[LOCKED] OT: Kaepernick/Reid settle with NFL

Submitted by donjohn64 on February 15th, 2019 at 4:17 PM

I'm guessing this is what the two 'Football' posts earlier today were intended to discuss....

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26004715/colin-kaepernick-eric-reid-settle-grievance-case-nfl

 

Sorry it's WWL link. TL;DR version - Kaepernick and Reid settled with the NFL, neither is allowed to discuss the matter any further, so we don't know and probably won't find out what kind of settlement (MGoLawyers?).

 

Also, I'm guessing that this is going to get locked due to unreasonable discourse. C'est la vie.

[edit: mgowill] Well this turned out pretty terrible. I've noted some of the worst posts and will be banning accounts. Let's try not to do this again folks.

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boliver46

February 15th, 2019 at 8:12 PM ^

He voluntarily opted out of a $14.9 million contract with the 49ers.

HE OPTED OUT.

He, however, clearly made the right financial decision to become a SJW since he got a Helluva lot more than that not playing anymore.

Joined: 09/14/2012

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NRK

February 15th, 2019 at 9:06 PM ^

I'm not sure if you're being intentionally daft or not, but it appears you don't understand the market for NFL QBs that well. First off, your "he opted out" is mostly irrelevant. 49ers GM John Lynch confirmed in an interview they were going to cut Kaepernick. This is widely documented (Link) This is what Lynch said:

“Yes,” Lynch said regarding whether Kaepernick would have been cut if he hadn’t opted out, “and we had that conversation with him. So I don’t want to characterize it as he made a decision to leave here. We both sat down and under that current construct of his deal, it was a big number. [Coach] Kyle [Shanahan] had a vision for what he wanted to do, and one thing I think Kyle was very clear and I think Colin appreciated, is that Kyle has an idea of how he’d play with Colin Kaepernick. But he preferred to run the exact offense that he ran in Atlanta last year that was record-breaking in this league. And if you change it for the quarterback, you change it for everybody on that offense.  So he had a great discussion that I think gave Colin clarity, so we moved on. Brian Hoyer was one of the guys we pursued. Once we pursued him, we didn’t see Kaep as a backup that would really fit in that scheme and we communicated that to him. So I think we’ve been very up front with it. But I think that is a fair characterization.  Yes, he was not going to be here under the construct of his contract.  We gave him the option, ‘You can opt out, we can release you, whatever.’ And he chose to opt out, but that was just a formality.”

Again, source.

Also, Kaepernick opting out likely was good sense given the QB Market:

  • Mike Glennon (Career QB Rating of 84), signed a 3 year, $45 million deal during 2017 free agency. Pro-football-reference gives Glennon's career AV as 13.
  • Jay Cutler, who was much older than Kaepernick, and coming off a season in which he played only 5 games, with a Career QB Rating of 85.7, signed a 1 year $10 million deal during 2017 free agency. His career AV is higher (109), but was coming off 2 seasons of AVs of 2 and 5, with QB Ratings of 78 and ~81. Link
  • In 2018, Kirk Cousins, QB Rating 93.6, and career AV of 31 (at the time) signed a 3 year, $84 million deal.
  • In 2018, Case Keenum, (current*) QB Rating 84.5 and career AV of 10 (at the time signed a 2 year, $36 million deal.

Kaepernick, has a QB Rating of 88, a career AV of 49, and was coming off seasons of 4 and 9, and ratings of 78.9 and 90.7 Link. At the time of the close of the 2016 season, he was #15 overall in QB Rating. Link.  He currently sits at #18 all time (Link). Ahead of Dalton, Stafford, Alex Smith, Cam Newton, Sam Bradford, Case Keenum, Eli Manning, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Blake Bortles, etc. There's also a host of retired players on there that he's ahead of (Daunte Culpepper, Steve McNair, Brett Favre, etc.).

Look, you can agree or disagree with Kaepernick on the whole protest issue. I don't really care to debate that with you (I'm not going to change your mind if I was opposite of you... which I'm not even getting into if that's my view or not). But that's beside the point. There is a lack of QB talent in the NFL, and it overpays for a QB. Using something objective such as QB Rating Kaepernick was at least decently qualified as an average NFL QB. 

Here's the list of QBs making more than he would have made going into the 2017 season if he had not opted out: Link. There are at least 13 based purely on cap dollars (which can be a bit understated when talking overall contract value that you used).

This is not that crazy. The NFL pays QBs a lot. 

 

*Keenum was not on the through 2016 QB Rating list.

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TheCube

February 15th, 2019 at 9:16 PM ^

Don't bother. Most of these dudes are so insecure that they can't separate their sense of identity from the logic in this situation. It's quite sad really. 

Their sense of superiority is an entitlement that they will never surrender or look for in introspection. 

Joined: 12/19/2018

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MaizeBlueA2

February 16th, 2019 at 1:03 PM ^

Are you suggesting it's better to not share those FACTS...just because it's the internet?

No one, NO ONE can justify Kaep not playing from a purely football standpoint. Those numbers don't lie.

Joined: 11/06/2018

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boliver46

February 15th, 2019 at 4:35 PM ^

Agreed.

Highest paid players in AAF get non-guaranteed contracts at max of $350k.

Word is the AAF was willing to go for a two-year guaranteed contract at $1mil per year.

Nope.

Oh well.  At least he can use Nike money as tissues while he cries all the way to the bank.

Joined: 09/14/2012

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gte896u

February 17th, 2019 at 4:54 PM ^

You two chowderheads realize that the AAF was going to trade HEAVILY on his name, right?  And that 350-500K is a drop in the bucket compared to the value of that publicity?

Seems like youre just mad that a black man has the audacity to place a high worth on himself.

Joined: 11/06/2008

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MichiganStan

February 15th, 2019 at 4:39 PM ^

What a life

Play a few years of NFL football. Take a knee. Decide to opt out of final year of contract. Ask for too much money in contract negotiations. Make NFL pay you reportedly $60-$80 million dollars to shut up. Retire

 

 

Joined: 01/03/2017

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MaizeBlueA2

February 15th, 2019 at 7:37 PM ^

The NFL didn't pay him to shut up. They paid him the money he felt he was owed for being blackballed from the league.

The settlement has nothing to do with his activism nor does it stop him from continuing his activism. 

SOME of you are so dense that you can't separate the two. They are NOT the same.

This is only about his collusion case and whether or not the league conspired to keep him out of the NFL.

So he probably got some franchise tag level numbers and they moved on. But it doesn't mean Kaep has to stop fighting for the cause he was fighting for...

 

How do people not understand this?

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MaizeBlueA2

February 16th, 2019 at 1:07 PM ^

The only thing he has to shut up about is saying that the NFL colluded against him.

He can still kneel, he can still say the NFL doesn't support its players right to free speech, he can still say Urban Meyer is a poopyhead.

The world is NOT mad because Kaep said he was colluded against. Kaep will still be tied to the NFL. He will still have that same voice, image, etc.

He just can't sue them for conspiring to keep him out of the league. That's it. Everything else, he can shout from the mountain tops if he wants.

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Hab

February 15th, 2019 at 4:42 PM ^

neither is allowed to discuss the matter any further, so we don't know and probably won't find out what kind of settlement (MGoLawyers?).

It means both parties are going to get, not what they wanted, but what they're willing to accept.  The lawyers are probably popping bottles.

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Nobody Likes a…

February 15th, 2019 at 4:50 PM ^

I really wish the details were known here. The ethics aside collusion is really hard to prove even when it’s obvious, ie gas station price fixing. So I would have to assume they had some smoking gun for this to get settled or the nfl didn’t want this going to court where subpoena power could have exposed some real unsavory things about the league. This is of course aside from the general low level racist\sexist\classist jack assery that comes out quarterly from this owner or that.

Joined: 09/20/2013

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footballguy

February 15th, 2019 at 4:52 PM ^

I was on the initial "Pro Kaep" team when he first started kneeling.

Then I slowly began to not support him specifically. Hopefully this ends soon so we don't have to talk about him anymore

Joined: 10/04/2018

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Bodogblog

February 15th, 2019 at 5:03 PM ^

The lack of reason on both sides of this is such a reflection of the country. 

He was good, yes.  Then his skills declined, and nobody wants a controversial back-up QB, they want someone who works hard and helps prepare the starter. 

The NFL owners were pissed about the kneeling and related controversy, which likely had an effect on ratings and revenue.  Surely racism and the point of the protest influenced the owners as well. 

This is all correct.  But one side would have you believe it was all due racism, the other that it was all due to a terrible/selfish player. 

How any reasonable person could find this state of debate acceptable is the answer to our division today.  Answer: most have entirely lost reason in favor of their "team". 

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Laser Wolf

February 15th, 2019 at 4:55 PM ^

You guys are just going ignore the fact that the NFL couldn’t wait to litigate air pressure in footballs publicly but was willing to cough up $60-80 million to keep this hush hush and move on? Yeah it’s Kaep that acted in bad faith here. Totally. 

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Nobody Likes a…

February 15th, 2019 at 5:03 PM ^

I’m going to be honest I don’t get why anyone has any goodwill toward the league. Why would anyone give these people the benefit of the doubt ever? Be it the constant con they play with cities over funding their stadiums, the pay for patriotism racket, the way they’ve handled cte, how cheerleaders are treated, any litany of direct sins the league commits on a  daily basis as part of their business as usual grift. Why side with these people

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TheCube

February 15th, 2019 at 7:07 PM ^

It’s because your average American worships rich people and they think, foolishly, that they too can become said rich person by just “pulling” themselves up by the bootstraps completely disregarding the luck and help people need to become wealthy and successful. So these people are easily manipulated by the elite to hate anyone who they perceive is playing victimhood no matter how legitimate claims can be. Ironically, it’s these same people who are the victims. 

‘If you can convince the lowest white man that he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t know you’re picking his pocket..Hell give him someone to look down upon and he’ll empty his pockets for you’ -LBJ 

 

Divide and conquer: it always works. 

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BernardC

February 16th, 2019 at 6:42 AM ^

100% agree NLa.  But I can't side with a guy who is disrespecting our country either (and yes my brothers on the other side of this debate, that is how I unequivocallyview it).  So ?‍♂️?  I think that I'm just done with the NFL altogether. College and AAFL will have to scratch that itch for me. Go Blue!! Arizona!

Joined: 03/17/2010

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Craptain Crunch

February 15th, 2019 at 5:00 PM ^

Let's hope he got a crap load of money from the NFL, so much that he can pay a team to sign him to play!

Joined: 05/20/2016

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SFBlue

February 15th, 2019 at 5:07 PM ^

Will be interesting to see if he now signs somewhere. 

It would have been even more interesting to see the evidence that could have proved up a conspiracy, but there was zero chance that would come out as I am sure the issues would have been determined privately in mediation or arbitration.  

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DCGrad

February 15th, 2019 at 5:07 PM ^

Kneeling aside, Kaep is a pretty big asshole. The 49ers offered him an extension, which he refused because he thought he should get more money. I thought someone else (maybe Seattle?) offered him a contract too, but I'm not sure so I'm not holding it against him.

Then, no one in the NFL wants him and the type of media attention he brings, so he sues the NFL alleging collusion. Cartels are inherently unstable, and a cartel of 32 is a ridiculous assertion.  He wins an undisclosed amount of money for his efforts, I doubt it is $60-$80 million though.

He's then offered a contract in the AAF, which is designed specifically for guys like him. He hasn't played a down since 2016, and he thinks he's worth a $20 million contract? Dude is delusional.

Putting the whole kneeling thing aside, are the above actions going to make owners want to line up and sign him? He is/was a borderline starter without Harbaugh as his coach. You add the extra attention and his over-inflated sense of self worth, and I think most teams just didn't want to deal with him.

I'm no NFL defender either. I think Goddell and most of the owners are pretty big assholes too for a lot of reasons, but the Kaep thing isn't one of those reasons.

EDIT: Looks like he opted out of the last year of his contract with the 49ers (who wanted to extend him) and turned down Seattle and Denver. Collusion case blown up.

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trustBlue

February 15th, 2019 at 5:20 PM ^

This thing was always going to settle out of court. I'm not sure where the shock is coming from. 90% of the time these kind of cases are settled out of court. The only issue is which side has the leverage to dictate the settlement price.

Kaep didnt have a slam dunk, so i doubt get got anywhere close to $80 Mill. But Kaep didnt have to prove an existence of a "cartel" to show collusion - all he had to show was that that some owners had agreed or coordinated not to hire him. The mere prospect of going through discovery and forcing a bunch of NFL owners to testify under oath was probably enough leverage to motivate the NFL to find a way to settle. 

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DCGrad

February 15th, 2019 at 5:51 PM ^

A group of people who collude is a cartel. You just described the elements of a Sherman Act Section 1 case.

Kaep is alleging that all 32 NFL owners agreed to not hire him. DOJ has brought several cases like this in the last couple years, usually involving franchise agreements. He is alleging that agreement restrained his ability to find work and compete in the marketplace (the NFL). 

You're right that he may have been able to show a few owners agreed to not hire him, and that may have entitled him to some money. but his entire case (IMO) rested on the fact that not one owner wanted to hire him, which there is evidence to the contrary. 

The NFL never wanted to litigate this case, but I really doubt that means Kaep will play again. But whatever he got from the settlement is probably enough for him not to care.

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trustBlue

February 15th, 2019 at 7:45 PM ^

This wasn't a Sherman Act case.

Kaep was filing a grievance under Article 17 of the CBA, which reads, in relevant part:

"No Club shall enter into any agreement... with any other Club...to restrict or limit individual Club decision-making (including):

  1. whether to negotiate or not to negotiate with any player;
  2. whether to offer or not to offer a Player Contract to any player"

https://cba.whitfield.football/article-17-anti-collusion/

Kaep only needs to show that any two or more teams colluded not to hire him, not all 32 teams, and doesn't have to prove the existence of a cartel.

Sport Illustrated published something a while breaking down what Kaepernick needed to prove to make his case: 

"7. Kaepernick turning down free-agent offers wouldn’t disprove collusion

Some have speculated that Kaepernick might have told teams, or at least implied to them, that he wants to start. It’s also possible that Kaepernick has turned down overtures—perhaps even offers—from teams that want to sign him.

None of that would prevent Kaepernick from proving collusion. Why? Because an alleged conspiracy might have involved other teams and their officials. If two teams colluded against Kaepernick, and the 30 other teams did not collude, Kaepernick would still have been victimized by collusion."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/15/colin-kaepernick-collusion-lawsuit-against-nfl

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DCGrad

February 15th, 2019 at 8:22 PM ^

Thanks for posting this! As it stands, he may only need to show that 2 teams conspired to not sign him, as you pointed out above.

However, how could anyone prove that there were actual damages suffered as a result of 2 teams agreeing not to sign a player? Let's say that the Patriots and Dolphins agreed they weren't going to sign Kaep. He still has 30 other teams he could play for. How did that agreement hurt him in terms of a dollar value? That's up to his lawyer to figure out.

Two side notes from the SI article:

1. This provision seems almost impossible to enforce; and

2. What is "clear preponderance of the evidence?" I've heard of clear and convincing evidence and preponderance of the evidence, but not a mixture of the two.

 

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trustBlue

February 15th, 2019 at 9:09 PM ^

Re: Damages - 

I'm not sure it works like that. Once collusion is shown, loss of any one contract is going to constitute a full loss of salary to Kaep. If you are fired from your job due to illegal discrimination, would the company be able to claim that the damages were negligible because you could have gotten thousands of other jobs?

I think Kaep would have an ordinary duty to try to mitigate - i.e. to keep looking for comparable work - but any team who decided not to hire him would be the "but for" cause keeping him from a $X million contract. Kaep would also be entitled to treble damages if he won.

1. Not so much impossible to enforce, but difficult to prove. You would need to find some tangible evidence of an agreement (e.g. audio recordings of phone conversations, or emails showing where it was discussed). You couldn't win just by showing that owners disliked him, or showing that he's a better QB than Kirk Cousins or Blake Bortles. You need a smoking gun like a text message between two owners saying "Let's make sure this guy never works in the league again."

So that makes it tough to prove, but it does means that the plaintiff gets a wide berth for discovery - all of the team owners and executives' emails, text messages, records of phone calls for the relevant period, deposing NFL team owners one by one - you start to see why the NFL would be inclined to settle even if they don't think Kaep would be able prove collusion. 

2. "Clear preponderance of the evidence" is a new one for me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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DCGrad

February 15th, 2019 at 9:44 PM ^

He could definitely get some damages, I just think it would be difficult to say what his injuries were as a result of the agreement in this case.

Also hurting his damages claim is that he walked away from the last year option of his current contract and at least 2 other offers.

 

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Sopwith

February 15th, 2019 at 7:35 PM ^

Plenty of teams are willing to withstand any amount of negative publicity when it comes to players who beat up women.

But no, the collusion case was not "blown up." Opting out of the last year of a deal is a smart move for many players who can lock in a longer term contract with more guaranteed money, especially if they want out of team in shambles, which the 49ers were. This was the same genius ownership that ran Harbaugh out of town.

 

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