OT: Any other parents worried about young men struggling?
Noticed my son's honor section at school was overwhelmingly girls. Poked around on google and learned gender achievement gap is a modern phenom - gen Y and Z girls take tougher advanced courses, higher GPAs, majority of top 10% of their graduating class, complete undergrad on time (boys taking 5 and 6 years, if they finish), 60/40 girls to boys earning bachelors, masters, professional degrees, and young women are dominating a lot of industries.
Gen y and z boys seem to glorify immaturity and slacking, e.g. Barstool. Video game addiction has gone mainstream, even popular boys are obsessed, e.g. Fortnite. Don't read for leisure. Lots of apathy, disengagement, aren't as focused on academics and career – don't seem to be adapting to the demands to succeed in modern hyper-competitive economy.
What is going on?
February 26th, 2018 at 11:35 PM ^
The oldest Gen Zs (mid-90s births) are finishing college now, not middle schoolers.
February 26th, 2018 at 4:40 PM ^
This is an issue across the Western world. Some studies suggest that coed schooling hurts male achievement, but that remains controversial.
February 26th, 2018 at 4:54 PM ^
You're right, that's a bit of a controversial take. But I believe that because of (1) the distraction factor and (2) the ability to set up different learning structures: boys tend to be less uncomfortable w/ a lack of structure while girls tend to be more comfortable w/ structure (this may get me some negs).
For disclosure, I did attend one of the Detroit all-male Catholic schools for HS.
February 26th, 2018 at 4:54 PM ^
The other thing is that there is some evidence that boys and girls, on the average, intellectually mature at slightly different paces, and so schooling would naturally favor those who mature faster (girls).
February 26th, 2018 at 6:20 PM ^
I think this is a big piece of it, but I'm not sure if we're seeing the Gender Achievement (GA) gap increase as kids go from say K-3 to 4-8 to 9-12.
February 26th, 2018 at 6:33 PM ^
I believe the argument is something like this: the gap in intellectual maturity is present in the early childhood years, resulting in the average boy being less ready for kindergarten than the average girl. Both will show growth over the K-12 period, but the girl never loses that initial advantage. The boy is always the equivalent of about a half-year behind, or something like that. He finally catches up right around the college years.
February 26th, 2018 at 9:39 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 4:40 PM ^
The people at the top, I mean very top - much higher than politicians fear men more than women. They can control women easier so they want them at the top.
Women are very good at structured school. Men learn differently; more often involving outdoors, etc.
February 26th, 2018 at 5:36 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 6:19 PM ^
All throughout history the cultures that have devalued and shunned men have always paid the price by being conquered by more masculine cultures. Look at the Iroquois once the Colonists came and took their land. Ancient Rome under Julius Caesar conquered Ancient Egypt once Cleopatra took command. The Feminist Republic of Sweden as we speak is getting carved up by Muslim refugees who by the way are committing unspeakable amounts of gang rape at five times the rate the native male population is. China and (and Russia for that matter) are gaining influence in their part of the world because they don't tolerate foreigners the way West does. Men in general have greater loyalty to the tribe than women
February 26th, 2018 at 6:34 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 6:53 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 6:54 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 7:00 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 9:45 PM ^
Please don't tell me you're a Michigan grad.
February 26th, 2018 at 11:49 PM ^
February 27th, 2018 at 12:35 PM ^
wiped out Queen Elizabeth's fleet...oh, wait a minute.
February 26th, 2018 at 11:04 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 4:41 PM ^
The way school is set up favors girls. Kids are taught to sit still and work quietly as opposed to being physically active and moving around the classroom which has been scientifically proved to help boys learn.
February 26th, 2018 at 4:47 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 8:27 PM ^
February 27th, 2018 at 12:08 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 5:02 PM ^
When it came time to choose a school for my son, we chose a similar set up. Co-ed school with single sex classrooms. There aren’t many of them left and I feel fortunate we have this choice where we live.
The teachers in his school have incredible experience dealing with the energy of boys. And, more importantly in my eyes, he’s not being compared to girls who, in almost every way, are likely better behaved.
February 26th, 2018 at 5:22 PM ^
Cranbrook-Kingswood in Bloomfield Hills?
February 27th, 2018 at 12:36 PM ^
But, I just checked it out the website and it looks like an impressive place.
What's the reputation of the school? Is it 1) academically challenging and they send kids to top colleges, 2) a place to park trouble makers or 3) somewhere in between?
February 27th, 2018 at 12:50 PM ^
CK is the top boarding school in the Midwest, ranked 10-20 range in the nation.
February 26th, 2018 at 4:42 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 4:48 PM ^
Pretty much sums it up IMO. Females don't necessarily think of this so much.
I also think there is some societal forces which lead to teenage guys acting out in classes (fucking with the teacher) where females don't seem to do that at all in HS.
February 26th, 2018 at 5:22 PM ^
I read once about a study in which the addition of one girl to a previously all-male class environment significantly changed the way the boys behaved in class - some started manifesting "tough" behavior in the girl's presence, after having not done so before.
I wouldn't say that girls never act out in class, though. Having worked in secondary education, I can tell you that some girls can be absolute hell-raisers.
February 26th, 2018 at 5:40 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 4:43 PM ^
Not the place for this discussion.
February 26th, 2018 at 4:48 PM ^
Please delete this thread
February 26th, 2018 at 4:49 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 4:51 PM ^
February 27th, 2018 at 2:33 AM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 4:53 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 4:55 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 4:53 PM ^
It's not so much a differentiation in intellectual capacity by gender, but many girls are seen by teachers as advanced starting in the middle school level because they are better at, for lack of a better term, playing school. This, broadly, means they have the discipline to be organized, complete assigned work on time, form study partnerships, and retain information for the long-term. If a school goes off strictly grades in middle school over standardized test scores or a more hybrid/mixed, they are more likely to be selected for accelerated pathways in high school course work.
This usually works out fine for accelerated classes, but can become difficult when they hit AP classes, which require not only the skills developed to be "good" at school, but also the higher levels of Bloom's Taxonomy to engaged in the critical thinking necessary to be successful. By that point, gender splits tend to become a little more even.
This does not explain all of the gaps, but its a process that starts well before high school.
February 26th, 2018 at 5:07 PM ^
The gaps do occur quite early on. I wonder how much of it stems from the fact that elementary teachers are overwhelmingly female? Is it easier for teachers to relate to students of the same gender, and vice-versa? I don't know.
Personally, I had one male teacher in elementary school - in science, of course.
February 26th, 2018 at 5:28 PM ^
It's something like, nationally, 3:1 women to male ratio across the board for teachers, with a 9:1 ratio at the elementary level, and 13:12 at the high school level. (Middle school grade ranges vary across the country, so those estimates are hard to firm up, but I would think it's probably something like 2:1 or 3:2)
I know my son's K-2 school has no male teachers except for the technology teacher and the principal.
All of that said, I don't know if having all female teachers in elementary school leads students on any one particular path. My experiences tell me that parents who value education, which focuses on effort, doing one's best, self-improvement, and a commitment to reading are going to have successful students no matter the gender. But that is a wonderful notion made harder often by socio-economic circumstances. If your parents are working two jobs to make ends meet, it's harder to make sure your kid is reading 20 minutes a night, especially if you only get to see them for a little bit each day.
One of the things that stuck with me at Michigan in the Ed program about classroom management sticks with me to this day: "If there were a surefire solution to this, we'd teach it to you day 1 rather than make you go through all of these hoops. We'd be wasting your time and your money otherwise."
February 26th, 2018 at 5:39 PM ^
Certainly there are lots of factors behind academic success. But I do think there is a trust factor there - the student needs to "buy what the teacher's selling" - and it's conceivable that this is made somewhat easier when the student and teacher are of the same gender.
That 9:1 ratio at the elementary level is definitely not ideal, but doesn't surprise me. There is a perception that men don't "belong" at that level, that they should stick to secondary ed. Old stereotypes are hard to dispel.
February 26th, 2018 at 5:03 PM ^
of intellectual banter you will NEVER see on the RCMB.
Congrats, Yoastal - you have scared away the Sparty trolls for the day...
February 26th, 2018 at 5:06 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 6:24 PM ^
got any for blue oyster cult?
February 26th, 2018 at 5:10 PM ^
Such an insightful and smart comment. To get into all the AP courses, most high schools require that earlier honors track foundation.
February 26th, 2018 at 5:22 PM ^
Spending the last two weeks getting the selection slips from my future AP U.S. History students have made me think about this process overall.
February 26th, 2018 at 4:53 PM ^
February 26th, 2018 at 4:56 PM ^
In my estimation, girls are more prone to conforming to their parents' desires, as well as focusing on socialization. On the other side, boys are more prone to following their own path in terms of what they want versus what their parents want, and fall into the trap of the constant cheap electronic entertainment constantly available to them in this day and age. While girls also do so, especially as social media is concerned, it's of more of a multitasking "checking it constantly for short periods of time, but not spending solid hours upon hours fixated on a solitary thing" situation, as males are more prone to do.
Part of it, I think, has to do with girls maturing more quickly, as well as being wired differently in terms of their goals in terms of a career. For example, I had a buddy growing up who became a mechanic, and as such eschewed higher education entirely, and absolutely loves it while making decent money. On the other hand, his sister got a master's degree while doing well in school, and hardly makes any money in her chosen career. Lots of careers, especially factory jobs and the trades, don't appeal to the vast majority of females, but there's a larger number of males who could work their whole lives doing construction or driving a truck and the like and be entirely happy. It might not be politically correct to say, but I think that's the reality in general, though there are obviously exceptions.
I don't really think that the gap is a huge deal, given that the cream of the crop from both genders will rise up at the end of the day. It was the right choice for me and many readers of this blog, given that we're all here because of our beloved Michigan, but it's not right for everybody. I actually think that there is too much emphasis placed on four year college educations from the average parent and the average kid, but that's another discussion.
February 26th, 2018 at 4:55 PM ^