Make the case for retaining Hoke
We've got a lot of Lawyers on the board, and while there is a huge amount of group-think on the board and most poeple assume Hoke is gone there is chatter that if he wins out he could keep his job. I think that's ridiculously short-sighted (as do most of you probably).
So - be devil's advocate. How can someone (anyone!) justify retaining Hoke after that 60 minutes of Yakety Sax followed by a team with 4 new OL starters, a freshman QB and RB putting up more points in East Lansing than Hoke's teams have scored against MSU during his tenure? Why is OSU so much better with their brand new pieces? Is it anything but coaching?
November 10th, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^
November 10th, 2014 at 3:21 PM ^
Well at least the slutty girlfriend scores more than our offense.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:39 AM ^
November 10th, 2014 at 11:50 AM ^
November 10th, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^
Dantonio or any of the Sparty faithful except you're apology's!
November 10th, 2014 at 11:39 AM ^
did you see what tosu did to our little brother? Barrett has developed into a fine QB...he can't run like Braxton but he is a supeior thrower. We are going to get smoked in Columbus.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:40 AM ^
Next year practice wins will count as bowl eligible wins?
November 10th, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^
1. Coach Hoke has shown what he can do with seasoned talent (see 2011).
2. He inherited a giant gap in the OL from Coach Rod, which leaves them fairly young at that position even now.
3. The defense is fairly good, and players have developed on that side of the ball.
4. He's graduated all of his players (I believe), and seemingly brought in good citizens. And everyone seems to agree that he cares a lot for his players.
5. His teams have played well against OSU.
6. He's been reasonably flexible with regard to the offense, adapting to Denard somewhat and then brining in Nuss.
7. He's been a great recruiter.
That's the best I've got, and it's pretty weak.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^
November 10th, 2014 at 11:54 AM ^
The saddest part of your defense is in number 6, "adapting to Denard." I realize it's a different style of play but the fact that someone has to "adapt" to having one of the most electrifying players in college football is absurd. To me, this is the most damning aspect of Hoke's tenure: that there was a time when it seemed reasonable to look forward to having a quarterback other than Denard Robinson.
November 10th, 2014 at 3:36 PM ^
November 10th, 2014 at 1:42 PM ^
staff change out as a reason to believe things could get better.
November 10th, 2014 at 5:15 PM ^
8. Managed to keep the get the team to continue playing hard, even after it was apparent that the season was going into the toilet.
That, and the 7 things you listed might actually make a compelling case -- if you were talking to anyone that hasn't had the displeasure of watching a Michigan football game this seaon.
The only way Hoke should be allowed to return is if the AD completely strikes out on the first 7-8 head coaching options. If that happened, it would make more sense to bite the bullet and leave Hoke in place for another year and hope a better coach becomes available next year. As painful as that would be, it would make a lot more sense than than rolling the dice with a mediocre replacement that you would be stuck with for at least 3 more years.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:41 AM ^
This team scored 10 against Northwestern.
Iowa scored 48.
Iowa lost 51-14 on Saturday to Minnesota.
They will not win out and will be lucky to score a TD on 11/29.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:55 AM ^
We're aware that we suck. This thread is for trying to make a case FOR retaining Hoke.
November 10th, 2014 at 12:24 PM ^
Err..........well only statistics........on Saturday. What does it tell us? Maybe Minnesota has a decent defense? Did that defense make Shane look so bad?
BTW, worst call of the year was the "no targeting" on the Shane Morris hit.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
If we get rid of him, the "Big Ten Championships" "42" call and response might change.
I don't like change.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:41 AM ^
November 10th, 2014 at 11:46 AM ^
and watching a seminar
November 10th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
But one could argue that if we fail to secure Jim or a proven success. Honestly I can't even make myself finish typing this. There is no case to be made. You think recruiting is bad now? At least this class is small which mitigates the damage a bit. He needs to go.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
Hoke should be kept if and only if the future contains the following truths:
-Harbaugh isn't available or otherwise won't come to Michigan
-Hoke wins out the season - Maryland, OSU, and the bowl
Hoke probably has to go ultimately. That said I believe DB was the real cancer and am quite mollified now that he is gone.
November 10th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^
While I agree wholehearted that Dave Brandon had to go, I have no idea why you think his being gone will result in the football team's performance improving appreciably.
November 10th, 2014 at 1:30 PM ^
Clearly Dave Brandon was giving Hoke & Co. bad advice during the film sessions he was sitting in on. I mean, Hoke is 1.000 since Dave Brandon resigned. Coincidence?!?!
I got nothing.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
If Jim wants to retain him as D-line coach....weeell ok.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:43 AM ^
First, the number one job of a head coach is recruiting. Everything else should be outsourcable to assistants. Hoke has done an undeniably very good job at recruiting both players and two coordinators with exceptional (read: better than Hoke's) resumes; no one denies that. The failure has been in player development, that is on the position coaches more than the HC.
Second, this team has had a terrible turnover margin the last few years, without which we would have been much more respectable. Turnovers are largely random (http://mgoblog.com/diaries/turnovers-and-randomness) so to the extent our failures have been related to turnover margin, that failure should not be held against Hoke, and is likely to revert to the mean in coming years.
And no, of course I don't believe any of this shit. He should be fired. Probably yesterday.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:46 AM ^
IANAL, but to play devil's advocate, I doubt the person making the decision is going to say "hey look what OSU did to MSU" when making this decision. That doesn't seem to be how people think around here. This theoretical decision maker would have to conclude that "Hoke's Players" are still sort of underclassmen. About 90% of the offense (not starters, the entire offense) has 2+ years of eligibility left... AFTER this season and the defense has a lot of young talent that should theoretically improve next year. So THEORETICALLY there should still be some improvement next season, and it is unfair to fire a coach until the play of his team seems to have reached its max potential and has plateaued.
There may also be some thought that Michigan fired the last guy too quickly, and that could have an impact.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:43 AM ^
doesn't even make a good nacho dip. I got nothing.....
November 10th, 2014 at 1:56 PM ^
Yeah, but I bet Brady knows how to make a mean plate of nachos. Like Tios Mount Nachismo style.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^
The only reason I can see for keeping him is if the AD and high level donors put feelers out with candidates, don't find a lot of great options, and decide to put this off until next year. It doesn't look like a great year to be looking for high level coaching hires with few established successful coaches this year looking to make the jump to an elite job. I am guessing there will be a lot of coordinator hires this year.
I don't think this will happen though.
November 10th, 2014 at 1:54 PM ^
I doubt that we wouldn't be able to find a better option than Brady H, but if that were the case, then keeping Hoke might be necessary. In retrospect, I wonder how many would have wanted Rich Rod out if they knew we would be hiring Hoke.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^
if we really want to do some lasting damage to Michigan football. Thats about the only reason I can come up with for keeping him: Schlissel and Hackett secretly love OSU
November 10th, 2014 at 11:48 AM ^
His players like him? That's about it.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:48 AM ^
John comes to coach offense, Jim comes to coach defense (or vise versa) each with full reign, and Hoke takes a massive pay cut but remains the "J. Ira and Nikki Harris person in charge of things is just in charge of things" defacto head coach/father of 115 kids?
November 10th, 2014 at 11:50 AM ^
Start Shane Morris* at QB then beat Maryland by 50 and Ohio State by 10.
(* To be clear, I am not calling for Morris to start. I'm stating that Hoke would have to prove that his QB has been holding this offense down, and beating the remaining two teams soundly with a different QB would provide the appropriate evidence).
November 10th, 2014 at 1:56 PM ^
Actually if that were to happen, it might be more damning than good. If you were able to put that good an offense on the field, what took you so damn long.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:50 AM ^
To be made. Fire him after OSU.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:51 AM ^
He'd make a great d-line coach for whoever we bring in as the next head coach.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:53 AM ^
Hoke doesn't need a map to get around Ann Arbor. We are saving enormous sums of money by slashing our map budget nearly to nothing.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:58 AM ^
If you look at this purely with cold logic and remove all fandom aspects.
We have a good defense and a staff that has shown skill in developing defensive talent, not to mention recruiting it.
We have a horrid tire fire of an offense.
If a clear homerun hit (Jim Harbaugh, Dan Mullen, your favorite target's name here) is not on the market, we are left going after an up and coming name. We have half the pieces we need. At that point the AD has to consider the potential risk behind a total regime change or the risk behind trying for some kind of stability with coach shuffling. Ideally you have experts such as Moeller look over what Nuss has been doing here and say "Do you think he turn this around or do we need to send Borges a shit ton of flowers and an apology?" Not to mention Funk of course.
Another factor I think one might consider is how much you want to risk on Harbaugh. What if for example the vibe we are getting off Harbaugh is that he is pretty sick of the NFL but not quite fed up enough to leave this year and no other sure fire options are moving? So he's not in play for the 2014 Coaching Search, but there is an eighty percent change he is in play for 2015, then why not extend Hoke (with a small buyout due to his current performance) and if Harbaugh really is in play in 2015, you can fire Hoke then after his fifth year. If you replace Hoke this year, we'd have to fire a guy in year one to take advantage of the market in 2015, and that's a bad look.
The 2014 market is kind of grim honestly in that we're looking at Harbaugh, Mullen maybe being in play to a bigger program, and rumors that Stoops isn't happy. There's no really strong up and coming names at mid major schools we can hit right now. So the fact Hoke is fireable in 2015 unless he totally tears it up, actually has some value to the program. If you can't buy a winning stock in 2014, do you want to buy an unproven stock or do you keep your known mediocre stock and try again in 2015?
November 10th, 2014 at 12:08 PM ^
The defense has played poorly vs teams with comparable or even slightly inferior talent. ND, MSU, and Rutgers(!) all scorched this defense. The only teams the defense managed to control were teams wirh inferior talent and/or injury problems. Even then we saw Northwestern drive 95 yards. This with 2nd and 3rd string players starting at the RB and WR positions and a hobbled QB.
Cold logic will also note the year-to-year deterioration of the program in terms of overall record. This, of all statistics, is the most damning. The point of playing games is to win and at that the staff is getting worse.
The offense...well, the video provides all the information you need.
In sum, there is no logical way this staff can keep their jobs.
November 10th, 2014 at 12:40 PM ^
but there's a high probability he will be in 2015 is pretty much impossible. There's really no reason to think next year will have a better crop of available coaching candidates. It's more likely there will be more high profile schools in the market with us.
Good try though. There is no plausible scenario where keeping Hoke as HCfor next year is a good idea.
November 10th, 2014 at 11:55 AM ^
is based on "making decisions is hard, firing a coach and hiring a new coach involves a lot of decisions, therefore, let's retain him."
That's pretty much it. Every time I hear a rumor that UM would like to keep Hoke on, all I hear is, "MAN, firing/hiring a coach seems like a lot of work!"
November 10th, 2014 at 12:00 PM ^
I won't make the case, but if it does happen, here's what they'll use for justification:
- The usual Great Guy stuff,
- Top choices not available / too expensive, so go with the devil you know,
- Large buyouts for him and his staff . . . they want to de-emphsize stratospheric money spent on football coaches,
- The illusion of team improvement if he wins out / goes to a bowl,
- He was handcuffed by youth / inexperience / injuries.
Now that Brandon's gone, I don't think they'll be so stupid as to try to blow that kind of lame crap by us with a pat on the head, but I've been wrong before. They will ultimately do what they want to do and then make up a reason why later.
November 10th, 2014 at 12:57 PM ^
Do people really believe this malarkey? The improvement we've seen is illusory?
November 10th, 2014 at 8:16 PM ^
Yes. I do.
It is not a real improvement in that we can compete toe to toe with OSU and MSU which is all that matters. I don't care that we've "improved" enough to beat IU and NW in sloppy games.
We will definitely be better next year under Hoke because of older more experienced players. But we won't be near good enough next year. Or the year after that. Or the year after that. And that is why he has to go.
November 10th, 2014 at 12:00 PM ^
We would have to get new name plates for offices in Schembechler Hall and that seems like a lot of work
November 10th, 2014 at 12:05 PM ^
With the complete collapse of this recruiting class, Hoke can NOT stay. Unless Robert Kardashian reads this blog, I doubt anyone could make the argument.
Next year is slated to be a "fresh start." By keeping Hoke, we are haulting progress and very well may push this slump well into the future.
November 10th, 2014 at 12:07 PM ^
Is dead. If he's making the argument, then Hoke has been seriously holding back on his magic poop.