OL recruiting getting interesting

Submitted by Real and Spectacular on
There's some slight buzz that Aaron Banks may commit to us tomorrow. He is a top 200 player so that's a good thing, but it would make things interesting. He would be #5, we consider Ruiz and Wilson to be virtual locks which would take the class to 7 OL, most of them tackles. Then consider Filiaga is announcing next month (and also many of his recent Twitter follows are UM players) and that's a lot of O linemen. I know we are still recruiting Slaton hard as well but we will not have room for all of these guys. Wonder if there will be any late shuffling with someone who drops.
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getsome

December 8th, 2016 at 4:56 PM ^

i guess 9 makes sense when considering dudes with potential on either side of the ball - for example, i think paea and hudson could develop into nice DL via hard work, vastly improved technique, great coaching (which theyll get), etc, i just initially thought both looked like OL prospects on tape.  never a bad thing to have 300 pounders with potential on either line, ready to sort out at future date based on development, depth, inclination, etc (which is why i liked the kid boss tagaloa as a prospect).  this staff knows what theyre doing and harbaugh is meticulous in all things including roster / #s management so theyll obviously be ok - itll be interesting to follow though, thats for sure

Joined: 09/07/2013

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Tuebor

December 8th, 2016 at 4:09 PM ^

Yes really.  For all the struggles we've had at OL over the past 4 years Kugler and Dawson have only had 1 start between them.  They aren't talented enough to waste 2 years worth of starting experience for guys who won't be here in 2018. 

 

Think about it this way. We have to replace 3 starters on the OL in 2017.  If Kugler and Dawson start then we will have to replace 3 more starters on the OL in 2018.  With that kind of turnover at what point do we get our dominant Harbaugh's Stanford style Offensive Line?  2019?  2020?

 

 

Joined: 03/14/2011

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reshp1

December 8th, 2016 at 4:52 PM ^

Not being able to push past mediocre guys ahead of them is not the same thing as being passed by freshman, which is what would happen for both of them not to start at this point. Also they've had 4 years, but only 2 with Drevno coaching them, so you shouldn't rule out improvement in year 3.

Those guys you named never lived up to their hype or they'll all either get drafted or get looks on NFL practice squads, so it's not like they were scrubs either. I would be much more comfortable starting Kugler and Dawson, assuming they are just slightly behind the departing guys, than freshman. Even Cole and Bredeson, as college ready as they were, barely kept their head above water their freshman years.

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stephenrjking

December 8th, 2016 at 5:58 PM ^

Kugler was clearly in the conversation this season, albeit not close enough to win a job (he did, essentially, get passed by a freshman himself). How much did Dawson play, though? The left side was wide open for a competitive guy to step up after the Newsome injury and Dawson wasn't in the picture. 

 

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Reader71

December 9th, 2016 at 1:11 PM ^

Not for Bo. I thought they were good. I have critiques on each individual guy, but I think they were a good line as a whole. I think the only think keeping them from being one of the great lines we are used to is a top LT. They were pretty good in protection, but they have been OK in that regard for a couple of seasons. I think our RB took a big step back in protection this season, which made the OL look a bit worse than they actually were. Smith, in particular, wasn't as good in protection as he had been. In the run game, I think we did a nice job of opening holes. I still didn't see the ability to move the line of scrimmage consistently, but we were pretty good at creating a hole by blocking guys laterally at the point of attack. That's the minimum requirement to a successful run game, and we got it pretty consistently.

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Tuebor

December 9th, 2016 at 9:13 AM ^

I'm aware that Kugler and Dawson may be ahead of the freshmen.  But the freshmen will benifit more from the playing time than kugler or dawson.    Replacing 3 starters on the OL 2 years in a row, which is what we'd have to do if Kugler and Dawson start next year, doesn't give me confidence in building a dominant offensive line.  I'd rather take a few growing pains in 2017 knowing that in 2018 we should be locked and loaded with a 3rd year starter at QB, 3 year contributer at RB, WR, TE, Junior Rashan Gary, and an experienced Defense.  2018 could be another chance to win it all, but if we are stuck with an inexperienced OLine it could all fall apart.

Joined: 03/14/2011

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ST3

December 8th, 2016 at 6:01 PM ^

I suspect Jim's best Stanford style line was his 2010 team that went 12-1. They averaged 5.2 yards per carry and 214 ypg. The team scored 40.3 ppg against a schedule that had 2 top 25 teams on it. Jim's 2016 UofM team averaged 5.0 yards per carry and 223 ypg against a schedule that included 5 top 25 teams. Michigan averaged 41 ppg this season. The Stanford team benefitted from Andrew Luck gaining 453 yards at 8.2 ypc. The 2016 UofM team had Wilton Speight. I know we had a mediocre line, but guys, lets give credit where credit is due. Michigan had a good offense this season. The output exceeded the sum of the parts.

How many of you watched Harbaugh's Stanford teams? Living on the west coast, I had the good fortune of being able to watch many of their games. Heck, I watched the 41-38 upset over USC that announced Harbaugh's arrival on the scene. I know it's easy to look back and glorify the past, but those teams had some ugly, slobberknocker-style, battle in the trenches games. Getting 5.2 or 5.0 ypc isn't always pretty, but it can be darn effective when paired with a dominating defense and a Harbaugh-coached QB.

Here's another interesting tidbit I found. In Luck's first year starting (3rd season of Harbaugh,) the Cardinal converted 44% of their third downs. In Speight's first year of starting (2nd season of Harbaugh) Michigan converted 44% of our third downs. Stanford converted an absurd 57% of third downs in Luck's second season. If that's what you guys want, or are hoping for, I'm fine with that. In Harbaugh's first two years at Stanford, they only converted 29 and 38% of the time. So really, they only had a dominating line for his last season.

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maize-blue

December 8th, 2016 at 4:21 PM ^

I've heard Sam Webb state that Dawson could be one of the top 5 lineman on the roster. His biggest fault is one of motivation or effort. Not sure if true or not but Dawson could be a guy who is in the discussion next season.

Joined: 01/10/2013

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getsome

December 8th, 2016 at 5:14 PM ^

very troubling if in fact its motivation / effort keeping dawson (or anyone else) off the field.  student-athletes dedicate too much time, effort, etc to not be 100% in, especially after several years in the program.  i had teammates just go thru the motions in order to remain on scholarship and graduate debt-free, its not uncommon (especially if guys realize theyre likely to never really play or dont want to for some reason) - just unfortunate.  and harbaugh seems like the type to reject that attitude.  hopefully its untrue, but if not, hopefully dawson finds and flips the switch

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jerseyblue

December 8th, 2016 at 4:03 PM ^

Herbert may flip to Miami or Florida if he is seduced by their lies about starting as a true Freshman and/or is afraid of competition here. Also I'm still glancing at the sky now and then to bargain with a certain baby Jesus about getting Alex Leatherwood. 

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jerseyblue

December 8th, 2016 at 4:44 PM ^

From Herbert:

“I want to play right away," he said when asked what he's looking for in a school.

“Miami says I can come in and play right away, Florida says that I can come in and play, and Michigan says that I have to come in and compete with [junior tackle Juwann Bushell-Beatty] and probably another tackle [current Michigan commit Joel Honigford].”

Sounds like it's on his mind so it's not crazy to say it could possibly sway him to those schools. 

 

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SirBentham

December 8th, 2016 at 4:03 PM ^

if we land Banks, Wilson and Filiaga and assume Stauber and Honigford stay put, someone is going to have to move inside.

we're gonna have some tall guards!!

I'm already assuming Hall is slotting to guard and possibly Herbert too (if he sticks)

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Mr Miggle

December 8th, 2016 at 4:03 PM ^

I'm not sure how hard we're recruiting him. There's an academic issue keeping him from taking visits. He could end up being left out if he doesn't qualify before our OL class is filled. 

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StephenRKass

December 8th, 2016 at 4:11 PM ^

I'm all for taking at least 8, if not 9 guys on the OL. Let 'em fight it out. It all starts in the trenches. The DL has done much better in the last few years. But the OL still isn't there, and that keeps us from winning at the highest level. I attribute a lot of failure to the OL play. I guess I would definitely take eight guys. And if Leatherwood or Slaton (only one of those two) want to commit, well, you take them as number nine. That would qualify as taking the "best player available."

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StephenRKass

December 8th, 2016 at 5:01 PM ^

You're asking the right question, and the hard question.

  1. Possibly one of the lower ranked OL decides to reopen his recruitment.
  2. Possibly one of the lower ranked players in the recruiting class reopens his recruitment.
  3. Possibly one of the existing players on the team doesn't get a 5th year.

I don't know the exact answer. But I do know that you always make room for a handful of players. That handful for me?

  • Najee Harris (irrelevant , because of early enrollment)
  • Alex Leatherwood
  • Donovan Peoples-Jones (irrelevant , because of early enrollment)
  • Aubrey Solomon
  • Isaiah Wilson
  • Jay Tufele
  • Cesar Ruiz
  • Tedarell Slaton
  • Darnay Holmes

I think an RB drops out if Harris signs. And a CB drops out if Holmes signs. If Leatherwood and Slaton both want to come, I think an OL drops out. If Solomon and Tufele both want to come, it is possible a DT drops out.

Currently, Brian does not have Harris, Leatherwood, Slaton, or Holmes coming to um. If Brian is right, this is all a moot point anyway.

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