Impact of Tolbert at SC coach over one month
February 28th, 2015 at 4:09 PM ^
Vitamin R. Roids. Bout time we got serious.
February 28th, 2015 at 4:14 PM ^
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February 28th, 2015 at 4:49 PM ^
Here is a recent before and after of Alex Malzone
February 28th, 2015 at 5:12 PM ^
February 28th, 2015 at 5:46 PM ^
Looks like he got with the program on khaki pants too.
Just keep an eye out for Hydra Agents looking to pick off our S&C coaches....
February 28th, 2015 at 4:11 PM ^
February 28th, 2015 at 4:12 PM ^
People on the internet overrate the impact of S&C coaches a lot.
February 28th, 2015 at 4:20 PM ^
So are you discrediting S&C coaches?
February 28th, 2015 at 4:25 PM ^
No, their job is very important. But I don't think we would see a difference in the team whether our coach was Barwis, Wellman, or Tolbert.
February 28th, 2015 at 4:36 PM ^
This is absurd. Might as well have just hired Garfield the cat then. S&C coaches have vastly different philosophies and approaches. You're essentially saying that they have no impact as individuals, and a potato could get the job done the same.
February 28th, 2015 at 4:43 PM ^
February 28th, 2015 at 4:47 PM ^
No he's saying that in 1 month, there would not be much of a difference other than their personalities/attitudes when it comes to working out/conditioning assuming all three are at least competent at their jobs when it comes to the basics in the beginning of their respective plans.
February 28th, 2015 at 5:15 PM ^
Ok, let me make a comparison. I am a teacher, and I'd like to think a good one. The guy in the classroom next to me stinks. The state deemed us both comptetent, but don't you think we'll see different results when the test scores come out?
*I am not a fan of "the tests"
February 28th, 2015 at 5:30 PM ^
You see test results within the span of a month b/c studying is not equatable to working out. One can study 2 hours a day for said test or cram 8 hours a day for 2 weeks and still get the same scores.
You can't cram working out to 1 month and expect results of 8 months. It doesn't work that way regardless of who the SC trainer is.
You don't see groundbreaking results in only 1 month. Everyone who works out knows this.
February 28th, 2015 at 7:01 PM ^
No, I'm estimating that 1 month is not a good indicator of anything. Obviously it depends on types of workouts/goals you are going after. This is football.
If we're purely basing our results on being able to lift shit w/ full rom, then yeah sure you could make some reasonable gains. Does it translate to the football field? Not necessarily or else all the benchpressers and weight monsters in the combines would dominate the NFL.
I don't believe that S&C was the main issue with Hoke's football teams. If you kept Wellman and had a competent coach who could teach proper techniques etc during practice, we would be a lot better vs. Hoke and ... say Tolbert or Barwis.
This analysis of how important S&C is coming from the perception that our team is "slower" than everyone else. I think it is misplaced/overblown.
February 28th, 2015 at 9:57 PM ^
February 28th, 2015 at 7:57 PM ^
Of course there could be someone employed who is bad, but how is someone who doesn't know about weightlifting going to get a job at a major college program? Yeah, sure if the team just jumped rope 5 minutes a day, no one would make games. Therefore, what? Wellman is a terrible S&C coach? Wellman was doing exactly the thing you're talking about with Tolbert.
We've had this dumb debate with every new S&C coach. The new guy is a weightlifting God/genius (one isn't enough), and the old guy didn't know anything. That has happened with Barwis and Wellman and now with Tolbert.
Again, it's not that having a good S&C coach isn't important, it's that anyone at this level is going to be good. Also, there's no real secret to weightlifting. Yes, there are a lot of things you can tweak and optimize and all that, but if you've got a an S&C coach worth a damn, he's going to have 98% of what you need. Football changes because of philosophy and rules and a bunch of other stuff, so having a coach who hasn't fallen behind in the game is important, but our bodies are still the same. It's not like some coach is going to come in and do, I don't know, pyramid training, and all of a sudden the team is twice as strong and fast as any other in the nation.
Whatever difference there is between S&C coaches is made totally insignificant in how the players are taught the actual game, recruiting, time management in games, etc.
February 28th, 2015 at 11:17 PM ^
"Of course some S&C coaches are significantly better than others." Given what evidence? What S&C coach can you point to making a material difference over another?
I talked about it in my post. Running an entire football program is a massive endeavor with a lot of things that can go wrong. A lot of that also involves staying up on the latest trends, being a master tactician, being a great recruiter, just plain luck, etc. Yes, fine details may make a small difference, but S&C isn't nearly as complex. Plenty of average dudes get strong and fast just following a decent routine on a weightlifting website. Probably the most useful aspect of an S&C coach isn't actually having some great wealth of knowledge but making an exercise and diet plan that makes it easy for players to stick to it and to make sure they follow through with it. A lot of people want to think there's some magic formula that's some shortcut to getting big in the gym, and there's not.
"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy ass weights." - Ronnie Coleman
February 28th, 2015 at 9:09 PM ^
February 28th, 2015 at 10:09 PM ^
That hypertrophy bit is totally irrelevant though. That's talking about beginners. Guys a couple years into college football programs are definitely not beginners. Even coming out of high school they aren't total beginners.
February 28th, 2015 at 6:03 PM ^
What if neither of you stink?
Now do you get it?
February 28th, 2015 at 7:58 PM ^
That was basically my post in one sentence lol.
February 28th, 2015 at 4:47 PM ^
No what he's saying is the following:
1. All S&C coaches have some measure of competence or they wouldn't have been hired in the first place.
2. That people on the internet fawn over whoever the current coach is claiming that NOW we've got the guy who will make all the difference and demonstrate real, tangible results.
3. That the impact of the indivudal coach is vastly overrated. That the players themselves and their willingness to put in work makes the difference (for the most part) in performance.
4. That the overall mpact of S&C coaches in general is greatly overrated
5. That if we did hire Garfield the Cat we'd be reading reports about how impactful GTC's workout's are and the amazing, increadible changes he's making in the team's conditioning and that a bunch of people here would agree.
February 28th, 2015 at 4:49 PM ^
Yup, you explained it better than I could've.
February 28th, 2015 at 5:04 PM ^
Same goes for a potato?
February 28th, 2015 at 5:14 PM ^
If it's our current S&C potato then it will obviously be the most amazing, physically transforming potato EVER. They players will remark how this potato "gets it" and his workouts have produced absolutely stunning results that will surely translate into fourth quarter dominance and win and win this fall. You will see before and after pictures demonstrating visually the positive impact this potato brings to the S&C table.
If it was the previous S&C potato then no. That idiot knew nothing (obviously) and is now probably just french fries.
February 28th, 2015 at 5:35 PM ^
February 28th, 2015 at 6:58 PM ^
February 28th, 2015 at 5:25 PM ^
February 28th, 2015 at 5:57 PM ^
I think Odie would make a better S&C coach. He's in better condition.
February 28th, 2015 at 6:39 PM ^
February 28th, 2015 at 9:46 PM ^
MGrowOld, Gulogulo37, dcallen39 and I all gave proper respectful rebuttles to your assertions of us being ignorant of strength and conditioning. I'm sorry you can't handle it when the going gets tough.
MGoBlog has various points of view disagreeing with everything. Just make sure you can back it up b/c this board isn't made up of slouches. I'm sorry for your hissy fit.
Honestly, if that means just continue typing then I see what you mean. On the other hand, one might connote you posted some research to uphold your argument and bolster your position using data. Nope.
A bulleted recap of expressed ideas isn't exactly the best example of backing it up which any slouch could do. TBH.
However, he is in the postion of going up against the over zealous bartener w/a wee bit of power and an eye for your girlfriend as he cuts you off. Arguing will only make it look worse.
The point you are apparently unable to grasp is that NOBODY here is saying S&C coaches are irrelevant or interchangeable. What we are saying is that the on-field results have a slight degree of variance between the very best S&C coach and the very worst. And that no matter who we have in charge - there is universal acclaim that the current guy is WAY better than whoever he replaced and the results are just amazing.
Fall in line, wave poms for certain people and be fawned over for every innocuous post. Fail to fall in line...
So are you actually an angry teenage girl, or do you just write like one?
February 28th, 2015 at 4:42 PM ^
February 28th, 2015 at 4:52 PM ^
You only see it now because of instagram and such. Do you think any S&C Coach would be like "nah Caris you good looking like a string bean" there is going to be an obvious transformation with the players because they were in high school eating junk food not so long ago.
February 28th, 2015 at 5:05 PM ^
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February 28th, 2015 at 5:59 PM ^
players. It's really noticeable in some cases, but those are players new to a college S&C program. It's seems like the gains are biggest between their freshman and sophomore years.
February 28th, 2015 at 8:37 PM ^
February 28th, 2015 at 7:21 PM ^
Barwis had a bunch of underclassmen performing as well as Wellman's upperclassmen. Part was coaching, but the style of S&C makes a huge difference.
February 28th, 2015 at 6:38 PM ^
Seemslike every new staff we get the strength coach is the absolute best ever, I have never heard a team cite the strength coach for a victory. From Barwis to Tolbert is a good sample size. Everyone wanted Hoke to keep Barwis beause players loved himand NFL guyscame back to train with him. Then Jabrill and Derrick Green posted pictures of a transformed bodies after 2 weeks or something and Wellman was the greatest ever. Now the team apparently looks svelte but strong as well, Personally I don't think you can get the job at top tier program without being good at your job, but really what can you do in a month to D-1 athletes that should be in shape already. Jeez it's slow round here.
I pick things up, I put them down.
February 28th, 2015 at 4:37 PM ^
"For as maligned as Gittleson was for the mythical "eat a pizza every night to keep your weight up" dietary advice he shelled out to the OL allegedly, his linemen never got pushed around like some of RR's guys did."
*cough*
But look how quickly they got to the second level.
Those two linebackers are fucked.
Did he say that?
No.
...see I can be a dick and ask questions I already know the answer to as well. Difference is, I don't feel important because of it.
Nothing about that post was discrediting S&C coaches. If I say Russell Westbrook is playing like the best player in the world right now, that doesn't mean LeBron James sucks, it doesn't even mean he's not the best player in the world.
But I suppose you can twist anything if you want to.