations were brought to the SEC last January, why did it take so long to get out?  I mean there's no question, the SEC is by FAR the shadiest conference, but is it possible that they withheld information from the NCAA?  It seems as if the SEC needs to be investigated as well as Auburn.  and if these rumors are true, expect the big Auburn commits to jump ship immediately.  USC was made an example of, Auburn will get that punishment plus more.

Joined: 10/04/2010

MGoPoints: 195

Logan88

November 10th, 2010 at 7:42 AM ^

Normally, I would agree with you but this appears to be coming from multiple sources and is being spearheaded by the national media, not a local media outlet with an axe to grind.

I do agree that judgement should be reserved until more has been revealed but based on what has come out at this early juncture...it is not looking good for Newton/Auburn.

Joined: 01/05/2009

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A2MIKE

November 10th, 2010 at 6:42 AM ^

You know who benefits the most from this... TCU.  I bet a dollar that Auburn slowly starts to slip in the polls, and this whole thing will become a distraction for Auburn and cause them to lose to Bama or in the SEC title game.

Joined: 10/10/2009

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blueheron

November 10th, 2010 at 7:18 AM ^

I can easily see that this article predates the ESPN one (which was posted early this morning), and I'm too lazy to chase the details, *and* I'm not generally a big fan of Doyel, but here you go:

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/14267701/consider-the-so…

New allegations aside, I think it's safe to say that a few people jumped the gun on this.  Freep-ish, really.

So, I guess this is a comment on the events up to yesterday evening.

Joined: 03/26/2009

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Rasmus

November 10th, 2010 at 8:58 AM ^

The ESPN article linked by the OP is based on the same source as everything else, John Bond. But Bond would not agree to talk to ESPN without anonymity, so ESPN does not directly name him. But they do so indirectly (read the whole article). If you don't think their first source is Bond, I've got a nice bridge I'd like to sell you in Brooklyn.

With regard to Bond's credibility, he was/is involved in a project to build luxury condos next to the university stadium --- Rich Rodriguez's investments in similar projects at Virginia Tech and Alabama failed ugly, and so it's possible Bond is having serious money problems of his own, like Lamar Greene (problematic Clemson booster), the guy who basically swindled Rodriguez et al. in those deals.

Then ESPN has a second source, the person who Newton called (a nice thing to do, and something money-grubbing scumbags generally don't make their kids do) after he chose Auburn -- the source of the "it was too much money" quote. Dunno who that might be, but it's probably safe to say that it could be smoke but no fire, a misunderstanding in an awkward conversation between an adult and a 17-year-old. There's no question Auburn, a private university, and Mississippi State, a public university in a state that has always been dead last in education spending in the United States, are worlds apart when it comes to money to spend on facilities and the like.

Joined: 07/02/2009

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NateVolk

November 10th, 2010 at 9:04 AM ^

If I were Auburn, I'd consider hiring you to represent us at the hearing.

This is bad. Way worse than USC potentially. 

The question we all need to ask ourselves is how do they go from getting lit in recruiting by one of the nation's top teams and coaches (in their own state no less), coming off a down season under a quality coach in Tubberville, then hire a guy that got run out of Iowa State he was so blah, and still get to this in a little over a year?

Joe Schad is a solid reporter.  Auburn is staring down the barrel of a loaded gun. They may as well do what they are doing: hissing and fighting it in the media.  Then just hope everything turns out alright. If it was done, the damage is set and they'll get nailed anyways.  

Joined: 07/19/2010

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