It's Your Job To Know
[Bryan Fuller]
It doesn't matter whether Urban Meyer knew what Zach Smith did to his wife. It didn't matter if Joe Paterno knew. It didn't matter if Lou Anna Simon knew. All three of these people were or are the superiors of people who can fairly be described as evil, and we are now coming to a society-wide revelation that systems that allow abusers to continue unchecked for years are designed to do so. People in charge of massively failed systems do not get a pass because their system sucks.
Penn State was designed to allow Jerry Sandusky to continue operating well after his mysterious departure from the program. He used Penn State facilities to abuse children for years after his official departure from the staff. That departure was never explained despite requiring explanation: extremely successful 55-year old defensive coordinators do not simply evaporate from college football. Anyone poking around the edges would have found out. That it went on so long is by design.
Michigan State was—is—designed to allow Larry Nassar to operate for years even after reports started filtering up the ranks. Nassar was allowed to see patients for 16 months while he was under investigation for sex crimes. His direct superior is also a sex criminal whose behavior was reported to no avail. The Michigan State board of trustees offered their strong support for Simon even after the scope of the criminality became clear, and hired an ancient toad crony to try to sweep things under the rug.
The only way Urban Meyer did not know about Zach Smith is if his entire program is designed to keep that knowledge away from him. Saying he might not know is no defense. It is worse for Meyer if he ran the kind of program where the head coach did not know serious, damning information about one of his assistant coaches when every one of his coaches' wives knew, when the police knew, when fucking bloggers knew:
Of course he knew. He knew he was an alcoholic, he knew his marriage was in shambles and he knew that his mentor's grandson was a terrible football coach and that he was protected because of bloodline. Literally everybody knew. I knew. I wrote around it for six years.
— Ramzy Nasrallah (@ramzy) August 1, 2018
There are programs like that. There are programs where the biggest sin in the business is telling the head guy what you're up to. Jim Tressel ran a "no snitching" program, and then a lawyer with some very wrong ideas about how Ohio State wanted to run things made the cardinal mistake: he told the head guy what people were up to. The Ohio Bar gave him some misconduct runaround in the aftermath because no deed against the wishes of the program goes unpunished.
It's one thing when you don't want to know about some kid exchanging services for money. But "I don't want to know" is systemic. It spreads. Ohio State learned nothing. Their lesson from the snitching incident was never learned because that entire program was indignant that the NCAA had the temerity to enforce its "no lying to us" rules and fell ass-backwards into an elite coach who just inexplicably left a program he had two titles at. When that guy decides to import an already-established domestic abuser from his previous job, well, nobody asked you about it.
Ohio State was designed to shelter Zach Smith. Urban Meyer's programs at two different unversities were designed to shelter Zach Smith. Meyer's level of knowledge is irrelevant except in an after action report. If Urban Meyer didn't know it's because he didn't want to know. It's his job to know. It is his job to know if any of his players have a jaywalking citation. It is 1000% his job to know whether the flagship institution of the state of Ohio is accommodating a serial abuser.
It is your job to know. If you don't know, you shouldn't have a job.
August 2nd, 2018 at 12:12 PM ^
I'm intentionally going to get far afield from the specifics of the OSU, MSU, and PSU cases:
Some abusers are very good at hiding what they do. They intentionally leave bruises that will be hidden by clothing, threaten their victims with death if they report the abuse, and conceal what they're doing in other ways. Close family members and friends are sometimes shocked to learn of long-time abuse.
My point is that "it's your job to know" could go too far. A coach - or any employer - can only police the lives of its employees so much. Each situation has to be looked at individually. For the reasons I state in the prior paragraph, it might be grossly unfair to hold an employer responsible for not knowing about the abuse of one of its employees.
Again - and I want to be as clear about this as possible - I am making a very general point. What I'm saying here is not a comment on OSU, PSU, or MSU.
August 2nd, 2018 at 12:17 PM ^
As for the Ohio Bar and Christopher Cicero, he violated a clear ethical rule that has nothing to do with protecting Ohio State. He would have been suspended regardless of whether he divulged what he did to Jim Tressel or the CEO of Wendys.
August 2nd, 2018 at 12:14 PM ^
Extremely well put.
August 2nd, 2018 at 12:18 PM ^
So, Brian; what exactly should happen to Ramzy Nasrallah?
And I'd like to know how we should factor in the rather obvious conclusion that for six years, Courtney Smith actively wanted to keep Zach's name (or more accurately, his legal offenses) out of the news, because she was being supported by Zach's $340,000-plus-fabulous-benefits job at The Ohio State University. I don't think that Olentangy Liberty High School, or even Ohio Wesleyan, was paying their WR assistants that kind of money.
We know for sure that Courtney Smith actively wanted to keep things quiet, because she stipulated to have her court file(s) sealed.
August 2nd, 2018 at 12:42 PM ^
trying to call her out for being greedy is weak victim-blaming bullshit.
There are many reasons why domestic abuse victims don't come forward.
No, I am not accepting that kind of labeling. I am not doing any victim-blaming. Courtney Smith went to the police. She got a lawyer. She got a divorce. She got a PPO.
Nobody is going to ask why Courtney Smith "didn't come forward," because SHE CAME FORWARD.
What she didn't do -- very deliberately -- was to make a public case that would surely have threatened her ex-husband's (read: financial supporter's) income.
I am not going to do this PC victim-worship thing for the sake of a college football rivalry.
The operative question is whether Urban Meyer did a terrible disservice to Courtney Smith by not firing her ex-husband six years ago. And my question for Courtney Smith is, "Six years ago, did you want The Ohio State University and The Columbus Dispatch to know about Zach? Or did you really, really want to keep Zach in a spot where he could make $340k?"
I am not calling Courtney Smith out, "for being greedy." I think she was being rational. Of course she did not want to b e abused. She called the police. She got a lawyer. She got a divorce. She got a PPO, and had no trouble calling to get it enforced.
But now, with the OSU paychecks gone, she is suddenly a media personality. See how that works? Follow the money.
I am not going to do this PC victim-worship thing
Never change, junior.
Look, sport. I am not "blaming" Courtney Smith. It is in no way her fault, that her ex-husband was abusive. She had every right to seek legal protection, and she did that.
I am also not claiming that she is '"greedy" now, or was "greedy" in the past.
What I am saying is that if one presumes nothing more than that Courtney Smith was acting in her own rational self-interest, and in the interest of her children, it would be easy to understand that she DID NOT WANT her ex-husband to lose his job at OSU. For six years, or longer.
Or maybe after everything she had to endure, she still didn't want to ruin the guy's life. They have kids together. Maybe she thought divorcing him and getting a PPO would be enough to keep him out of her life.
We also don't know what caused this all to come to a head. Why she felt the need to call the cops on him again after 3 years since the last scenario. Maybe Zach escalated something, and she felt the need to finally bring this out into the public. You forget this last incident when she called the cops was before he lost his job, it was basically what directly led to him losing his job.
Fuck your nonsense about not being PC, how about not going the complete opposite way and automatically assuming she has the nefarious agenda when she was the one being abused. You think your take is better because you think I'm being reflexively PC, when your take is just reflexively anti-PC because you clearly think being PC is so wrong.
August 2nd, 2018 at 12:46 PM ^
It's well-known that there are myriad reasons why victims of DV are conflicted about leaving their abuser. The fact that he is the sole breadwinner in a household with two small children is a big one. Not to mention outright fear for one's life (see Simpson, Orenthal). Also one presumes there was a reason she married him in the first place--perhaps she once loved him and hoped he would change back to that guy.
All of the "myriad reasons why victims of DV are conflicted about leaving their abuser" are completely irrelevant in the case of Courtney Smith. Let's get this straight, okay? SHE LEFT HIM. She got a divorce, and a PPO.
There is only one question now; she didn't do what could have been done, to get Zach fired by OSU. She did the opposite. On her own, of her own volition as she was represented by her lawyer(s), she seems to have done everything she could, to see to it that Zach did NOT lose his job.
That is the issue. That is the question I have for anyone who is focused on whether Zach Smith should have been fired sooner. And it is the only question in this ugly, sorry tale that involves Coach Meyer.
Let's also remember that this guy was a psycho and out of control.
Zach was stalking her and threatening her even after the divorce. Can you imagine how afraid she would be if he knew she ratted him out to the police and actively tried to get him fired? It is obvious that she was still very frightened of him and probably didn't want to throw more fuel on that fire. I'm not saying that this is the only thing because it's very possible that the child support comes in as an influencing factor as well, but this guy was a psycho while he had the job. All of her moves have been defensive ones that were meant to protect her and the kids - even the ones that eventually got Zach fired. I think she was pretty afraid of what he would do if he felt like she went after him and I can't blame her for that one bit.
Are you just conveniently ignoring the fact that she texted Meyer's wife and other people associated with the program about the abuse?
Besides, as you've acknowledged, Courtney Smith reported the abuse to the police, obtained a protection order, and got a divorce. These are the things a DV survivor would normally do to protect herself from further abuse. Trying to get the abuser fired from his job has nothing to do with that, so the fact that she "didn't do what could have been done to get Zach fired by OSU" is irrelevant.
Another factor here is that Meyer lied about his knowledge of the 2015 assaults at the Big Ten media day. Maybe she felt the lie made her look bad, or maybe she feels an obligation to set the public record straight, or maybe it just pissed her off, whatever--but if Meyer hadn't denied knowing about the 2015 incidents then there would neither have been any need for McMurphy to interview her about whether Meyer knew or not, nor any lie for her to expose.
It's like Buckeye John Ross said. Meyer was dealt a shitty hand, but Meyer made it worse by not handling it by the book and then really screwed himself by lying about it. Armchair quarterbacking what Courtney Smith did or didn't do is really beside the point.
...Or maybe, the simple reason that Courtney Smith's entire course of conduct has changed 180 degrees since Zach was fired, was because she no longer needed to be part of protecting Zach's paycheck (and support payments).
It makes no sense, that Courtney Smith was suffering in silence for many years and said nothing publicly because she feared even more violent retribution from Zach. Because if that were the case, why is she becoming such a media figure now?
No; the one thing that has changed in her life is that her husband is no longer getting an OSU paycheck, taking home something like $20,000 a month. (We don't know what her support take-home was because her divorce file was sealed with her cooperation, right?)
It makes not sense that Courtney Smith was suffering in silence for many years and said nothing publicly because she feared even more violent retribution from Zach.
Again, as you yourself pointed out above, she (i) reported ZS' conduct to the police, (ii) obtained a protection order (which requires her to have testified about the conduct to the court under oath);, and (iii) filed a divorce proceeding, which more than likely also contained allegations of domestic violence. As you did not point out, she also directly informed Shelley Meyer about the abuse, and in discussing it with Lindsey Voltolini, was told that ZS denied the allegations to Urban Meyer (thus giving CS every reason to believe that Urban Meyer had been informed of the allegations).
And so yes, your premise that "Courtney Smith was suffering in silence" does not make sense--because the essential facts of the scenario show that she was very vocal about her suffering.
Courtney Smith's entire course of conduct has changed 180 degrees since Zach was fired ... why is she becoming such a media figure now?
Again, this is totally irrelevant. Courtney Smith's behavior is not at issue. Courtney Smith's reasons for "becoming a media figure" are not at issue. Assuming she is telling the truth--and seeing as her statements are corroborated by extensive text messages and other documentation there really is no serious doubt on that point--then what difference does it make why she has chosen to share this information or why she may have not been public about it in the past? Your insinuation that she must have some kind of improper motive is baseless, and even if she does have an improper motive, that still doesn't change the fact that Urban failed to handle the situation property and then lied about it.
Meyer is on paid administrative leave because of his own acts and omissions, and if he winds up being fired then him will have only himself to blame. That this never would have happened if CS hadn't spoken up about it is neither here nor there.
"Courtney Smith suffering in silence for years" was not, and is not, my premise.
I'm certain that the domestic abuse, and the disintegration of her marriage and the strain of raising children under such circumstances, all caused her great suffering.
But look -- I am not backing off this point -- Courtney Smith did not expose her ex-husband's malfeasance for her own good, or the good of her children, or for the good of domestic violence victims the world over.
Zach Smith got outed, simply because he was in court on a criminal trespassing charge. He appeared in July; the incident had occurred in May. In all that time, Courtney Smith had not gone to the press. News of that court appearance broke in July, and then after that, Courtney filed for a civil protection order.
Three days later, Zach Smith is fired by Ohio State.
Then, and only then, do we see the news break that revolves around Courtney Smith. Her text messages find their way into the press, and she does a televised interview.
Something changed. What changed dramatically, and overnight, was the fact that Zach got fired, and immediately thereafter, Courtney Smith changed her relationship with the media.
This is a shitty take.
I was trying to reply to section 1.8...if that wasn't clear.
Oh, sorry.
August 2nd, 2018 at 12:21 PM ^
Honest question here, though I know I'll get flamed for asking as an OSU fan... how is this similar to PSU and MSU? Where the police were not involved and people looked the other way to avoid a perpetrator being arrested, let alone fired. The police were involved from the beginning and did not press charges when Courtney Smith did not want to pursue it. They still have the power to do so if they feel it's needed. Urban did not try to keep her quiet to protect the program. He did not look the other way. He and his wife tried to help the Smiths on many occasions. Should he have conducted a citizen's arrest? I honestly want to know, Brian, what should Urban have done? Fired Smith? On what grounds? That everybody "knew" Smith was abusive, even though the police didn't think there was enough to arrest him? Courtney herself said she was trying to protect Smith's job and had the police report sealed. He, after all, was financially supporting the family and maybe she hoped things would get better. So is Urban supposed to step in and play God in their marriage and say, "you know what, Courtney, I'm going to fire Zach now in hopes that him being jobless will make him less likely to abuse you and will fix your marriage"? What was that going to do for her situation? It's not like it would have made it suddenly easier on her and the kids. Should he have called the police and insisted they arrested Smith? How does that work when the wife is pushing for nothing to happen? Comparing this to a situation where children were raped in the Penn State locker room and the authorities were never involved is immoral and disgusting, Brian. You and this blog are better than that.
August 2nd, 2018 at 12:31 PM ^
I was hasty when I posted about this yesterday, and you raise some good questions - at least based on my superficial understanding of this specific situation.
It's sometimes harmful to DV survivors when their abusers go to jail and/or lose their jobs, because the abuser's income is lost. I don't know what Meyer should have done here, but these situations are often complicated in a way that makes them even more stomach-churning than one might initially expect.
August 2nd, 2018 at 12:32 PM ^
A leader's job is to protect human beings - especially women - title IX. Urban Meyer's job is to be a leader. He needs to know. It's his job to know. That is Brian's point. Then Urban Meyer did not tell the truth to the media when asked.
August 2nd, 2018 at 12:38 PM ^
The catch is that firing an abuser isn't necessarily protective of his victim. It might have been here. I don't know. But it isn't always.
rkfischer, I agree with you 100%. A leader protects. But I don't know what that protection should have been. Firing Smith wouldn't have protected her. He can't remove Courtney or Zach from the home. He can't call the police to intervene because they already checked into it. I don't have an answer for what Urban "should" have done in this situation. It's so messy, so complex, that almost any choice you make is wrong in some way.
The university has people whose jobs are, for better or for worse, to determine what should be done in the case of employees who are involved in what is termed "intimate violence" in OSU's guidelines of sexual misconduct. Urban and Shelly Meyer should have, as employees of the university, informed the people in that office in 2015 that they had received a credible report of domestic abuse by an employee of OSU and let those people do their jobs.
Here are OSU's HR guidelines on sexual misconduct. It's entirely clear that both Meyers were required to report.
https://hr.osu.edu/wp-content/uploads/policy115.pdf
Here are the relevant sections:
On duty to report:
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In addition to the requirement of reporting incidents of sexual assault, the following members of the university community have an additional obligation to report all other incidents of sexual misconduct, when they receive a disclosure of sexual misconduct or become aware of information that would lead a reasonable person to believe that sexual misconduct may have occurred involving anyone covered under this policy. These individuals must report the incident within five work days of becoming aware of such information:
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Any human resource professional (HRP);
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Anyone who supervises faculty, staff, students, or volunteers;
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Chair/director; and
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Faculty member.
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On domestic violence's inclusion in the policy:
Conduct that would meet the definition of a felony or misdemeanor crime of violence committed by the complainant’s current or former spouse or intimate partner, a person with whom the complainant shares a child in common, a person who is or has cohabitated with the complainant as a spouse or intimate partner, or individual similarly situated to a spouse under domestic or family violence law, or anyone else protected under the domestic or family violence law of the jurisdiction in which the offense occurred. An individual need not be charged with or convicted of a criminal offense to be found responsible for domestic violence pursuant to this policy.
All such acts of relationship violence are forms of sexual misconduct under this policy.
Good follow-up on the HR guidelines. I need to do some digging and find what the guidelines were when the event happened in 2015. I know OSU, and likely most universities, have updated their guidelines after the Baylor and MSU issues. I am very interested to know what Gene Smith did or didn't know as the consistent stance so far is that "everyone knew". And again, even assuming Gene or somebody else knew, I don't what the OSU Athletic Department should or shouldn't do in that scenario with police already involved. I don't believe that firing Smith in that situation would have done Courtney much good and in fact may have made her situation worse. She was after all trying to keep it quiet so that Smith would not be fired. What a mess.
I don't think there's any evidence Gene Smith knew about the domestic violence, aside from probably knowing the things that Ramzy laid out that "everyone knew," i.e., that Zach Smith was a mess personally and an asshole protected by an important grandfather. If he had known about the domestic violence incidents, I'd assume that it was widely known enough that it would have leaked.
Do you know that they didn't at any point? I'm assuming that will come out soon. But I know what I would do in a similar situation... If I knew of a subordinate that was involved in potential domestic violence, but also knew that the police had been involved and had not pressed charges, I would stay out of it. I think most people would. Many have made the argument about Urban's newly signed contract having language that they must report a wide variety of situations related to "intimate violence", but this event happened three years before he had any such language in his contract. I don't know that Urban had any legal or contractual obligation to take this to anybody once police had been involved.
Universities have spent a huge amount of money on employee training around sexual misconduct reporting to inform different classes of employees what their duties are. Generally, the impression that training gives is that, regardless of circumstances, if they're told directly of events that fall under the terms of the policy (and this is why Shelly Meyer is in more trouble from the university than Urban), even if the police have been involved, they have to report to the university.
Now, I can imagine a situation where Shelly Meyer is fired for failing to inform HR of a direct report, and Urban is suspended for some indefinite time with an official reprimand. Whether he would accept that, and the ensuing impression that he allowed his wife to take the fall, I don't think anyone has any idea.
If the Meyers did report at some point, they're probably in the clear from the university HR standpoint, as they met their stated employment duties. But then there are huge questions about the OSU HR department and their actions.
It's also a good point about when the policy was revised and what those revisions were.
August 2nd, 2018 at 12:35 PM ^
It's not the same in terms of severity in the actions of the individual. But that's not the point. The point is these three cases represent a systemic issue that is plaguing the NCAA: schools intentionally creating a system and culture to prevent the flow of information and disclosure of misconduct by players and staff. Willfully protecting yourself from anything you don't want to hear is exactly what allows these guys to not only avoid punishment, but even worse, it gives them an arena and shelter to continue with their actions unabated.
Simply put, until the NCAA and universities start revising their operating systems and culture, the potential for Nassars et al. still exist. Urban and Gene Smith, but they shouldn't be rewarded for their bad guy being slightly less bad than MSU's and PSU's.
Again, what should they have done? Urban didn't prevent the flow of information from anyone. Both Courtney's and Zach's families knew what was going on. The police were involved. Is it in Courtney's interest for Urban to take Smith's actions public? She was still married to him, with kids in the home, and had thus far chosen to not press charges or leave him. So at what point and how should the OSU Athletic Department stepped in?
If Urban Meyer did indeed send his "life coach" and his mentor to talk Courtney out of pressing charges in 2009, like Courtney said he did, then he should be fired! No questions asked! If that is the truth then IMO Urban Meyer is a piece of shit human being who has no business leading young men and being one of the most influential people in his state (in this case Florida or Ohio)! What he should have done in the first place was in the very least not hire Zach Smith back to OSU when he knew that he was beating his wife! He hired Smith back, so any skeletons that were in Zach's closet are shared with Urban's closet now. "What should he have done?" you ask, he should've never hired that POS back in the first place, and he should have never have lied to protect Zach, Courtney, Bruce, himself or THE Ohio State University! This culture of "win at all costs no matter who it harms" is complete bullshit and needs to stop! Go ahead Denver, keep protecting your golden boy savior of a coach, he's as big of a piece of shit as Zach Smith is, and if I were an OSU fan I wouldn't want him leading young men that are on the team that I hold dear to my heart.
It’s spelled out in his contract what he should have done. Report it to his superiors. That’s it. He knew about it. He didn’t follow university guidelines.
Had he reported it, he then could have worked with/or taken the advice of the administration to either fire Smith or keep him on staff. Either way, he’d be clean because he followed the guidelines spelled out in his contract, whether that was in his old contract or new.
He didn’t follow protocol, then lied.
Police involvement, Mrs.Smith, Urban’s wife, Earl Bruce, etc. doesn’t matter. He had a responsibility to report. He didn’t. It’s just now a matter of whether OSU deems it a fireable offense.
I don't know that his contract in 2015 had any verbiage outlining reporting a subordinate that commits domestic violence to anybody within the Athletic Department. I don't think there was. OSU has updated and added terminology in the wake of other school's issues in more recent contracts.
August 2nd, 2018 at 10:12 PM ^
The law almost never dictates what should be done, only what shouldn’t.
Amazingly, this is one case in which what should have been done was outlined. Meyer failed that.
What should have been done is interesting from a purely theoretical standpoint. I think he should have fired the guy in 2009, not to protect Courtney Smith (even though you keep trying to pretend Meyer has a duty to her personally), but to protect himself from having to put up with this kind of thing down the line.
But what should have been done is a separate issue. The issue is what was done, which was morally repugnant and deficient per the school’s Title IX requirements.
August 2nd, 2018 at 12:43 PM ^
WTF are you talking about? People get fired all the time for personal conduct outside of work that is detrimental to his/her workplace environment.
"Do the right thing and you'll never have to second guess yourself". That's not called "playing God". It's more like being a good person/coach/friend that this supposed God would want you to be.
I don't believe theological gods and stuff so maybe I'm off-base?
Again, how would firing Smith have helped Courtney? Should every job fire every person who does something shitty? Should Harbaugh have not let Grant Perry back on the team after his sentencing?
Why are you so fixated on what happens to his wife after he's let go? Urban has an obligation to that pit stain of a university to report the situation and take action to remove that asshole from ever being associated with the school.
Honestly, if he does that way back when, we probably aren't having this conversation.
Should every employer fire an employee when they get a speeding ticket? No but if you physically assault your fucking wife, you should be in jail and I don't know how you can coach football inside a jail cell? You tell me...
Also you may want to think before antagonizing Brian. He's simply saying the charade that Urban didn't know as he stated recently is complete crap and if he truly didn't know, he should've.
The key statement to me:
No but if you physically assault your fucking wife, you should be in jail and I don't know how you can coach football inside a jail cell? You tell me...
I don't know how Urban could have control over that whatsoever when police declined to arrest Smith. I'm fixated on what would or wouldn't have been best for Courtney because if I were in Urban's situation I would have lost sleep wondering what was the best course of action for her and her kids. I don't think there is a perfect answer for Urban in regards to Courtney and the kids.
Brian is right to say Urban should know. Urban should and likely does know everything that happens in his program. Brian is wrong to say Urban enabled Smith in the way that Penn State enabled Sandusky. Paterno and others declined to involve police when there was smoke about a child molester. Urban didn't even have the choice to ignore calling the police as they were already involved and chose not to arrest Smith. That's a gross, hyperbolic exaggeration to feign outrage over a situation that Brian is likely happy about because the coach of his favorite team's rival, which has beaten his favorite team without fail, is potentially going to be fired because of uninformed rage online. Brian is an intelligent, passionate writer and is better than such a lazy, disgusting analogy. I've been reading articles here for a long time and because there is consistently good work on MGoBlog, I've become accustomed to holding the writers and the readers here to a high standard. Michigan fans are typically more intelligent and reasoned than other fanbases and I don't think I am wrong to expect better takes than that from this group.
August 2nd, 2018 at 10:21 PM ^
Urban Meyer has no duty to Courtney Smith.
Suppose Zach Smith murdered a stranger and Meyer knew about it. Are you arguing that he should not report a murder because that would be bad for Courtney Smith?
He has no duty to the woman. He had a duty to the school, which necessitated disclosure. He has a duty to himself, which necessitated not tarnishing his own reputation for Zach Smith. He has a bunch of duties, but no one except you is pretending that he has one to Courtney Smith.
You’re doing this because he’s your guy. It’s probably not even conscious. But you’re the only person unreasonably framing the issue in this way, and you should take a step back and realize why you are.
It doesn't take an OSU homer to make the observation that the LAST thing that Courtney Smith wanted was to get Zach fired.
In the midst of so much virtue-signaling over the plight of domestic abuse victims, I think that it is a perfectly reasonable observation to make; that it was not incumbent upon Urban Meyer to fire Zach Smith for matters that did not constitute criminal wrongdoing, and it would have done no good for Courtney Smith or her children to fire the man who was supporting them.
Urban Meyer "is not my guy," and yet I get that part.
I do accept your point, that institutional rules at an institution like Ohio State require disclosure under similar circumstances. But I sure would want, and I would expect, a very careful investigation before firing Meyer for a "reporting" failure under circumstances wherein the alleged victim had already gone to police; already had obtained a lawyer, and a divorce and a PPO; and by her own actions had indicated that she did not want publicity or public discipline of her ex-husband by his employer.
I wasn't replying to you, but I'm willing to talk.
What may or may not have been beneficial to Courtney Smith is entirely irrelevant to the actions of Urban Meyer or his wife, whose name escapes me. That's my point in response to DenverBuckeye, who keeps beating that drum, in a clear effort to impute good motives on the Meyers' bad actions. Meyer had duties, which did not include one to Courtney but did include one which required him to report even if doing so would lead to a catastrophe for her. The reporting requirement is drafted in such as a way so that the mandatory reporter is not left to decide what he should do. Meyer did not have to weigh the pros and cons, or consider secondary or tertiary effects - he had to report.
Regarding your comments: odd that you would reply to me citing virtue signaling, since my post explicitly stated that I though Meyer should have fired Zach Smith long ago strictly to save himself from this eventuality. If I've signaled anything, it's that Meyer should not give a fuck about Courtney Smith, but should have been smart enough to see how this would damage him.
It's also interesting that you frame the issue of hirings and firings solely in terms of criminal wrongdoing. Meyer could have fired Smith for any reason or none at all. People are fired on the basis of allegations all the time. Perhaps you can argue against the morality of that truth, but it doesn't make it untrue. The 2009 incident, which Meyer admittedly was aware of, would have been more than enough to warrant a firing, even without leading to charges.
If you want to be very charitable to Meyer, he could have just not hired Smith when he took over at OSU.
You are right that the reporting violation should be thoroughly investigated. I'd argue that he should be fired anyways, even if OSU has to swallow his contract for lack of cause, because:
1. He has displayed a lack of moral character, which is important when coaching student-athletes. I don't expect this rationale, but I would hope M would do so in similar circumstances;
2. He has displayed a lack of intelligence by throwing himself on Zach Smith's grenade; and
3. He has brought disrepute on his employer.
August 6th, 2018 at 12:56 PM ^
Reader71, per Meyer, he did report and from Zach Smith's statement (for what it's worth), Gene Smith was aware. If shown to be the case, then that covers a lot of the moral question for me. I do not judge people on a moral basis for allowing an employee who has not been charged with a crime to stay employed. Especially if Meyer's superiors were fully informed and came to the same conclusion.
I do think that your #2 point is very valid. OSU fans have been saying for years that Zach Smith was mediocre coach and should be let go. Plus his public antics on Twitter showed a lack of maturity and the scuttlebutt around Columbus has always been that he's a drunk and a screw-up. And that was before this whole mess. Meyer had a ticking time bomb on his hands with that knucklehead.
Your point #3 is curious to me. This is entirely subjective because it's hard to say that Meyer brought disrepute on the University if he followed any guidelines that he was subject to. If you want to stretch it say that him allowing Zach to keep a job brings disrepute, well ok I guess. But it's still a stretch and on a person-to-person basis would likely rely on what your opinion of OSU football is. If you say that he's brought disrepute because he lied at Media Days, this is also murky. I'd love to hear Meyer be questioned on this. Now that it's been shown that McMurphy has edited his original post multiple times and that his first iterations (which were prior to Media Days and updated after) stated that Zach was "arrested for felonious domestic assault" which was not accurate, it largely depends on what exactly Meyer was answering. His answer was very vague to begin with, which is typical of Meyer (and Harbaugh and many other successful coaches), and could really be taken either way. If you had a preexisting negative opinion of OSU football, you likely look at it as a downright lie. If you had a preexisting positive opinion of OSU football, you likely took it as Meyer correctly, if vaguely, answering what had been reported about Zach Smith in 2015. If you were neutral towards OSU football, it likely depends on how much you've actually looked into the story.
See, I think Meyer would disagree with you on whether or not he has a duty to Courtney Smith. It's interesting to me that people argue that whether Zach was charged or not, Meyer had a duty to "do something" to protect her from being serially abused. Brian himself has made this argument on this site. But on the other hand, you are saying that Meyer had no duty to preserve Zach's job even though Courtney clearly did not want to affect her husbands employment? It can't be both, either Meyer had a duty to help the Smith family or he didn't
And your analogy that if Zach murdered somebody should Meyer not report it for Courtney's sake is being sensationalist. Meyer would obviously report it to the police, which in this case were already involved. And in that case, no one would care if Meyer reported it to the school or not, just if he contacted police. But everyone wants to gloss over the fact that police were involved with the Smiths many times and skip straight to some variation of Meyer having a duty to perform. First, it's he had a duty to the school. And if it turns out that the school was actually aware of the whole situation, well then Meyer and the school had a duty to Courtney Smith, the police and the justice system be damned. And then were back to your first line.
Honestly, I'm much more horrified by the internet mob and the lack of reasoned thought in the narrative of this whole situation than I am about "my guy" being targeted. The thought that down the road someone would try to target me if one of my subordinates was simply accused of domestic violence is disgusting and mildly terrifying. And I also can't stand being told that bias on one side of this ongoing discussion (that of OSU fans) is awful and shouldn't be allowed while bias on the other side (rival fanbases, those who delight in seeing a blue-blood program go down) is perfectly acceptable. EVEYRONE is affected by bias to some degree, but I've always tried to be reasoned in my responses anyway, especially here. And I don't think my statements have been lacking calm or reason. As I've stated previously, I have a lot of respect for Michigan as a school, program, and fanbase and it is very frustrating to see this site and its community jump on board the "Meyer is evil!!!!!" bandwagon so quickly and easily.
August 2nd, 2018 at 12:46 PM ^
If Urban were me he would have driven over there and put his foot through the front of Smiths grill on principle.
After that you call the cops, fire him and make sure his wife is safe.
Instead he did nothing.. you know, because that's what real men do. In that way he is very similar to Joe Pa. He is a fucking coward.
Yes, Urban should go physically assault Smith, then call the police to come (again? I guess to arrest Urban for assault this time?), and then remove Courtney from her own home which she had thus far refused to leave. Got it.
You've clearly never had someone you love beaten up by a mouth breathing monster. I find that shocking based on the company you keep as an OSU fan. But yeah it's pretty simple.
I want a PPO, from Michigan fans like you. In what sort of ghetto world is it acceptable to employ vigilante violence in response to domestic violence? Is that the Law of the Jungle? In law school, I never saw a Restatement of the Law of the Jungle. Or maybe it is Shariya Law, which is another area of the law in which I have no experience.
+1, Denver Buckeye.
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