Is the Sherrone Moore vs Jesse Minter debate a false choice?
Assuming JH leaves, it seems likely he'd take Minter with him, making Sherrone the obvious successor (especially with DeBoer and Fisch off the table). However, I've seen many argue that Minter would be the better choice for HC due to the strength of the defense the last few years (not wrong!). Although, the offensive line play has been every bit as important.
Were Sherrone to be JH's handpicked successor -- and it seems pretty clear that he is -- wouldn't the Ravens/Michigan/Chargers (or Eagles?) partnership keep the Michigan NFL DC internship open anyway? I can't imagine the Harbaugh's (and Minter) wouldn't take care of Sherrone on this front if he was Jim's handpicked successor. And if that's the case, wouldn't Sherrone's game day HC wins over PSU and OSU, his relationship with the current players on the roster, and his ability to connect with high school and portal players make him every bit as strong (if not stronger) of a candidate than Minter?
For reference sake, Andy Staples has mentioned this very contingency here.
January 16th, 2024 at 11:59 PM ^
My feelings 100%. Good post NOLA
January 16th, 2024 at 11:35 PM ^
Why was a Washington HC on the table but now its off the table?
January 17th, 2024 at 1:19 AM ^
Because he is now the Alabama HC.
January 20th, 2024 at 2:05 AM ^
I meant why cant we get the next Washington HC? Jedd.
You are both crazy.
January 17th, 2024 at 7:41 AM ^
You serious?
January 20th, 2024 at 2:06 AM ^
Jedd, yep
January 16th, 2024 at 11:42 PM ^
I would like to see Minter stick around d either way, whether Sherrone is HC and keeps him as DC, or Minter gets pick to be HC.
I was never really a defensive guy, but since Minter came around, I love it, and don't want to lose it.
January 17th, 2024 at 11:54 AM ^
It's going to cost a lot of money but yes
January 16th, 2024 at 11:42 PM ^
Dunno but I don't feel like Harbaugh should be calling the shots of he's leaving. Not saying we don't hire them but we can't hire guys because the guy on the way out advises it
January 16th, 2024 at 11:45 PM ^
I mean... if he had any National Championship rings, would you listen?
January 17th, 2024 at 12:20 AM ^
The ring certainly validates him as a great coach. But I'm not sure how it makes him the chooser of the next coach. Lloyd carr was a championship coach who was too involved in the plans after
January 17th, 2024 at 3:53 AM ^
Yah. He needs to call shots. You don't want another doing so. He got program to where we want it and knows the best choice to keep that going. Sherrone would be it, although losing Minter is such a blow.
January 16th, 2024 at 11:43 PM ^
I would just like to say that Michigan will save a lot of money if Sherrone replaces Harbaugh this year. Some of that money will surely go into the salary pool for assistants. I'm not willing to assume any of the assistants are automatically leaving. It would make a lot of sense for Sherrone to prioritize keeping the defensive staff together, especially Minter.
January 17th, 2024 at 12:45 AM ^
Saving a few million doesn't win championships. Spend the best for the best. This is Michigan. Unfortunately, not many options left.
January 16th, 2024 at 11:46 PM ^
If Harbaugh leaves maybe he can sign a giant contract and throw a few mil back to Michigan for NIL bags. Donor
January 16th, 2024 at 11:54 PM ^
Who’s to say the NFL doesnt come for Moore? Good offensive line play is valuable everywhere
January 17th, 2024 at 12:36 AM ^
Uhh his xs and os are ok at best. He isn't leaving college to be an o-line coach in the NFL, and no NFL team would consider him as a OC.
January 17th, 2024 at 12:01 AM ^
The token in favor of taking the OC as head coach and not the DC is that the offense and it's choices can be used to control the pace and flow of the game as a whole, while the defense typically reacts to the game as presented by the opposing offense. So, the head coach with a meaningful offensive coaching background is at least theoretically more prepared to make winning decisions at any given time, all else being equal, than the one with a defensive background.
Neither of these guys having been a head coach, there is no way to know who would be better or if either are destined to be good enough. But as a rule, I would lean to the OC first because of the in-game dynamism it should bring.
January 17th, 2024 at 12:02 AM ^
It's 99.999 percent Sherrone Moore if Harbaugh leaves. Not because JH picked him. Not because Michigan hasn't thought about it and poked around. But because he's the best fit. He earned his shot. We saw him grind out Michigan's three toughest wins of the season on the field last year. And his resume is stronger than guys like Fisch and DeBoer had when they got their first shots.
January 17th, 2024 at 12:25 AM ^
Deboer is like 114-12. He beat Oregon 2x this year and Texas as well, those wins are as good as psu, osu and bama (statistically speaking). And Moore was acting hc of harbaugh's team. Who cares whose first 3 (acting or otherwise) hc games were stronger. Either has better overall resumes than moore, and it's not debatable (they have been successful assistants AND successful head coaches!).
At this point, it's harbaugh or Moore, and I'm ok with that, but your line of reasoning as to moore having a stronger resume is ludicrous. You think he is the better fit/continuity/whatever, fine. But resume is more than first shots, it's longevity, recruiting, winning, consistency. It's not even about earning his shot, every candidate has earned it at this level. But there are no better/more proven candidates left, so its all academic.
January 17th, 2024 at 8:26 AM ^
With regards to DeBoer, what was the sustainability of the success in the programs he left? He is a great coach, but other than coaching an NAIA school, where has he been long enough to evaluate his recruiting and player developmental prowess?
January 17th, 2024 at 9:47 AM ^
Well he recruited the Heisman runner up (portal is an important element of recruiting). And he took a 4-8 team and brought them on a 21 game win streak immediately. All as the HC.
Which ace players has Moore brought in as a primary recruiter?
January 17th, 2024 at 12:03 AM ^
I really don't think Moore should be the HC. I get that he won those games as the interim, but this team was the most talented team at Michigan in years.
The highlight of the team was the defense who got the absolutely most out of it's player. The offense, with the best QB and arguably the best RB in school history played well, but was not elite and struggled a lot. I don't think Moore is an elite play caller, I don't think he maximized the talent on offense. I think he's an elite o line coach, and an average/above average OC. I'm just nervous about giving him the keys simply for continuity of culture.
Especially since more than likely Minter would leave too and we haven't recruited super well the last couple of years and that will probably catch up. Obviously he can hire great assistants, but he has no track record.
January 17th, 2024 at 12:21 AM ^
I hear you on the play calling concerns. I guess a question I have has to do with the extant to which JH still has influence on in-game play calls? I was never a huge fan of JH's play calling when he used to have the co-coordinators suggest plays to him before he signaled it in himself.
Nowadays, it does seem like Jim's handed the play-calling keys over to Moore for the most part, but I still wonder if he isn't interjecting with some regularity. I have liked the way Moore has implemented some interesting pass-game concepts like, for example, the WR motioning at full speed to a free release behind another WR right at the snap (a Miami Dolphins staple). I doubt that came from Harbaugh. Anyway, I wonder if Moore wouldn't be an even better play caller all on his own.
January 17th, 2024 at 12:41 AM ^
The 4 duos that won the championship have harbaugh's fingerprints all over them. The passing game is not what won the national championship, that's for sure. 22 tds and under 3k yards in 15 games. When he was acting hc, the playcalls weren't some masterclass all of a sudden. It's just as likely he will be the same or worse on his own.
January 17th, 2024 at 1:09 AM ^
I think the play calling during the 3 games Harbaugh was gone, weren't very good. Did he call good plays sometimes, yeah, but overall I think our offense is what Iowa dreams to be. Our passing game is meh with JJ and I can't imagine it ever being better.
This won't be a popular opinion but out of Harbaugh, Moore and Minter, I'd be 100% cool losing Moore. I just fear that the only reason people want Moore to be coach is purely for culture reasons. I don't think Minter or Moore should be the HC but if I had to pick any, I would pick the better coach which is Minter.
January 17th, 2024 at 11:58 AM ^
I basically agree with everything you said here. If Moore hands over playcalling to a solid OC and we somehow retain Minter, I'd feel OKish. But it is a total question mark and I would not feel at all confident given what Moore has shown
January 17th, 2024 at 12:37 AM ^
You're getting downvoted probably for lack of substance...but you're asking the right question. I think Minter is FAR more important than Sherrone and I think if we kept Minter and Herbert, I'm not sure I would even care that much about Jim leaving.
Alas, this is most likely fantasy, because as you said, I think Minter goes with Jim.
January 17th, 2024 at 9:24 AM ^
Well, Minter maybe doesn't go with Jim if he's offered the HC position. That's kind of the debate here, no?!
And Minter then decides whether to offer Sherrone a fat raise to try to retain him, or let's him move on if not.
There's a lot of merit to this approach - but it's a real are "X's & O's" or "culture" your key value type of debate.
Which is not to say Minter brings no cultural continuity or Sherrone no X's & O's strengths - just that the other is stronger at those things, from outside appearances.
January 17th, 2024 at 12:39 AM ^
Lance Leipold has six national titles. He is turning Kansas(!) into a winner. Imagine what he could do with Michigan’s resources.
Bringing Jalon Daniels along would solve the QB question.
That said, Warde will go with Moore because it is the path of least resistance. Popular coach, member of national championship staff, widely seen as up and comer, recent track record of inexperience HC having success…Dabo,Smart, etc.
January 17th, 2024 at 12:55 AM ^
This defense is slap yo momma good. That alone puts minter in the retain at all costs category. I wouldn't be too worried about this coming year so long as we keep minter and Herbert.
January 17th, 2024 at 12:57 AM ^
Did we not just see three straight, very critical weeks of players ready to run through a wall for Sherrone Moore? It's an easy choice, especially if he surrounds himself with a very experienced staff.
January 17th, 2024 at 7:36 AM ^
The big hesitation is that Jim was able to coach the entire week
January 17th, 2024 at 9:27 AM ^
What, did they not run through a wall vs E. Carolina?!
January 17th, 2024 at 11:03 AM ^
The team was on a mission. If Hart was the interim, they wouldn't have played as hard?
January 17th, 2024 at 12:01 PM ^
Moore did an OK job at Xs and Os and he seems to be a great glue guy but the program culture and morale revolved around Jim Harbaugh. Other guys might have bought in and carried that with them as well but people would be silly to just assume Sherrone Moore could maintain that.
January 17th, 2024 at 12:58 AM ^
I like Sherrone a lot, but if Harbuagh leaves, I hope we hire someone with head coaching experience and enough cachet to attract and hire an elite staff.
January 17th, 2024 at 2:19 AM ^
it's not a debate (whether we like it or not).
Also, let's stop using versus and putting our own coaches against each other.
January 17th, 2024 at 2:32 AM ^
After Harbaugh leaves for the NFL, no NFL team—the Ravens or any other franchise—is going to give two shits about Michigan's assistant coaches. The only reason McDonald and then Minter came here in the first place was because JH was here and his brother was going to help him out. Once Harbaugh is gone, the pipeline is too.
January 17th, 2024 at 2:58 AM ^
But if Minter becomes the new DC, the Raven's will want to send some of their other D coaches to head for Michigan, so they can craft their skills and become good future DC for them. It's like an unbreakable chain.
January 17th, 2024 at 11:09 AM ^
Can't tell if this is tongue in cheek. Not everyone is going to want to come to college, and it's not like every member of the ravens d staff is going to be an ace d-coord
January 17th, 2024 at 2:46 AM ^
John will steal Minter for his new DC. Michigan will have to hire one of the Raven's DB coach or LB coach to keep the Raven D going. Moore will be a candidate for our new coach.
January 17th, 2024 at 9:29 AM ^
Why does John need a new DC?
January 17th, 2024 at 4:17 AM ^
I was ok with Moore as head coach when I thought it meant Minter would still be there to anchor the defense. Handing the entire program to Moore on his own is a huge risk. Could be boom or bust.
Warde would have to give him all the NIL support he needs.
January 17th, 2024 at 6:39 AM ^
Ain't it fun playing AD and/or GM?
January 17th, 2024 at 6:55 AM ^
I have no idea what you're trying to say. Seems like your choice is Moore, your title makes no sense.
January 17th, 2024 at 6:59 AM ^
Michigan is very fortunate to have such a great staff to even make this a debate. The number of other teams that have two coordinators with HC potential is probably zero.
January 17th, 2024 at 7:30 AM ^
If Moore is named the head coach we are going to be in a great spot. We'll be able to get an elite DC if not Minter. Hart to OC unless he takes another HC job.
But mostly we know Moore will be a lifer. It'll be a little different than JH. He has the culture and can continue the work being dong. This is about as ideal of a transfer as possible