September 28th, 2019 at 10:33 PM ^
Pretty much this, however I think that Harbaugh has muddied the consistency of the offense. Each year there has been some form of offense overhaul via coaching change and/or scheme. It will take time before the Gattis offense even clicks and if it does he better be the coach in waiting or he is off to another school.
September 28th, 2019 at 10:34 PM ^
It seems you are missing something in your argument. What you need to understand is OSU fired John Cooper because he couldn’t beat Michigan...and now they are a top-5 team annually and have been for the past ~20 years. The juggernaut they have built hinges on their inability to beat us. Here’s the issue: They solved the problem, we haven’t.
September 28th, 2019 at 10:48 PM ^
It was more than that. OSU went 6-6 in 1999 and 8-4 in 2000. They had guys on that last team playing with 0.0 GPAs, which might have gotten them in trouble with the NCAA. If it had just been an issue of not beating Michigan, they'd have fired Cooper years before.
September 28th, 2019 at 10:56 PM ^
Cooper was there 13 years. It made a great story to say he got canned because he couldn't beat Michigan consistently, but dude also went 6-6 in 1999 at a school where that's even more of a death sentence than it'd be at Michigan and then the follow-up was a by their standards fairly lackluster 8-4. Of course, his record vs Michigan played a role because it meant he never had as much good will as a guy who went 62-12-1 over 6 years should have had..but it wasn't the only factor.
I will also point out that Cooper actually had five bad to mediocre years at the start at his reign and OSU stuck with him..which did allow Cooper to lead them to some excellent seasons later on including those near misses on the NC in 1996 and 98. When in doubt, stick with the guy already there and let him figure it out.
September 30th, 2019 at 2:12 PM ^
Cooper lost his job because he had several No.1 teams with a ton of NFL HOFers on it and never brought a Natty Home, plus bad bowl record (3-8)
...and he could not beat Michigan (2-10-1)
September 28th, 2019 at 10:38 PM ^
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote. However, if things aren't working, then you have to try something different. Now, I'm not saying it isn't working (although, to be fair, I was on that ledge last week), and I don't want Harbaugh relieved (again, last Saturday happened and the ledge was aware of my presence). But if, for whatever reason, someone decides it isn't working, he would have to go.
Define what "isn't working" means to you. Figure that out, and if that bar isn't hit, then you must replace. There is no other way to achieve the goal, even if it means yet another step back before moving forward.
So there are plausible reasons to start new again.
September 28th, 2019 at 10:47 PM ^
What’s not working is Michigan. When has Michigan ever been better than OSU? OSU is the most consistently good football program of all time. We are their most hated rival, and all our goal run through them. Sucks, doesn’t it? But, Michigan has been searching for the OSU killer for a long time now. You guys all thought we’d found one in Harbaugh. After all, he himself once guaranteed a win and delivered, right? Well, he’s getting out recruited because Michigan can’t the best of Ohio’s recruits — like Woodson, Howard, Elvis, etc. Is someone else going to come in a magically change that?
September 28th, 2019 at 10:55 PM ^
Michigan leads the all time series 58-51-6, despite the series record since the mid-90's. Michigan also has more wins and a better all time win percentage. Go BPONE somewhere else...
September 28th, 2019 at 11:02 PM ^
I’m not BPONing ... I’m just “keeping it real” like you guys always do. Take away all the leather helmet years and whatcha got? They’re better than us at football. Simple fact. They’ve been better than us for decades upon decades. With a couple of years there we found a group of players who, despite annually losing to lesser talented teams, habitually, they found a way to beat OSU despite them being higher ranked. That was fun. I was there for all of them. But those days are gone.
September 29th, 2019 at 11:23 AM ^
Sten, OSU was a 9-3 football program from Earle Bruce's second year until Cooper broke them through in 93. Even then they couldn't win bowl games and couldn't beat us. How was Tressel able to reverse that in two seasons? Simple, he was the right guy.
September 28th, 2019 at 11:05 PM ^
What people need to understand is that if you fire Harbaugh because he can't beat OSU, you're creating an even bigger distance between us and them because you got another guy in who will start from scratch as it will most definitely be a hostile takeover.
this ^^^ !!!
You think the gulf is big now?! Run him outta town and see what happens.
September 28th, 2019 at 10:28 PM ^
The hand-wringing and fawning over OSU is pathetic. They’ve (almost) always been better than Michigan since face masks were attached to football helmets.
I was around for the Cooper years and although fun, Michigan always dropped games to unlikely teams and finished 8-4 or something like that. One time, in 1997, Michigan had a complete team and a complete season. Once. Yet people in here act as if Michigan has always been elite, and because it isn’t is failing miserably. Maybe when Old 98 was playing, or when Yost was coach, or for a couple of seasons under Bo. When has Michigan ever recruited better than OSU? Almost never.
The delusion and self-loathing is pathetic.
September 28th, 2019 at 10:32 PM ^
Some of us are actually sick of having a disappointing football team while OSU has been extremely successful the past 17 years. Some of us expect more.
September 28th, 2019 at 10:41 PM ^
It’s been going on a lot longer than 17 years. Expect more all you want, but you’re going to continuously be making changes in the search for a dragon slayer that likely doesn’t exist.
September 28th, 2019 at 10:35 PM ^
Carr was 20-8 vs top 10. Won 5 big ten titles, a natty and beat several top 5 osu squads. Was 20-4 vs Michigan state and Wisconsin.
Michigan was a legendary program that sometimes dropped crap games but would more often than not win the big ones.
Congrats we can beat Rutgers and Maryland now lol. Nobody national cares. A walking punchline of a program
September 28th, 2019 at 10:50 PM ^
Wisconsin was horrible for most of Carr’s tenure, and MSU was not much better. Michigan was a legendary program in the 40’s and the beginnings of CFB. Carr was the beneficiary of Cooper. Once he was fired, and OSU again got serious about beating Michigan, the wins dried up, and then took away Michigan’s #1 source of talented players — Ohio itself.
September 28th, 2019 at 11:02 PM ^
Wisconsin was horrible? Ron Dayne and the Badgers who went 10-2, won the big ten snd the rose bowl? THAT Wisconsin was garbage. Who beat them? Michigan. AT Camp Randall.
Carr was 20-8 vs top 10 teams and you have no argument. Tell us whats Harbaughs record vs top 20 smart guy?
Carr has 10 victories better than Harbaughs best
September 28th, 2019 at 11:11 PM ^
How old are you? Wisconsin was the basement of the B10 for years — they were almost always Michigan’s homecoming game.
Carr coached in a different time, when MSU and Wisconsin weren’t threats, and PSU was just entering the B10. You’re comparing apples to oranges, smart guy. Carr did great against OSU, until Cooper was fired, and then HE ushered in the fall that Harbaugh dug us out of.
September 28th, 2019 at 11:21 PM ^
Lol i dont need to be 50 years old like you to know who Ron Dayne is. I dont need to be 50 years old to know PSU was a top 5 program when they joined the Big Ten.That Carr would regularly schedule top 15 programs to start the year whilst still play ND every year.
You sir have no heart. You are comfortable and make excuses for mediocrity.
Meanwhile Harbaugh is wiping his ass with 9 million dollars worth of excuses.
September 28th, 2019 at 11:24 PM ^
So much heart you won’t answer my question.
September 28th, 2019 at 11:33 PM ^
You sir have no heart. You are comfortable and make excuses for mediocrity.
I’m not making excuses, I’m simply saying Michigan has always pretty much been a bit better than most programs but only occasionally better than the one program that ALWAYS stands in our way and is our measuring stick. You’re the one who seems to be up in arms (and pathologically jealous) and advocating yet another change in the hope that this one will finally be the one that will make us better than the best program in the nation historically. That’s not an excuse, that a fact. Michigan has had no consistent answer for OSU since Cooper was fired. Not Carr, not RR, not Hoke, and now not Harbaugh. Even Bo wasn’t great against them. What does that tell you?
September 29th, 2019 at 10:05 AM ^
What the fuck are you talking about? Wisconsin started to turn it around in 93 when they went to the Rose Bowl...two years before Carr started coaching. They were an 8,9 win, and occasionally better pretty much every year. Michigan beat them in 98 Ron Dayne's Heisman year and 2006 when they went 12-1.
September 28th, 2019 at 10:54 PM ^
Carr went 5-1 against John Cooper and 1-6 against Jim Tressel.
The truth is, OSU has been humming at a really high level since 2002 and it's been tough for Michigan to keep up. There have been a few years where we were comparable with them on paper going in (2006, 2016, 2018) but almost never - other than 2011 - better. And whenever we're comparable, the Game always seems to be in Columbus.
September 28th, 2019 at 11:01 PM ^
You're spot on. But this is where the divisional split hurt us too. But you're right about carr. He led us to multiple big ten titles. Asking for that isn't too high of a bar.
One thing Michigan will need is luck and help from other teams. Basically the big ten will need more chaos for Michigan to ever get to b10 championship game. It is unrealistic to think michigan will get to 11-1 in the current b10 divisional set up.
September 28th, 2019 at 11:20 PM ^
Asking for that isn't too high of a bar.
You’re right, it’s not too high of a bar — it’s always the bar. But, when reaching that bar requires that you go through a much tougher division than the last time Michigan was winning B10 titles AND the most consistent program of the last 20 (or more) years, its imperative to have some perspective and understanding of the actual situation, not some idealized version of it.
September 28th, 2019 at 10:29 PM ^
now THAT was embarassing
September 28th, 2019 at 10:38 PM ^
Wyoming up by 30. Alright
September 29th, 2019 at 12:07 AM ^
The Cowboys are pretty darn good this year! They bummed me out losing to Tulsa last week, but I think they can get to 8 or 9 wins. At San Diego State in 2 weeks will be a telling game in that regard. Wyoming hasn't won 9+ games since 1996.
I sort of love late-night MWC football. Hawaii is another MWC team that is looking pretty darn good too. Whooping up on Nevada (the same Nevada that beat Purdue). Just ran a fumble-rooski that gained 30 yards. It's also hilarious seeing Hawaii completely bundled up as it is 36 degrees in Reno.
September 28th, 2019 at 10:39 PM ^
When eSPN picked you guys to win the B1G.....the Buckeyes no doubt posted that shit all over the locker room.
September 29th, 2019 at 7:28 AM ^
I wonder if that's true this year. I'm sure there was some eye rolling when Michigan won the preseason B1G led by September Heisman winner Shea Patterson, but I really hope Day puts the emphasis on where it needs to be: Alabama and Clemson.
September 29th, 2019 at 12:41 PM ^
The banner in the weight room says “Get to Indy”
September 28th, 2019 at 10:39 PM ^
Only hope Michigan has against OSU, would be for the offense to improve every week, where we are scoring over 40 points a game against good defenses. OSU will score plenty against our D. They almost look like a pro team playing against college teams.
September 28th, 2019 at 10:40 PM ^
That was a fucking demonstration of talent and will. I sincerely hope UM can perform like that in the games and years ahead. Ryan Day is not fucking around. No doubt, he has a chip on his shoulder to prove his success is not simply because of Urban.
September 28th, 2019 at 10:44 PM ^
Okudah was a top 10 overall recruit. I think he was ranked ahead of dpj or really close to him. He’s just been behind on the depth chart waiting for his chance and developing because osu recruits extremely well year in and year out. Imagine having a top 10 kid behind on the depth chart because you recruit that well every year. This is why osu is a natty contender. Baron browning another top 20 kid in that class is also a backup olb!
September 28th, 2019 at 10:52 PM ^
Same for the WR’s.
New WRs in 2020 class: Fleming (#3 player in the nation) mookie Cooper, Jax Smith, and Gee Scott are all in bound. All top 100 nationally.
With Garrett and Williams already on the field as freshmen.
September 28th, 2019 at 11:38 PM ^
And OSU got the #1 WR out of Texas again this year. But recruiting doesn’t matter, just ask MGoBlog.
September 29th, 2019 at 12:03 AM ^
Recruiting definitely matters, and they’re kicking our ass in that capacity, which is why they’re kicking our ass on the field, and it been that way for decades.
Remember Tressel’s “Lock Box” on Ohio. It was real. Before that Bo, Mo and Carr were able to get (some) top players from Ohio to come to Michigan — two Heisman winners. This is decidedly NOT the case today nor since the mid 2000’s.
People can complain about Harbaugh all they want but the game is Jimmy’s & Joe’s far more than X’s & O’s. They’re better at every position, and when we’re comparable in spots, but they’re deeper — just like Alabama. Recruiting elite players is not easy, but it’s simple at OSU — they can fall out of bed and have an elite class year in and year out. That’s that dragon that we must slay to even win our fucking division.
September 28th, 2019 at 11:15 PM ^
Right now it feels like we'll need a lot of luck to beat them this season. Fuck.
September 28th, 2019 at 11:52 PM ^
Sporty headed to the shoe for a late Night massacre?
Chapman dialing it up on 97.1
September 28th, 2019 at 11:56 PM ^
OSU is going to beat the piss out of them. I can’t wait to see Dantonio’s face.
September 29th, 2019 at 12:44 AM ^
Chapman sucks. I would rather hear nails on a chalkboard than that turd.
September 29th, 2019 at 12:10 AM ^
I know we all follow our recruits and love recruiting. We’ve got some big time elite level guys on our team. The biggest difference though is OSU stacks them up. There’s just a huge difference between getting an average of 2-4 top 100 guys a class and getting 10-12 of those. And when they stack those guys up class after class there just a big talent disparity.
So OSU has like 8 top 50 players on their defensive 2 deep. Offense is crazy too, next season they have a chance to have 8 starters who are 5 stars. They just stack those guys up. And the biggest position of recruiting disparity might be O Line. They’ve got 5 star Offensive linemen stacked up whole our only 5 star O Lineman graduates in the Spring.
And these are composite 5 stars, not just guys who might have a 5th star on 1 of the 3 services, but be further down in others.
September 29th, 2019 at 12:17 AM ^
To underscore your point - there are starters at Michigan who probably wouldn't make the practice squad at OSU.
September 29th, 2019 at 12:25 AM ^
That’s silly, but I do think you’d have trouble finding 4 of our starters who could start for them.
September 29th, 2019 at 12:50 AM ^
Took me a bit but DPJ, Bredeson, Vert, and McKeon. Not much outside them.
September 29th, 2019 at 1:04 AM ^
And everyone of those there’s an argument to be made. I was thinking maybe Hudson, but not McKeon.
September 29th, 2019 at 1:39 AM ^
An argument could definitely be made for Hudson but I just didn’t know where he would fit. McKeon gets more touches than Farrell and more experience. That’s why I went there. Either way that is troubling that only 4 or 5 could start.
September 29th, 2019 at 10:33 AM ^
I honestly don't think DPJ would start, he doesn't have elite speed or the ability to get elite separation against elite DB's
September 29th, 2019 at 12:41 AM ^
Never heard it put that way before but "stacking" up recruits is exactly what they do. Their depth is off the charts. Gotta laugh when someone mentions that OSU loses all kinds of starters after the year. Who cares ? they have reserves ready to step in that would start at any other B1G school.
September 29th, 2019 at 1:24 AM ^
“Stacked liked cordwood” is what they say about Alabama’s talent, and OSU isn’t far behind that.
As was said above, it’s the OL, and I would add the QB recruiting as well. Michigan was once a OL and QB factory and that abruptly came to a halt in 2007 — and was diminishing before that.