LOLSparty: Algebra no longer required at MSU
In a move that should shock none of us, MSU has done away with requiring algebra to graduate. They claim that algebra is just too hard for their students, so they are implementing new "quantitative literacy" classes. And it's not like MSU's algebra course is rocket science. From one class's syllabus:
The topics of MTH 103 include linear & quadratic equations & inequalities, complex numbers, equations with radicals, absolute value, graphing linear and quadratic equations, transformations of graphs, polynomials, functions, polynomial and rational functions, exponentials, logarithms, and, most importantly, applications of these topics to solving problems outside of mathematics.
I do realize that math isn't for everyone (UM's calculus courses were the WORST), but come on. If you have a college degree, you're expected to able to perform simple algebra calculations. Luckily, one of MSU's leaders agrees with me:
But students aren’t likely to succeed in the new classes or in post-college life without some algebra fundamentals, said William Schmidt, director of the MSU College of Education's Center for the Study of Curriculum. “Students who come to college with real weaknesses on the formal math side may not benefit fully from the quantitative lessons,” he said. While every job doesn’t require a well-honed knowledge of advanced math, Schmidt said, learning the fundamentals is essential to problem-solving. “The logic of thinking algebraically builds ways of thinking about problems, allowing us to engage in the practical aspects of mathematics,” he said. “It’s pretty tough (to do so) without it.”
So maybe there is a small chance that eventually those quantitative literacy classes will end up resembling actual algebra. But until then, we just have to be content with "Go to school at MSU, learn to count to te-en!" being all too real.
That's a negative billion. See folks. this is why we need math!
(Well, looking at the negative points there, maybe not.)
But preach, Doc Brown. Preach.
Mathematics gives people a way of understanding and changing the world, and I never liked that so many folks dismiss its importance. And beyond practical applications, it shapes your world view and makes you a better critical thinker.
Stein's Calculus used to have this opening quote from historian Arnold Toynbee that nicely sums up some of mathematics' importance:
Looking back, I feel sure that I ought not to have been offered the choice [whether to study Greek or calculus] … calculus ought to have been compulsory for me. One ought, after all, to be initiated into the life of the world in which one is going to live. I was going to live in the Western World … and the calculus, like the full-rigged sailing ship, is … one of the characteristic expressions of the modern Western genius.
Logic is a missing piece as well. Two things occur at the same time so one caused the other, right? If I hear another talking head make another boneheaded comment with a complete absence of logic, I'll ..... sit down and eat another twinkie.
I don't know how I feel about this. I took algebra in middle school, but I was very good with math. Sure, the general population people don't really NEED algebra in life, but it's fucking algebra!!!
why is math pretty much the only subject people bitch about taking as a requirement. There are plenty of other completely useless requirements, but it always comes to how useless the math class was.
I would point out, math can be inexact. Its ultimately our repesentation of the laws of physics. Like, the proof that 0.999999... (infinite string of 9's) is actually mathematically identical to 1.0. That seems it should t be the case, but the math says it is. Its just a little quirk, but a sign that its not a perfect model for the real world.
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but algebra is 8th-grade math. Something 12-year-olds can do. In America. In other countries, they can do it at a much younger age. I just love how low the math bar is set in this (so-called technologically advanced) country.
Math!
Hunh!
Yeah.
What is it good for?
|0|
History called. It wants to talk with you about the notion that people only bitch about math...
I am aware of one recent train of thought that algebra should NOT be required in high school. Its actually the #1 course that caused kids to drop out of HS. And only 5% of people use algebra as part of their job (allegedly). The idea is to replace it with a kind of math we all need -- money, simple statistics, dates & time, weights & conversions, etc.
There is logic to this. I am very familiar with a HS junior who this year got all As and Bs except for a D+ in Alegbra II. Some people simply do not "get" algebra--its an indecypherable language. I was summa in AE at UM, so its a strange notion to me, but its the one subject that is just unapproachable to a lot of people.
That said, a college degree is something different. Staee gonna staee.
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Ummm doesn't some of the skills one needs in stats and conversions come from algebra?
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True but there are many high schools that have no type of personal finance classes or any other related to the use of money. Just using it in a story problem is not a solution. And yes, I understand algebra is about a way of thinking and that is valuable. Priorities though, priorities.
I support math in middle school and high school even though I sucked at it. But I think personal finance in high school should be required - especially before taking on $250k in debt to get your polka history degree. It's okay if that is what you want I would just like students to be informed as to what taking on $100, $200 or $500k will do to their future prospects - depending upon degree earning power of course.
If you really, REALLY taught money sense to high school seniors, ALOT of them probably would not make the disastrous financial decision to go to a school like Michigan, instead choosing the much wiser route of community college/directional university.
Hell, there'd be a lot of kids who would make the GENIUS decision to go to trade school instead of college in the first place.
Isn't algebra a high school course? I took that as like a sophomore
What grade did you take English?
When I was in Calc 2, my prof and I used to make up equations and see if the other could solve them during office hours . . . chemistry is cool too but in both math and chemistry, there are too many rules.
A+B always = C
(generally . . . depending on temp/pressure etc. figured I'd point that out before some chemist starts in on me ha ha)
In biology, A+B sometimes = C, unless you have a negative feedback loop, then C = A-B . . . or C = 0 . . . or in a positive feedback loop, A+B = C^2. Then there's enzymes that lower activation energy for a given reaction . . . but based on the active site and potential mutations the rate of the reaction can vary wildly . . .
But I digress. happy Thursday y'all.
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Math major here, but Zakaria hits the nail on the head here. I HATED the distribution requirements at U of M (humanities, really?) but I agree that making reasoned arguments, developing problem solving and critical reasoning skills, etc. are key to a college education - and a broad course of study is important to developing those skills. And mathematics is important in that broad course of study! So, although Zakaria's point is that we shouldn't only study the technical, his same argument holds in the reverse - some technical training is important too.
We shouldn't be throwing stones in a glass house though, plenty of folks at U of M and Harvard leave school with underdeveloped math skills - just like how I left with poor writing skills :)
It's not like you handed her the Hope Diamond and was like "figure it out, stupid.."
It starts younger than that. 13 year old girl helping her sis sell girl scout cookies at the grocery store. I hand her $10.00 on a $7.50 total. Her, her sis, and her mom couldn't calculate $2.50 was the change. Someone eventually fumbled for the calculator on their phone.
As a software dev, DISCREET MATH was the fucking worst. That isn't even math...
I'm not going to bother to figure out what the function does, but looks like an O(n) algorithm to me.
I LOVED discrete math. In fairness, Discrete Math made me realize I liked higher level math more than computer science.
Also, that's another reason to continue to require basic math. Sometimes students decide they like a field, perhaps math, rather late in their high school or even college careers.
I think my biggest issue with discrete math was my professor. He essentially just wrote what was in the book on the board. So I think he understood it as much as we all did.
I enjoyed the shit out of calc 3 because our professor was amazing.
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What the hell is AP Algebra? I muddled my way to a 3 on the AP Calc exam. Never heard of AP Algebra.
Calc classes at UM were a total bitch. Only time I'm ever failed an exam in my life.
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--Mork Di'Giornio
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When getting their general studies degree? Serious question. Don't know.
This is why you don't see many rocket scientists from MSU.
Do you need algebra in Packaging Science? Or just learn how to fold a box?
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How the hell does one get a decent score on the entrance exams without having taken algebra in school?
Good god, OP. This is a terrible thread.
With regard to the subject of said terrible thread, algebra is largely useless to most people in this world, so this isn't surprising.
EDIT: I have two college degrees. I was also a good student, especially with algebra. I didn't get all As, but was a B student on average. I earned my last degree in 2005. I can also say that if someone were to place a simple algebraic equation in front of me and asked me to solve it, I would not know where to start. As I stated, algebra is largely useless to most people. People should not be expected (as the OP stated) to be able to solve simple equations.
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