OT: Penn State's vacated wins returned
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/12179571/joe-paterno-111-wins-were-vacated-restored
I don't know about the forum but I'm absolutely disgusted by this. Pedophile U created a culture of abuse over many years and their "punishment" has hardly been just that. There's been zero accountability at that institution for the top down failures of leadership in the president's office, the athletic department, and the surrounding community.
You just know students will be celebrating this tonite in State College. I'm sick and tired of that fan base's worship of JoePa and their claims that it wasn't his fault.
My heart aches for the victims who got bullshit justice in the first place -- bowl bans and vacated wins? That were lifted early?
Penn State should have got the death penalty!
January 16th, 2015 at 2:04 PM ^
Jerry can take care of that with Joe.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:03 PM ^
Suggest doing yourself a favor and not reading the comments section in the ESPN story. The level of delusion and denial by the Penn. St. fans is disgusting.
It shifts from you can't prove Paterno knew about this to Paterno did report Sandusky, thus the '98 investigation.
Just disgusting.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:08 PM ^
Seriously. Penn State can go fuck themselves as well as the NCAA.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
January 16th, 2015 at 2:06 PM ^
January 16th, 2015 at 2:10 PM ^
It's unfortunate. I've heard from many about how it's a legal issue and not a football program issue, except that the football program clearly benefitted from the cover up and I give it about a 0% chance that JoePa was as innocent as they say. Sad that the NCAA caved to Penn State.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:25 PM ^
Please. This was a man who had too much power. So much power that he once threw his bosses out of his house when they suggested he should probably retire. His image and his school's image were more important to him than the victims of Sandusky. They do NOT deserve to have those wins reinstated.
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
January 16th, 2015 at 2:14 PM ^
that the NCAA is just doing this so they can revoke the wins again later.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:22 PM ^
"Use the prestige of an athletic program to cover up illegal activities all you want, but if you even smell like anything approaching the boundaries of amateurism, we'll fuck you up. Sound good?"
-NCAA
January 16th, 2015 at 2:33 PM ^
Or our stretching?
I am just disgusted with the NCAA. PSU's fan reaction right now is disgusting.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:06 PM ^
Yes, you're stretching.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:41 PM ^
The anti-Paterno and anti-Penn State vitriole here is impressive and understandable. But those spitting on Paterno's grave might wish to look at things from a more balanced perspective. Here's an interesting and very factual article by Jay Paterno:
http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/daily-take/201408/joe-paterno-jay-freeh…
The facts regarding Paterno are more than a little murky.
I think that in cases like this there is a desire to spread the blame around and a lot of innocent people are hurt or smeared.
I, for one, find the lynch mob mentality to be troubling.
I applaud the efforts being made to prevent such horrible crimes from happening again or being covered up. I think it's important to focus on the positive and stop vilifying an entire university or football program for the crimes of one man and the negligence of a few.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:46 PM ^
Hee, the more balanced perspective of Jay Paterno. Thanks for that laugh.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:41 PM ^
Here are some good quotes from the article:
"Child sexual abuse is the witch trial topic of our time". So I guess like witches in Salem that did not exist, child sexual abuse doesn't exist. OK, JayPa.
"Joepa was made aware that Sicko Sandusky was in the shower with a young boy". He was not aware of anal sex going on. So I guess he's off the hook? It's compeletely normal? Better not tell anyone. Old guys shower all the time with boys.
Come on, Remdog. Maybe it's you, and not the rest of this board, who doesn't get it?
January 16th, 2015 at 4:15 PM ^
I am one of the few here (maybe the only one) who does "get it."
Perhaps you should read up on all the child abuse witch trials that have occurred in recent years and which have destroyed many innocent people, people probably much like you and your loved ones.
The hatemongers here are appalling and a disgrace to Michigan fans.
So come on, Mabel, you need to educate yourself and open your mind just a little.
January 16th, 2015 at 5:59 PM ^
So, so sad.
January 16th, 2015 at 9:33 PM ^
Putting aside using Jay Paterno as your primary source, you somehow seem far too invested in minimizing the rape part. I didn't realize that there was any dispute that Sandusky is guilty. Yet you clearly suggest that this may be one of those "child abuse witch trial(s)" referred to by Jay Paterno. So because there have been false allegations in a very few number of sex abuse cases in the past, you opine that all of them are suspect. I am sure Bill Cosby still counts you among his defenders.
January 17th, 2015 at 2:15 PM ^
"you seem too far invested in minimizing the rape part. I didn't realize that there was any dispute that Sandusky was guilty. Yet you clearly suggest that this may be one of those "child abuse witch trials" referred to by Jay Paterno."
Seriously, What the Fuck???
You are a fucking idiot. I said absoluting fucking nothing that would "minimize the rape part" or "dispute that Sandusky was guilty."
You are an immoral dirtbag and a poor excuse for a human being to cast baseless aspersions like these.
I only brought up the "child abuse witch trials" since Jay Paterno referenced these in his article and rightfully so since they capture the hysteria associated with child abuse allegations, hysteria which leads to horrible atrocities such as incarcerating an entire innocent family for decades.
In this case, hysteria is smearing many innocent bystanders.
But you are a completey immoral fucking idiot so I am obviously wasting my time commenting further.
And the response to my more balanced perspective on this issue is sad, completely fucking sad. No single individual here has shown an ounce of intelligence, common sense or humanity towards innocent bystanders harmed by this affair.
I sincerely hope the idiocy and unbridled hate on display here is not typical of Michigan fans. If so, I am ashamed to be a Michigan fan.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:51 PM ^
Using Jay Paterno as the source to proclaim Joe Paterno's innocence is like taking Bernie Madoff's son saying Bernie's actions were "overblown" at face value.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:49 PM ^
If not I am not interested in a biased view from his son. I'll click on that right after I read the Freep.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:05 PM ^
The whole Penn State communiuty enables each other.
Go look at the comments on the ESPN section right now -- those people actually feel vindicated!
January 16th, 2015 at 4:05 PM ^
The whole Penn State communiuty enables each other.
Go look at the comments on the ESPN section right now -- those people actually feel vindicated!
January 16th, 2015 at 2:52 PM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
January 16th, 2015 at 3:01 PM ^
on those who choose to remain ignorant and refuse to read the article I posted. It's easier and more enjoyable to ignorantly spew hate, I guess.
Think about the lesson your Dad taught you again, "ignorance is never an excuse" and read the damn article.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:17 PM ^
He claims his father broke no laws which may be true but that doesn't excuse him for not taking action to protect those kids. There were allegations swirling around there and you can't tell me he didn't know. His son said he didn't know there was an anal rape but he was told there was inappropriate things going on. He chose to cover it up.
I feel for the kid and can understand not wanting to think your father would do these things but they happened.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:59 PM ^
doesn't mean you didn't do something that was morally reprehensible.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:09 PM ^
your reading of the article. You're now more informed than the vast majority of people who posted on this thread. On the other hand, I don't think you read it with a fully open mind. You state that "he chose to cover it up." How is reporting the incident to appropriate administrators "covering it up?"
Anyway, kudos for engaging in a respectful an intelligent discussion. You are the rarity here it seems.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:45 PM ^
This was hashed, mashed, rehashed and trashed, ad nauseum, on this very internet site as the scandal broke and wound its way toward conclusion. So...
MANY MGoUsers, myself included, are more than familiar enough with the "facts" as stated by Mike McCreary, Joe Paterno, Jay Paterno, Scott Paterno, Jerry Sandusky, Victims 1-8, various members of the PSU administration and Board of Governors, media, insiders, hangers on, random internet dudes, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. We don't need to read it again to placate your need to make sure we're "informed." We are (or at least most of us).
January 16th, 2015 at 6:09 PM ^
January 17th, 2015 at 2:42 PM ^
is not "trolling or stupidity." Stupidity is on rampant display on this thread however.
You do make some good arguments regarding Paterno's actions or inactions. But honestly, neither you nor I know what McQueary saw or what he told Paterno he saw or might have seen. And we don't know what Paterno heard or thought he heard. And we don't know how he processed this information. Good god, the man was 74 at the time. Unlike you, I have had the opportunity to medically evaluate many people in their 70's and many are suffering various stages of dementia by that time. And he did pass on the report to the people at PSU whose fucking job it is to file such reports with law enforcement and investigate further. And McQueary was free to file a report with the police as well.
So destroying his reputation might be a bit harsh. But hey, who cares about the actual facts anyway when we can engage in a hatefest?
The unfocused hatred here towards Penn State and those affiliated with Penn State is disturbing. It is the kind of hatred that causes great harm. It's just disgusting.
But I guess I should step out of the way of the angry mob of idiots here. Fortunately, in this case, there is little harm they can do. In other cases, who knows?
And by the way, I have no affilation with PSU and no personal investment in the matter. I'm just trying to argue for some simple human decency.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:35 PM ^
From Jay Paterno (my emphasis):
These are the facts. Joe Paterno was made aware that Jerry Sandusky was in the shower with a young boy a day after a witness saw it. What that witness told him is subject to interpretation, but we do know that the witness never told him that he had seen a boy being raped. It was the first and only time Joe Paterno had ever been told by a witness that Jerry had been in the showers with a young boy.
[paragraphs omitted between these two]In 2001 Sandusky no longer worked for Joe Paterno, and access to the facility had been granted to Sandusky by the administration and signed off by provost Rod Erickson (who would ascend to the presidency in the first days of the scandal). Paterno, not sure what he could do in this situation, reported it to his superiors as required by law and by university policy.
Mike McQueary's testimony (emphasis mine):
"I went to his house and sat at his kitchen table and told him I saw Jerry with a young boy in the shower. That it was way over the lines and extremely sexual in nature," McQueary testified. "The rough positioning I described but not in much detail."
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/mcqueary_says_he_sat…
Jay Paterno's first bolded quote is deeply misleading and also not very helpful even on its face. He admits Joe knew Sandusky was in the shower with a boy, and he omits the fact that, while the word "rape" wasn't used, McQueary said it was "extremely sexual."
The second bolded quote is laughable. Joe Paterno was a man who sometimes got out of his car and directed traffic in Happy Valley. He once kicked his bossses out of his house. And now he doesn't know what to do?!
January 16th, 2015 at 8:24 PM ^
put the statue back up, but this time have Joe Pa's head up his own ass.
What a disgusting, vile man.
The whole thing is vile.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:03 PM ^
You're characterizing the outrage of enabling, facilitating, looking the other way at an established pattern of abuse as "lynch mob mentality"? Wow. Just wow! 1. I hope you don't have kids. 2. Paterno knew. 3. Just because Paterno wasn't the president, the AD, or the chief of security doesn't excuse him from acting LIKE A DECENT HUMAN BEING and doing something about it (#2). 4. It happening once, just EVEN ONCE, as Jay claims, is one time too many (#1). And just to be clear... The person who pisses me off about this the most is not Paterno. It's Mike McQueary. How the hell does one not see that act happening and go in there and break it up? If I walked in that shower, I would have beaten the crap out of Sandusky.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:44 PM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
January 16th, 2015 at 2:47 PM ^
At this rate JoePa is going to rise from the grave and take over coaching duties.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:54 PM ^
January 16th, 2015 at 2:55 PM ^
So, if I read this correctly, the object lesson that Penn State is being taught here by the NCAA is that there was in fact no real permanent object lesson - by their figuring - to be gleaned from the facilitation of a child molester by the PSU athletic department. If nothing else, as someone mentioned, no one will ever look to Penn State for advice on running a department again, but the fact that a situation has been created where that program can even feign some form of vindication is very, very troubling and unfair to the people whose lives were damaged irreparably because no one could or would do the right thing.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:14 PM ^
Will be that every member institution will fight every potential "investigation" tooth and nail, up to and including telling the NCAA to GTFO when they want to open an inquiry. Why not? The NCAA is quite evidently a corrupt, toothless, paper tiger.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:57 PM ^
I never understood vacating wins - it never changed anything, and it felt like this petty, needless punishment by the NCAA. What happened at PSU was horrendous, but treating wins and losses like they mattered to the victims was meaningless and just highlighted how limited/weak the NCAA was in actually punishing member institutions for transgressions that didn't directly occur on the field of play. That's the difference between these sanctions and the Fab Five era - those were current athletes receiving improper benefits from a booster; while what Sandusky did was immensely more disgusting, it is harder to tie it to improper behavior on the field, which is where the NCAA seems to get caught up on.
I don't care about the wins counting or not. This was a criminal matter that was handled by the courts (itself a weird set of issues), and the NCAA did what it could, I guess, to punish a member institition. But taking away wins always felt irrelevant.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:33 PM ^
I don't disagree with you about irrelevance of vacating wins, except that it seemed intended to spit on JoePa's legacy, which whatever. The issue I have is that by now un-vacating the wins, the NCAA is giving all of the PSU fans and JoePa apologists a chance to say, "See, we were right. Paterno IS the saint we've always believed him to be."
Much better to have never taken the wins at all than to restore them now and give PSU a "victory" against the fools who refused to see that JoePa was the real victim.
January 16th, 2015 at 7:07 PM ^
Yeah, that was my issue when it first happened. I thought punish the staff and administration, but it didn't seem relevant to take away wins.
I do think that most logical fans won't read it is some apology or cleansing of Joe Paterno, but for the idiots of course they'll respond that way. But every fanbase has those types.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:58 PM ^
punish the win at all cost mentality that led Paterno to cover it up. You can see how it upset the fan base so it was effective in that regard. Unfortunately I don't think it changed the culture. It's still win at all costs.
January 16th, 2015 at 7:11 PM ^
Yes and no. I don't think most fans really cared about the vacated wins because they didn't have any connection to them; they were historical footnotes and not something connected to the program on an every-day basis. It's not like they held the most wins record or something, so it wasn't even that.
Honestly, it was a horrible crime, but it was a crime that was beyond the scope of the NCAA's authority and reach in many ways. I'm not sure what the NCAA could have really done, but taking away the wins always felt really cheap.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:57 PM ^
I seriously hate PSU more than OSU. They should have been kicked out of the Big Ten. Money be damned.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:58 PM ^
I seriously hate PSU more than OSU. They should have been kicked out of the Big Ten. Money be damned.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:00 PM ^
+1
I do to!
January 16th, 2015 at 3:43 PM ^
Thats the real question...
January 16th, 2015 at 3:54 PM ^
Is that where all numbers that get in trouble go?
January 16th, 2015 at 3:54 PM ^
They will re-resurrect the statue next and then put Joe Pa in th e CFB hall of fame.
Joe Pa facilitated Sandusky. He should be banned from the hall like Pete Rose. What he did makes Pete Rose look like a saint.
January 16th, 2015 at 10:32 PM ^
as if Joe Pa gets all those wins without Sandusky, and as if his precious program doesn't carry on - you know, unmolested - if the Sandusky scandal had come out sooner.
It's all tied together. The NCAA is dead.
And that diseased cult in Happy Valley, well, it's like nothing ever happened.