Nitro

February 6th, 2016 at 1:30 AM ^

God you're creepy. Fuck you're weird internet stalker warnings, you can't do shit. The answer's longer than a message board post. Here's a recent attempt from a mainstream publication that sort of gets it from an outside perspective: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/will-waves-be-kanye-wests-fi… I'm sure if you use your google, you can find many similar takes. It's not that uncommon of an opinion. You can probably get an approximate idea of how I see things, since it seems to matter enough to you to get real angry and threatening. But you need to try to chill, it's just the internet. Look away from the screen and - poof - it's not there to trouble you.

Joined: 04/27/2013

MGoPoints: 17041

Nitro

February 6th, 2016 at 1:41 AM ^

But really, this is what I said:"Now, wishing death upon the greatest musician of my generation, simply because he's outlandish? THAT is an opinion worth chastising!" Is that really this serious "statement of fact" that demands an immediate defense of a position on a message board? Or is someone who would demand such a thing a humorless clown? As far as changing the course of popular music, I explicitly said "my determination." You must have already had flown off the handle too much to notice. But again, you could probably use Google to find some answers on why someone might think that instead of getting all angry on the keyboard.

Joined: 04/27/2013

MGoPoints: 17041

Nitro

February 6th, 2016 at 2:38 AM ^

But, ultimately there's no right or wrong. It's just music. If you've spent time since the 70s witnessing the progression of various genres of music in the front row for the purpose of figuring out who the objective best is, you're missing out on the real experience of it all. And maybe that's why you're mad. Too much mind, not enough body and soul. Approaching everything completely from an academic perspective will make you unhappy. Free your mind, and your ass will follow.

Joined: 04/27/2013

MGoPoints: 17041

Nitro

February 6th, 2016 at 12:35 PM ^

You missed my point. I don't care what you like. I don't care about your "excellent" opinions or taste. They don't matter. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. Once you raised the racist "play real instruments" meme, it invalidated any concern I might have had for your opinion.

Also, fyi, posting a link with qualifying words is not the same as quoting. Not sure where you saw a quote.

Most of what I listen to these days I learn about from dustygroove.com.  I like it, they're knowledgeable without being overly opinionated and dramatic (lots of stuff from around the time when you were attending electronic music shows in the early 70s, and lots of instruments played, but there's also a lot of disco and other music from minorities, so you might not like it). But it's tough to keep up with, everyday they refresh the entire front page.  It's like a whole new bin. But I'm sure it's "crappy." But I'm not beholden to particular sources.  I'll peruse from there to thizzler.com (which you definitely wouldn't like).  Sometimes even overbearing dilletantish stuff like Pitchfork (which seems up your alley, although surprisingly even they would think you're an idiot: http://pitchfork.com/features/why-we-fight/8775-embarrassment-rock/).

Joined: 04/27/2013

MGoPoints: 17041

I'm Batman

February 6th, 2016 at 5:26 PM ^

For mentioning that Kanye doesn't play any real instruments? The Roots play real instruments. Stevie Wonder plays instruments. The Marsalis family, Wyclef Jean. What kind of idiot are you to imply that there aren't any legitimate black instrument playing musicians in this world? By the way I'm 40 years old. I wasn't attending disco shows in the 70's.

Joined: 08/18/2014

MGoPoints: 4334

Nitro

February 5th, 2016 at 9:34 PM ^

Pay attention to context, buddy.  I doubt "I'm Batman" was asserting that the greatest musician *of the past 30 years* is a blues or jazz musician.  I could be wrong, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that, given the type of people who assert that only those who "play their own instruments" qualify as real musicians, he's probably thinking along the likes of Bruce Springsteen.  I don't know of a single blues or jazz fan who thinks that way (particularly jazz, which has evolved to use a lot of the same tools as hip-hop).  Either way, it's fine for him to have his opinion.  But he has no business demanding that everyone else's opinions are invalid if they aren't limited in this same extent.  Good garsh, American college/indie rock fans are the most obnoxious fucks.

Joined: 04/27/2013

MGoPoints: 17041

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

February 6th, 2016 at 9:20 AM ^

I believe it was you who called I'm Batman's musical tastes "smug, rockist" and continued to make the assumption that anyone who didn't think Kanye was the GOAT was coming from, essentially, a racist position.  Victimhood doesn't suit you.

Joined: 07/02/2008

MGoPoints: 41586

Nitro

February 6th, 2016 at 11:38 AM ^

Nope, once again, you need to learn to read: "my opinions aren't dependent on decades old, smug rockist notions used to try to assert some intellectual superiority of traditionally white genres with domestic appeal over other genres that have a more global appeal." That said nothing about his tastes. That also said nothing about Kanye. What I said was racist was declaring that you're not a musician if you "don't play real instruments." It's a racist meme that's completely lacking in depth of thought. Had nothing to do with taste. How you could have possibly interpreted it as something else is baffling. Bit I'm sure you'll misread this too, so it doesn't matter. Reading doesn't suit you.

Joined: 04/27/2013

MGoPoints: 17041

The Mad Hatter

February 6th, 2016 at 1:08 PM ^

But I'm going to anyway. By definition, someone that is unable to play a musical instrument is not a musician. They may be an arranger, a producer, a mixer, or a DJ, but they're not a musician. That you somehow think that's racist is a pretty clear indication that you're the one with race issues. Also Kanye sucks.

Joined: 02/17/2015

MGoPoints: 112109

Yeoman

February 6th, 2016 at 12:36 PM ^

I think the difference isn't so much the times they played in as the on-field performance. Imagine Manziel winning a Super Bowl--how celebrated would he be? What would we think of Joe Namath today if he'd only won two NFL games in his career?

Joined: 06/08/2011

MGoPoints: 21390

m_go_T

February 5th, 2016 at 9:34 PM ^

I have lost more than a few friends to addiction, including my brother in law last week. So I am well versed in addiction and the horrible disease that it is. That doesn't mean there are people that arent legitimate assholes in this world. Manziel is one of them. This, if I had to choose I'd rather see the homeless person on my street overcome addiction and Manziel flush out of the league than see those guys continue to suffer and see Johny win the super bowl. Sorry my opinion is not pc, but i just don't root for abusive assholes.

Joined: 11/04/2010

MGoPoints: 5453

ijohnb

February 5th, 2016 at 3:29 PM ^

what you are saying and I hear you, but there is a difference between an alcoholic and a guy who drinks too much and too often to play in the NFL effectively.  I don't think that Manziel is pounding straight Vodka after retrieving it from his hiding spot, I think that he is partying too much and needs to chill the F out.  To me, at this point, rehab may just be a facade to deflect from the fact that the guy is just acting a fool.

Joined: 09/21/2009

MGoPoints: 69986

Stay.Classy.An…

February 5th, 2016 at 3:34 PM ^

a guy who drinks "too much and too often" is quite possibly an alcoholic. He doesn't have to be "getting his Goose on" everyday during or after practice to be an alcoholic. Functioning alcoholics are quite capable people in the workplace and at home, which is the stage I would predict Manziel to be in right now. Although, on the flip side, his sneaking off to Vegas and putting his career and future at risk to party (aka drinking himself silly), might suggest that he is now past "functioning alcoholism" and into something even more scary. It would be nice if he could just "chill out", I think he is a little past that point now. 

Joined: 11/27/2012

MGoPoints: 19972

ijohnb

February 5th, 2016 at 3:40 PM ^

disagree.  He is 23 years old.  Alcoholism often takes decades to really manifest completely.  If I had to guess, Manziel is still tying one on twice a week and hitting up the diner in the morning for the hangover fix after some wake and bake.  Certainly not ideal but I don't think you need to call A&E for the intervention quite yet.  I am not saying he is not heading where you are suggesting, but I don't think he is there yet.

Joined: 09/21/2009

MGoPoints: 69986

ijohnb

February 5th, 2016 at 3:34 PM ^

if a person is a jerk you will certainly find that out when they are intoxicated, but true alcoholics do not have a "core personality" anymore.  They don't have any personality.  They cannot even feel happiness or sadness anymore as their brain is literally no longer functioning remotely correctly. I don't think that Manziel is that kind of drunk but that is a different story.  If you have seen true alcoholism (and I am not saying you haven't) it is not at all like Johnny-boy playing beer pong and jivin in Vegas.

Joined: 09/21/2009

MGoPoints: 69986

The Mad Hatter

February 5th, 2016 at 3:39 PM ^

And I've known exactly one person like that in my 38 years on this planet.  There is no way that anyone in the NFL is an alcoholic by that standard, they wouldn't be able to do their job.

Personally, and I'll take the negs, but I think we've widened the definitions of "alcoholic" and "drug addict" too far.  

Joined: 02/17/2015

MGoPoints: 112109

ijohnb

February 5th, 2016 at 3:42 PM ^

have for athletes, no question.  They get to use the rehab hall pass a couple of times for things that may or may not have anything to do with addiction.  I am certainly not saying there are not athlete addicts, but I tend to agree with what you are saying at least with regard to professional athletes.

Joined: 09/21/2009

MGoPoints: 69986

MGoUP

February 5th, 2016 at 3:15 PM ^

He obviously has a major addiction and isn't in a place where he wants help.  Already has left two treatment centers this week alone.  Addiction is a terrible thing.

Joined: 01/21/2016

MGoPoints: 1424

MaizeAndBlueWahoo

February 5th, 2016 at 7:36 PM ^

I don't feel even a tiny bit bad for him.  He made his choices and is still making them.  Whatever issues he has, they're his own doing.  He doesn't deserve a football career or any of the money or trappings that go with it, not when there are so many people willing to keep their nose clean (literally) and work a hell of a lot harder for it.

I find myself being unable to care whether he bounces back from rock bottom, or continues to dig.  If he makes the decision to bounce back, then I'd hope for him to do so.  But he's already, more than once, declared himself ready to straighten up, and played a bunch of people for fools.  None of his situation is anyone else's fault.

Joined: 07/02/2008

MGoPoints: 41586

Stay.Classy.An…

February 5th, 2016 at 3:15 PM ^

about Johnny Manziel, but the young man has issues. From what I have read, it seems like his main issue is alcohol and possibly depression and/or anxiety. Some people will say he is a "spoiled oil money brat who is getting what he deserves". I just can't help but feel for the guy, spoiled or not, we are all people who deal with issues and his seem to have overtaken his life. For his dad to be so concerned about Johnny that he tried to have him admitted twice to different facilities over the past week or so, shows me that he is in serious trouble. Anybody that is struggling with alcoholism, doesn't want to be an alcoholic (even if they claim otherwise). Unfortunately, it's the only way they know how to cope with whatever is going on or has gone on in their lives. Hopefully he can get into treatment and move on towards a more fulfilling existence. Forget the NFL, just get your life back man.

Joined: 11/27/2012

MGoPoints: 19972

WestQuad

February 5th, 2016 at 3:32 PM ^

I haven't had to deal with real addiction for myself or many of my friends.  Though one old friend ended two marriages over it and one went to jail.   But,  you have to figure that it is an awful thing considering how much addicts throw away.   I think alcohol and even drugs can  be used responsibly, but you never know if you're the one genetically or mentally pre-disposed to being an addict.  Scary. 

Joined: 07/22/2011

MGoPoints: 31169

Erik_in_Dayton

February 5th, 2016 at 3:53 PM ^

You're taking away a great deal of a person's autonomy, so the standard for appointing a guardian is very high. The person has to be unable to even direct the maintenance of his/her affairs. There is also the problem of the guy's ability to simply leave any facility you put him in. Someone with severe dementia, for example, is relatively easy to confine. But Manziel is capable of calling a cab and going to a bar. There's no good way to stop that. Note: this post is not legal advice. I am a lemur chained to a computer.

Joined: 12/03/2008

MGoPoints: 59152

HimJarbaugh

February 5th, 2016 at 3:46 PM ^

Having had issues with substance abuse in the past, I agree to some extent. The substance is usually a crutch for some other issue.

HOWEVER, there is a point where denial and hubris cross a line from "I hope they get better" to "I just hope they don't harm anyone else." Manziel is not much different from a lot of other people who have to work through these issues and so long as he remains arrogant and unwilling to commit to change, he is not a victim of addiction. He is just a guy throwing it all away. Addiction is not complete helplessness.

Joined: 12/23/2014

MGoPoints: 4292

softshoes

February 5th, 2016 at 3:19 PM ^

I hope they can sock some of his money away for him in case he gets his shit together. Or they can spend it if he doesn't. Better than him dropping it down the hole that is Vegas.

This is really an iffy time for him. He no longer has any sense of structure, or reason to try and behave, now that the NFL cut him loose. 

Joined: 09/09/2010

MGoPoints: 11997

bronxblue

February 5th, 2016 at 3:19 PM ^

It really is sad.  At this point, we're talking about a kid with clear drug and alcohol issues and everyone seems to sorta washing their hands of him because he can't make them money anymore.  I hope he gets the help he needs.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171752