Mailbag: Slowing Down Offenses, Henry At NT, Smith Vs Green, #1 Jersey, Onside Piracy Comment Count

Brian

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Brian,

As I sit here watching Missouri and Auburn roll up and down the field, with the only defense being turnovers, I'm wondering what can be done to curtail the wave of offense in football so that defenses have a chance again.  Maybe people are fine with all of the offense, but it seems like it is so tough to play defense (get held on nearly every play, called one in 30 times) that I would love to see something to help even things up without drastically changing the game (such as 3 downs instead of 4 or having to go 15 yards for a first down instead of 10, etc.).  I think I figured out a simple change that may help:  with offenses spread out to make one on one match-ups all over the place, what if there is a rule that all of the offensive players have to line up between the numbers?  This wouldn't be such a drastic change and it would allow defenses to be a little less spread out at the snap.

What do you think?

A loyal reader,
Ppudge

Despite the attempt to not seem drastic, that seems kind of drastic. That would affect a lot of teams from spread to, uh, concentrate. And I'm not even sure what the impact would be. If teams just stack two guys up at the numbers is that better or worse? It doesn't seem to have a huge impact. Apologies, but thumbs down.

If we're going to change football to slow down the offenses, my suggestion is to simplify and liberalize pass interference by making it a (nearly) arms-only offense. I can't stand it when a defender gets nailed for the WR trying to run through him; some of these back shoulder things are basically prayer ducks relying on the fact that the DB isn't looking and hoping he'll run over the DB. In the hypothetical world where I am king, whiskey is free and pass interference is a thing that can only happen when a defensive back uses his arms in an unfair fashion or blows a guy up early. No more of this stuff where the DB is running in a direction and the WR changes his path such that the DB is now impeding the WR. You have a right to your momentum. In exchange, offenses can have full NFL penalties for flagrant you-tackled-that-guy offenses.

Not that any of this will do much to slow down Auburn, which just runs and runs and runs and runs. They beat Alabama and their QB threw for 97 yards. They got outgained by 100 yards, but they also ran for 5.7 yards a carry against Alabama. It boggles the mind.

Moving Willie Henry?

Brian,

OK, there are many candidates to play the DT next year, but few candidates to play NT if Pipkins doesn't come back strong after injury. You and others are very high on Henry at DT, but I haven't seen him mentioned at a possible NT. His weight and height look fine, but is there something about his build that makes him not well suited to play the nose?

Rod

Henry is a very plausible NT with his size and strength. Michigan lists him at 6'2", 306, which is about ideal NT size, and we've seen him throw away more than one OL this year. In an ideal world, Pipkins is full-go by late spring and playing well in fall camp, allowing Henry to continue doing his thing at three-tech.

But if that's not happening I bet we do see Henry slide over to the nose. Michigan's other options there are Richard Ash and redshirt freshman Maurice Hurst Jr, which doesn't sound too appealing. At three tech, Strobel, Poggi, and Glasgow are returning and Michigan has the option of bumping either Godin or Wormley down from SDE with Beyer the projected starter there.

A Henry move is 50/50 right now.

[After the JUMP: Smith vs Green, annual #1 jersey speculation, and evaluating a potential onside kick in The Game.]

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Green was getting more PT for a reason. Was that recruiting hype? [Fuller]

Green or Smith?

MGoBlog,

Am I the only one who saw De'Veon Smith as clearly better than Derrick Green?  Smith ran harder, broke more tackles, and was more decisive than Green.  Green was billed as a power back, but rarely did we see that power.  Green had far more opportunities than Smith and never got going.  There are several examples, but his goal line carry against Ohio State was especially soft.

When these two came out, Green was the higher rated player but that seemed to be more based on his size and speed combination than his film. Smith played in Ohio, a higher level of competition than Virginia, and was more productive.  Remember Kevin Grady a few years ago, 5 star recruit, lots of hype.  Remember who played over him all those years?  Mike Hart, 3 star recruit.  I think we have a similar situation on our hands, where the lower rated guy is actually the better player. 

Sincerely,
Jon from Cincinnati

It's hard to tell based on just a handful of carries for each that didn't get snowed under at the snap because of OL/blitz issues. We're basing this on not much more than De'Veon Smith running through a couple of bad tackle attempts from Ohio State and Green not doing so. The jury is still out on both.

That said, I tend to agree. Smith has a Hart-like leg drive that will serve him well in the YAC department and Green does seem to go down on first contact almost all the time. Smith's run through more tackles in fewer opportunities, and if you'll remember that was his calling card as a high schooler. At this point I prefer Smith.

That doesn't mean Kevin Grady should be invoked here, though. Green's already shown better vision and quicker feet than Grady ever did. Green's been able to find backside creases and get to them; Grady just blasted forward every time he got the ball no matter what was in store for him. He's shown some promise and if he can enter fall camp at the same weight he played as  a high school senior, good things could be in the offing there. This kind of offensive line is the worst situation for power backs to be in.

We'll get a more definitive resolution next year when the two figure to platoon for about 90% of Michigan's tailback carries.

Derring-do!

Brian,

Always enjoy reading your game theory bits, but I was wondering about something my friends and I discussed in the stands. Do you think Michigan should have gone for a surprise onside kick after they tied it at 35 with 5 minutes left? I guess it's possible that OSU was expecting it. But the success rate on those tends to be high, we couldn't stop them, and even failure gives you the ball back down 7 with 4 minutes left instead of 2 (plus the same red zone defense opportunities you'd have in either situation).

Or would failure have led to leaving the OSU offense too much time after Michigan potentially tied the game again at 42? I was just curious what you thought since you're always on top of the math on these decisions. Keep up the good work, Go Blue.

Eddie

This did not occur to me at the time but does seem like a pretty good idea. We saw MSU attempt an onside kick in the Big Ten championship game, one of those sideline popups. MSU almost certainly should have recovered it but balls bounce funny and the thing managed to get out of bounds at the OSU 41. In exchange for at least a 50% shot at a bonus possession, MSU gave up 16 yards of field position. That is a quality gamble.

If Michigan had something like that in their back pocket, and chances are they do, that would have been an excellent spot to pull it out. You seize the initiative late on success; on failure you haven't given up much and actually increase your chances of getting the ball back for a final possession. Maybe you give yourself time to try to force a field goal once OSU gets in a goal-to-go situation.

You decrease your chance of holding OSU scoreless, yes, but what were those chances? With both offenses moving up and down the field—especially given OSU's ability to hand it to Hyde for 7 yards whenever they wanted—field position becomes much less important than who's got the ball. I say put on the eyepatch and board that kick return team. Hyyarrr!

Number one.

Brian,

Do you think there's any chance Funchess wears #1 next year? I'm not sure if this has been covered elsewhere. I'd say it's time to bring the jersey out of retirement--and I think Braylon Edwards might agree.

Go Blue,
David Cassleman

It would be tough to change Funchess's number two straight years after he's become a prominent member, especially since he's got a legends jersey. Or at least you'd think so. I thought it would be tough to change Jeremy Gallon's number from 10, or Jordan Kovacs's number from 32. I was incorrect about both of those.

Even if they decide to stop Funchess number rotation they should just hand the damn #1 out now, though. Give it to someone, and stop with the semi-retirement of the thing. Darboh or Chesson or…

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…yeah. For real. I may have an irrational attachment to short guys.

Comments

WolverineHistorian

December 10th, 2013 at 1:57 PM ^

I remember Michigan doing the surprise onside kick just once. And it was Lloyd, surprisingly, who made the call. 1998 against Notre Dame in South Bend, Tom Brady's first ever start. We tried it in the second quarter and easily recovered it. Although I don't think we did anything with it and the defense completely collapsed in the second half. I can't remember who recovered it. I guess trying the onside kick last week wouldn't have been much of a risk. OSU was shredding our D all day with 3 play drives anyway. 20 yards wasn't going to make much of a difference.

gbdub

December 10th, 2013 at 2:39 PM ^

The time left is an interesting consideration as well. Even with an unsuccessful onside kick, the offense will probably need to get a couple first downs to get into comfortable field goal range. So you'll have your chance to stop them, especially considering they will likely play conservatively.

And if you fail to stop them, you'll almost certainly have some time left to respond. On the other hand, if you give the other team 4-5 minutes left and 80 yards to go, they have a good chance to make their possession the last of the game if they choose (which is obviously disastrous if they score).

The FannMan

December 10th, 2013 at 11:27 PM ^

I think it was against Illinois.  I recall it being at home, we were kicking toward the north endzone.  We hit a high kick into a gap in the kickoff coverage on about the 35, toward our sideline.  It was a lot like what MSU tried, except it worked because it was Illinois.

We might be talking about two different kicks, or I might be dead wrong cause it happened 18 years ago. 

Bando Calrissian

December 11th, 2013 at 12:15 AM ^

For some reason the Minnesota game sticks out, but it could have been Illinois. But it definitely happened at home during the 1995 or 1996 seasons. You might be right, though I seem to remember it happened towards the end of the year, and Illinois in '96 was the season opener (wasn't it to make up for PSU being added to the conference schedule?).

Jivas

December 10th, 2013 at 2:08 PM ^

Brian, I like whiskey as much as you do, but free whiskey would be a terrible idea.  Whiskey-makers wouldn't have any incentive to make a high-quality product, and so all the free whiskey would be of terrible quality.

Unless you, as King, forced them to make a small batch of top-shelf stuff just for you ... but then it wouldn't really be free, would it?

othernel

December 10th, 2013 at 2:11 PM ^

Comparing it to backup QB situation doesn't make sense since you actually WANT two RB options.  Arguing whether Green or Smith is slightly better than the other is not a good use of time since if they're both good, they'll both see the field a lot.

Anyone remember Reggie Bush and Lendale White at USC?

Don

December 10th, 2013 at 2:42 PM ^

Simple: return to the rules governing the use of hands by offensive linemen that existed until the 1970s in college and pro ball. You'd see results almost immediately.

It ain't gonna happen though, since offense sells tickets, esp. in the NFL.

SiKa7x

December 10th, 2013 at 2:49 PM ^

I'm of the opinion now that these legends numbers are going to get annoying REALLY fast. I'd rather see a monster WR wearing the #1(Funchess, who IS a WR) who terrorizes defenses than some number that SHOULD be retired and painted on or etched into some spot to remember it as a Michigan great. But reusing the numbers is so silly in that it never allows for the kids nowadays to make a name/number for themselves. All the numbers we have as legends now should be retired, and the only exception to these numbers is Woodson's #2. I'll never forget watching him take the punt back on OSU when I was a small child, and I know Mr. Peppers mentioned that he would love to wear that number also, but i would look at wearing #2 on defense as the equivalent to the #1 on offense.

jmblue

December 10th, 2013 at 3:00 PM ^

But you have to consider the flip side: before the introduction of the Legends Jersey concept, it was basically impossible for us to retire any new numbers, because we simply had too many players to be able to take any more out of circulation - we were down to 94 numbers for around 115 players.  Before Desmond was honored, no player from the '60s, '70s, '80s, '90s or '00s had been honored, because we were concerned about running out of numbers.

If a guy turns out to be a legend in his own right while wearing the jersey, then we just change the patch to have two names on it.  Not that big of a deal.  A lot of our numbers have a tradition attached to them anyway (#1, #7, #77, etc.).

 

 

SiKa7x

December 10th, 2013 at 3:13 PM ^

But other than the legends we have now I dont really think there's any others who stick out to me as having to be a legend. Clearly the 3 Heisman winners get it(although like I said w #2, its the defensive #1) should be retired, and Kramer, Wisterts, Ford, and Oosterban all deserve it. But outside of those I dont really have anyone at Michigan who stick out as dominantly as they do. Obviously #77 is a big deal around here, but its not something to retire. Its the #1 of the OL and demands excellence to be worn. #7 isnt so much a big deal to me other than its a great QB number, but I think #77 is a far bigger deal to an LT than #7 is to a QB. But this is all my opinion though. Id just hate to see current and future players be placed 2nd behind a legend when they themselves could make a new impact to a number.

maize-blue

December 10th, 2013 at 3:01 PM ^

I'm just glad we have both Green and Smith. I'm not too concerned which one is the best. I think they're close. I just want them be a great 1-2 punch.

steve sharik

December 10th, 2013 at 7:15 PM ^

I don't want to slow down the offenses. You then become like the NFL where the running game is used much less. I would simply do what the NFL does with the clock. Keep the clock running after first downs. Fewer possessions = fewer points, without making rules to curtail offensive scheme. Plus, the damn games won't take forever. As for PI, they simply have to call it by the rules, which already state that a defender is entitled to his space. By rule, if a receiver runs into a defender, it's not PI. The defender simply can't use his hands to impress progress. What they should do is start calling offensive PI as often as it happens.

DoubleB

December 10th, 2013 at 7:22 PM ^

The first thing that would dramatically help defenses is calling stuff that's already on the books: linemen downfield on a lot of these run/pass calls, WRs blocking on pass plays before the ball is caught, holding, illegal shifts and motions (especially for hurry up teams), standing over the ball for substitutions (to refs credit that's been better enforced this year).

Secondly, as the poster mentioned PI is terribly called at every level of football. And the penalty is monstrous. The reward shouldn't for a crappy underthrown ball should never be a first down.

But ultimately defenses and coordinators need to do a better job of teaching. WRs running downfield all by themselves catching bombs is a mistake of coaching and execution, not one of the rules. Michigan State makes you earn your yardage. They make offenses make good and even great plays. Too many teams give away big and small plays with bad eyes, bad technique, and bad tackling (how many DBs try to tackle bigger RBs around the chest--it's effin stupid--go low and take the legs out). That's not Art Briles or anyone else's fault. 

I dumped the Dope

December 10th, 2013 at 7:35 PM ^

This is a really good problem to have...two guys who have done reasonably well in their freshman year.

That all of our hopes are not tied to a single guy (ala Gurley from GA) makes us a much better team.   I can't imagine the beating these guys take when they are getting a game's worth of carries and so I think its awesome to have excellent options.

I like the Power running backs.  If you go back a ways into the Schembechler era, the game was super run-heavy and so it made sense to have a speedy guy back there as every so often they'd break a run wide open and that was an immediate touchdown that changed an often deadlocked game.  I saw it Saturday after Saturday.  But now we pass the ball more, and so I think the need for a RB who's faster than the DBs is less important.  First step, yes, burst, yes, vision, yes, are all needed.  I'd rather have a heavier-built human taking all the pounding.  The law of averages says they can probably stand up better, witness Venric Mark.

I hope the OL can be solidified early and we just stick with 5 Guys come Hell or high water, save for injuries.  I think Michigan State this year showed how that can happen, that the same guys working together, will develop together and show progress thru the season.

At first I thought the jersey thing was cool, don't just retire a jersey for infinity, nobody remembers after about 40 years who it even was.  But the switching mid-career is a little weird and it confuses the heck out of me.  I rather like the "mystery" jerseys like 77 and 1.  Everyone knows who wore those too...give them out every 5 years or so when a player is really special.  The fact that *all* of the legend jerseys have to be on the field every year cheapens it up a little bit if you ask me.  The mystery jerseys are a lot more "special" in my mind than the Legend jerseys at this point.  I realize there's a scion of Athletic Department commercialism brewing with the Legends jerseys, instead of being purely organized by the coaching staff.  That said I have a lot more respect for the coaching staff than the Ath Dept leadership.

I would also think the coaching staff would place a premium on a dominating NT who can command double teams.  Its like an extra player on the field.  In my mind the advantage is as big as a lockdown cornerback as it frees up a safety to go run-support or help LBs out in short coverage.  Based on that you'd think there would be a pile of extra guys who were groomed for NT but could also play DT if necessary.  I probably don't see the big picture here but it makes sense right now.

Vasav

December 10th, 2013 at 7:33 PM ^

Defensive holding is already a penalty, and the it's already a penalty for straight tackling a receiver ("targeting a defenseless player") so what does PI give you at all? If someone can be pushed around by someone else while running full speed down the field, they need to hit the weights. Also: this is football. Pushing people is a part of the game.

NCBlue22

December 10th, 2013 at 8:03 PM ^

To the first question about helping the defense- One of my peeves watching football lately is the fact that the QB is allowed to chuck the ball out of bounds (past the line of scrimmage) when outside the pocket.  To me, this is stupid.  In essence, the defense wins, but instead of a hypothetical 5-yard loss, it's back to the line of scrimmage. 

To help the defense, the rule could change that a receiver has to be at least in the vicinity of the throw.  Basically, remove the in the pocket or outside of the pocket distinction.  Maybe this would be considered radical, mainly b/c it is so ingrained in football (how many times have you heard an announcer say "great play by throwing it away")...but to me it is a pretty asinine rule that the QB can just chuck it out of bounds without attempting to complete the pass. 

samdrussBLUE

December 11th, 2013 at 12:25 AM ^

Don't like that. Still a zero yard play for the defense and defenses will always take a zero yard play. I don't like handing out more penalties for that. The PI change would be something that goes from a positive play for the offense to zero yards on the play which always favors the defense. I am in favor of changes that do this. Not those that turn zero yard plays into penalties.

Space Coyote

December 11th, 2013 at 12:08 AM ^

Problem is, a lot of the things to limit offense are no longer allowed because of safety. Allow hits on WR coming over the middle. Allow defenders to actually tackle someone near the sideline. Let the defense actually hit the QB.

But I do agree that PI could be an area of change. Also the person that talking about intentional grounding. On top of that, you could limit rub routes. Be more strict with illegal player downfield on screens and package plays. 

My personal opinion is that it all comes in ebs and flows. Eventually defenses will catch up to a lot of the new concepts, scoring will go down relatively (they'll still be higher because of pace) and then the next thing will come around and we'll kind of go through this process again.

west2

December 11th, 2013 at 10:14 AM ^

Fox Sports is reporting that Mack Brown will step down by weeks end from Texas.  Likely the rumors that Nick Saban is heading to Texas are true.   WOW that will shake things up!!  Wonder if some of the Alabama recruits will flip when that happens?

west2

December 11th, 2013 at 11:13 AM ^

The Saban-Brown rumors have been swirling for 2 months actually.  Whats interesting is that none of the key people are denying these rumors including Saban.  It would be easy to just step up, whether its true or not, and say no the rumors are untrue.   Thats not happening at all here.  I am sure your right that no-one knows whats going on right, other than those directly involved, however it would be easy to quell the talk with simple denials. 

Magnus

December 11th, 2013 at 12:26 PM ^

"it would be easy to quell the talk with simple denials"

It's not easy to quell things with simple denials when you (aka Saban) are a known liar. He has "denied" things before that still became true. Denying it doesn't really do him any good. He would either be telling the truth and no one would believe him, or he would be lying and end up proven a liar once again.

Callahan

December 11th, 2013 at 1:44 PM ^

I wonder what the effect  of moving the hashmarks to the professional width would have on spread offenses. it would at least keep the ball near the center of the field. Seems more viable that most alternatives.