MSU is investigating Sue Carter over a former relationship
In what seems like obvious retaliation, MSU has opened up an investigation into a relationship Sue Carter had with a student 25 years ago. Sue Carter is the one who resigned from a position last week saying she no longer had the heart or desire to support that administration.
Link to the article
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/01/29/msu-rep-probe/109929232/
Here is a response in the article from Carter.
“I am sorry for the harm she believes I caused in a consensual relationship 25 years ago when I was not her professor and we were at different universities,” she said in a statement. “While untoward, this was a legal, mutual, very short-term relationship. I am surprised that the Office of Institutional Equity would launch an investigation without the courtesy of informing me and then announcing publicly prior to gathering any information beyond her allegations. This is a knee-jerk reaction to an accusation from a troubled woman made over a quarter of a century later ...”
January 30th, 2018 at 7:52 AM ^
January 30th, 2018 at 8:09 AM ^
January 30th, 2018 at 8:09 AM ^
January 30th, 2018 at 9:27 AM ^
You're pretty dense, dude.
January 30th, 2018 at 12:58 AM ^
Then why would MSU make it known publicly before it was even slightly investigated?
January 30th, 2018 at 1:02 AM ^
To make it look like you're handling the situation seriously with an example situation that also serves your cause. It's that simple.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:09 AM ^
I have some ocean front property in Ann Arbor if you're interested, very exclusive! I'll give you a heck of a deal.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:17 AM ^
Let's take your approach in serving for MSU...
Breaking News: MSU ignores sexual misconduct report against former athletic rep Sue Carter.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:23 AM ^
please get the fuck out of here, it is not a sexual misconduct claim. The claim was an inappropriate relationship, you trying to phrase it in that way is fucking disgusting and im done with you. Keep defending those pedophile enablers you sick fuck.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:27 AM ^
You've lost it man. You've lost it. It's literally a discussion about a sexual misconduct reported by someone who felt they were violated. I didn't realize you get to determine which cases are valid. No one is defending any "pedophile enablers" and you know that. I know you know that. I also know that you realize you're not quite up to task intellectually in this argument, which is why you say things like that. You're a poor representative of our university. It's ironic because you probably should have been in East Lansing.
January 30th, 2018 at 6:53 AM ^
January 30th, 2018 at 9:31 AM ^
You're a comlete fucking troll, and have been since you "joined". This place is out of control.
People running it don't seem to give a shit. Whatever.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:30 PM ^
Just to show how alone on this island you are, even the RCMB posters are saying the complaint is garbage
"So Fedon-Keyt is saying that Carter can not speak out against what Nassar did because she had a consensual sexual relationship 25 years ago with someone who was of legal age?
And is she really comparing her LEGAL and WILLING sexual relationship with Carter to what this monster Nassar did to those INNOCENT children???
What...in...the...actual...fuck."
January 30th, 2018 at 1:45 AM ^
This is just for you. Forget about everyone else. You know when you go to bed tonight, that you had to succumb to personal attacks because you couldn't defend your own argument otherwise. You were disingenuous. When you say something like you do, it hurts you a little bit, but you brush it aside. It'll catch up with you. Try to be more self-reflective. Try to think beyond the thoughts of a child and black and white. Your life still can be greater than it is.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:49 AM ^
"you had to succumg to personal attacks..."
"try to think beyond the thoughts of a child..."
mmmkay.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:53 AM ^
I bet you were really good at the I'm rubber you're glue game as a kid and whatever you make of that
January 30th, 2018 at 6:55 AM ^
Holy crap dude, you post alot of crap to get that many posts in 4 months. Maybe you can just shut up.
January 30th, 2018 at 2:55 AM ^
You are 100% in the right here. Embarassingly, people are wrong on numerous core facts throughout this thread(for instance, she actually was an MSU employee at the time of the incident and she remains a faculty member to this day, having merely stepped down from her seperate role as athletic rep)
When an accusation that a current MSU professor used her role at MSU to pray upon a barely legal student(who was at her most vulnerable due to her parents plane crash death) comes across MSUs desk, investigating it is the most obvious choice in the world. Even if the prof claims the relationship wasnt consumated until after the class was finished.
Given not only their current internationally publicized failings in this area, but also the "#metoo moment", not investigating this relationship, which the prof herself refers to as untoward, would be a deathwish(And a horrible decision regardless of that).
The fact that things have devolved to the point that people are using an article they barely skimmed to decry MSU of all places for OVERinvestigating sexual assault (lol) and calling anyone who politely disagrees a "pedophile defender" because they dont like the rival sports team is embarassing and I hope this person didnt graduate from UM.
The fact that such obvious sentiments elicits "Are you or have you ever been a member of NAMBLA?" shows that people might be letting the rivalry cloud their judgment and risk overstepping from deserved calls for justice to a wider ranging witch hunt.
January 30th, 2018 at 8:03 AM ^
is "legal". So unless she raped someone idgaf about what happens between two adults.
I've known a few women (and one man) that have dated their professors.
This investigation is a distraction designed to muddy the waters about all the criminal activity in MSU's athletic department and administration and to impugn Sue Carter's reputation.
January 30th, 2018 at 8:19 AM ^
Yup - that's all it is, an effort to belittle the reputation of a professor that called them out. The woman was not a student at MSU, nor was she a student of Carter's. It was a relationship between two adults that didn't work out. If that needs to be investigated as sexual misconduct, then everybody posting on here is going to end up in court for dumping a past girlfriend at some point in our lives.
The only "witch hunt" underway is one being waged by MSU to find anything that will redirect publicity somewhere else. They (MSU BoT) still don't get the mess they're in, and now they're doubling down (again) to bring on a retaliation lawsuit.
I hope Snyder figures out if he can remove the entire board soon...
January 30th, 2018 at 12:02 PM ^
The bar for sexual impropriety for teacher/student relationships has never been "is she 18?".
Many High School girls are "legal".
Given how much MSU is being hammered by many for "merely" cooperating with the authorities rather than conducting their own investigations and having a higher standard, looking into a complaint of sexual impropriety here does not end with the fact that her student was 18.
The complaint came in and the complainant has been vocal. MSU either ignores the woman alleging abuses at the hand of one of their active faculty(the Mad Hatter plan) or looks into it. They are either honest and transparent when asked about this or they obfuscate.
These are obvious choices from MSU's perspective.
January 30th, 2018 at 12:36 PM ^
16, not 18, is legal. Unless you're in a position of authority over the individual in question, like a teacher, doctor, coach, etc. Once the other party turns 18 all bets are off, at least as far as criminal liability is concerned. Although I imagine that a high school teacher would probably be fired for having sex with an 18 year old student.
This situation sounds like a she said / she said, between two adults, 25 years ago.
Both people were adults. Unless the complainant is making an actual rape allegation, there's nothing to investigate.
January 30th, 2018 at 2:01 PM ^
Thanks for the pedantry on pederasty(and pedophilia more broadly), but I am aware of the age of majority laws, which vary from state to state, but I didnt think I needed to get into that minutiae since those variations/specifics had nothing to do with the point I was making there.
You are also getting pretty far afield from the actual central debate here: whether MSU is looking into her as a form of retaliation.
The obvious answer is no.
Regardless of what you think of the accuser and her claims, MSU simply is not going to dismiss allegations of sexual impropriety by a current professor from a former student of hers without looking into it. That people believe they would do so, and then tell the press that, are delusional.
In a world where where Aziz Ansari is viewed by many as an assailant and millions(billions?) of dollars are at stake for MSU(not to mention every reporter out for blood), they would have done the exact same thing for any other professor on campus.
MSU would look into any allegation that comes through the doors right now and when asked by the media, they would tell them that they are looking into it and taking it seriously.
The notion that anything they have done, at least publicly, so far constitutes retaliation is moronic. The people who are sure of it are letting their judgement be clouded by sports rivalries, which is embarassing.
January 30th, 2018 at 2:11 PM ^
are plainly bullshit, and not worthy of investigation. I had a relationship with someone 25 years ago and thinking back on it I don't like the way they courted me. That's the sum total of the allegations. Therefore, I think it's entirely possible that the investigation is retaliatory in nature.
But we're obviously not going to agree on this, so Go Blue.
January 30th, 2018 at 2:32 PM ^
I suspect we agree on more than you'd think. I agree that legal sex from almost 3 decades ago should not necessitate a full blown investigation, although if someone started throwing around the words abuse I would at least look into it/hear them out and a prof having a predilection for teen girls/students is concerning, particularly given MSUs current troubles.
In the world we live in, however, I dont think MSU would have handled it any differently if it were any other professor because they would get crucified for doing so at a time when they can least afford that type of publicity(not to mention the impending billion dollar civil litigation..).
Agree to disagree though and glad we arent going further down this rabbit hole.
January 30th, 2018 at 9:18 AM ^
"for instance, she actually was an MSU employee at the time of the incident"
http://www.heraldpalladium.com/sports/local/niles-graduate-carter-faces…
"Ellen Fedon-Keyt, now 47, e-mailed the members of the athletic council on Saturday saying she was about 19 years old and an undergraduate student at Wayne State University when Carter, who was at one time her professor, befriended her and manipulated her into a sexual relationship that felt “wrong and distorted,” the Free Press reported Monday night."
So... it WASN'T at MSU and she WASN'T an MSU employee at the time of the incident.
... based on the wording, it also sounds like she wasn't her professor at the time of the relationship either.
January 30th, 2018 at 9:38 AM ^
It looks like she was her proferssor at one time (girl18 at WS), then perhaps Carter started working at MSU and THATS when the relationship started (girl now 19, still at WS but professor then at MSU).
January 30th, 2018 at 10:13 AM ^
Isn't that pretty much how all relationships start?
January 30th, 2018 at 11:55 AM ^
The incident I am referring to in that sentence was when her relationship with a young girl that had been her student became sexual in nature. That should be fairly obvious from the context here...
The Det News article we are discussing has Carter herself claiming that the incident happened 25 years ago.
Sue Carter joined MSUs faculty in 1991
So do the simple math and apologize.
Now could Carter be lying to age up her victim? Sure, but using her own figure to determine whether or not she was at MSU at the time hardly seems unfair to her. Its her own timeline.
Also, the far more relevant matter is that she is active faculty at MSU today and determining whether her admittedly "untoward" sexual behavior represents a threat moving forward. MSU just doing their due dilligence.
Susan Carter is not a martyr. It is routine and obvious to at least look into something like this regarding an active professor. Given the current controversy and climate, it is more than obvious from MSU's perspective.
Nice "gotcha moment" though. You are fake news and failing.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:58 PM ^
But wait, the woman she had a relationship wasn't a student of hers at the time of the relationship and she was, furthermore, not at MSU. So, while I think it's untoward for an adult to have a relationship with a teenager, it wasn't when they were on the same campus together nor did she have any authority over the younger woman.
So...I don't know. Seems like a revenge thing to me.
January 30th, 2018 at 2:10 PM ^
I largely agree that what we know of these allegations should not cost her her job and if MSU finds her guilty, I will believe that she is just another victim of the political expediency that has been happening increasingly on such matters.
My point, and I believe the central point at issue, is that MSU is not retaliating for her critical remarks and that they would have likely handled complaints against any professor the exact same way because of the current climate and the situation in which they find themselves.
January 30th, 2018 at 12:59 AM ^
It's not that they shouldn't check into it, it's that they shouldn't get the megaphone out and broadcast it 47 seconds after they hung up the phone without even attempting to verify anything.
By this standard, anyone could report anything, and it should make the front page that afternoon.
So, either they are idiots, or this is clearly kneejerk retaliation.
My guess would be the later, under the guise of "in the name of survivors everywhere, we must not let anything go unchecked!"
January 30th, 2018 at 1:02 AM ^
is just a pathetic attempt to discredit and hurt Carter.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:09 AM ^
Here's a good question for you that you don't want to answer because it's not black and white: What should have MSU done when receiving a report about sexual misconduct at a time when their university is under intense scrunity for ... wait for it ... sexual misconduct and assault?
January 30th, 2018 at 1:18 AM ^
should have passed it on and kept their mouths shut until they investigate. She has not been accused of a crime right, this is being put out to put her ethics into question. You defending it this vigorously makes me put your ethics into question.
And the complaint went to the committee that she resinged as chair from. It would not suprise me if someone who knew her pretty well on that committee reached out to the woman to get that complaint.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:23 AM ^
Keep their mouth shuts. Got it. I thought maybe that was one of the problems people had been discussing lately, but I probably misunderstood. It's always important to internally screen a sexual misconduct case and make sure it's worth passing on to the authorities or public.
January 30th, 2018 at 9:26 AM ^
January 30th, 2018 at 1:14 AM ^
Seriously- it's black and white. At least make an attempt to see the forest for the trees.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:19 AM ^
You're denser than your failed metaphor.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:26 AM ^
mkay.
January 30th, 2018 at 9:32 AM ^
You dumb motherfucker.
January 30th, 2018 at 9:20 AM ^
Well.. based on evidence - it doesn't appear they received a report about sexual misconduct.
They received a report about a failed relationship between two adults, one of whom had PREVIOUSLY been a professor teaching the other.
If it violates neither the law, nor university policy... it isn't misconduct.
January 30th, 2018 at 1:10 AM ^
I mean, I'm trying to grasp how they could STILL not get it...
This is a slap in the face to the hundreds of victims who've waited for YEARS to be acknowledged and taken seriously.
MSU can go for decades letting this crap happen, then they somehow find it possible to look into an issue w/ Carter days after she resigns?
Get your effing priorities straight, MSU.
January 30th, 2018 at 6:48 AM ^
January 30th, 2018 at 6:52 AM ^
January 30th, 2018 at 8:50 AM ^
Please go read the article that was linked. It provides quite a bit of insight. One such insight is that the main source of information is an e-mail from the accuser sent to the Detroit News. That's how this story got started - not MSU reporting it to the media. MSU made a single boiler plate statement confirming that there is an investigation but not providing any details.
January 30th, 2018 at 12:15 AM ^
Trying to do the right thing now by nitpicking something w/ her 25 yrs ago? Maybe they should investigate some more recent trangressions? Can anyone think of something else that seems more recent and pressing?
January 30th, 2018 at 12:40 AM ^
January 30th, 2018 at 1:16 AM ^
I wonder if Carter got the abbreviated report... Sure hope not... /s