I'VE HAD JUST ABOUT ENOUGH OF YOU SONNY
- Member for
- 17 weeks 6 days
- Karma value
|1 hour 14 min ago||Question for those asking||
Question for those asking about "calling them dumb names even though they kick Michigan's ass": do you have to currently have the upper hand to do so? I've always thought calling OSU "Ohio" was kind of lame, but do you think they stopped using "TSUN/TTUN" from 1988-2000? As for MSU, they introduced "Little Brother", Michael Hart just ran with it (and results on the field be damned, it has always fit the mindset of their fanbase like a glove). One of their own dumbass fans vandalized a car with "STAEE", and it wouldn't be the first time one bad apple got a whole fanbase labeled. I don't see what the big deal is.
|1 hour 21 min ago||OK, I like your scenario||
OK, I like your scenario better than mine. I just really don't want MSU winning the B1G (at least with OSU it's "expected"), but I could live with it if what you describe were to play out.
|1 hour 36 min ago||True, but I'm not a Michigan||
True, but I'm not a Michigan fan in a vacuum, either. I've worked and attended school with plenty of mixtures of fans. I've attended dozens of Michigan home games, and I've attended road games at every B1G campus except Nebraska, Indiana, and of course, now Rutgers and Maryland. I've seen Michigan fans make cocky/asshole comments, sure. I've seen pleny of of Michigan fans online post things that made me cringe to share allegiance with them. But concerted efforts to gang up on one person, or threats of violence, no I've never seen Michigan fans do that to another fan. That doesn't mean I doubt it happens. But one's opinion is always going to be shaped more by firsthand experience.
|1 hour 56 min ago||Fans are going to be fans,||
Fans are going to be fans, and everyone's obviously biased to notice it more among fans of their rivals. Wanting to fight opposing teams' fans, acting like your team winning actually makes you a better person than someone else, running your mouth to coworkers who are casual fans of the other team but who rarely say anything - these are my biggest pet peeves. I do notice the former more among Ohio State fans than I've ever noticed of any fan base, objectively. The latter two I'm sure everyone does, but I, perhaps subjectively, notice it more among Sparties. I've dealt with them my whole life, and, while they're annoying, I'm pretty much used to it and can brush it off.
The real driver behind my animosity right now is how my girlfriend is being treated by the MSU fans she works with. Just two in particular, really, but I'm getting damn tired of hearing about it. My girlfriend didn't even follow sports before she met me, so naturally she took up all of my allegiances. She has never been a fanatic, does not run her mouth to State fans, but ever since the first time she wore a Michigan shirt to work, holy hell. The female one is at least an actual State grad and is pretty much just the spoiled, catty bitch type to everyone. But the guy...not a graduate of State or any university, for that matter, yet uses terms like "Walmart Wolverine" and "scUM" anyway, and just gives my girlfriend ENDLESS shit over any and every Michigan setback, completely unsolicited. I'm to the point where I'm ready to confront him about it, or at least shoot him an email because she has come home in tears a couple times. But of course she doesn't want that kind of drama with a coworker because she's afraid of losing her job. This guy's an asshole and really needs a karmic consequence.
|2 hours 13 min ago||I've defended the current||
I've defended the current regime a lot on here and am inclined to cut Hoke a lot of slack with the tough schedule next year - but I can't. My answer to those who would continue defending him after a debacle next year would be, "I'd have given him that slack if he hadn't pissed away the opportunities afforded by the much easier schedule of 2013". It's harsh to DEMAND a B1G title next year with the new alignment, but unfortunately I think this program's out of excuses. If they don't win, they better have been a play away...
|2 hours 20 min ago||One thing about OSU fans||
One thing about OSU fans that's really irksome right now - the revisionism over their feelings for Meyer. They act like they always loved him and knew he would "come home" eventually - bullshit. I lived in Columbus during the latter years of Urban's tenure at Florida - I unfortunately missed the 41-14 beating - but if you were in any bar on High Street any time Florida was playing, you'd hear, "Fuck you, Urban!" damn near as much as it was heard in Ann Arbor last weekend. They hated him until the second Tressel was forced out, don't let any tell you otherwise.
|2 hours 48 min ago||Ohio State rips MSU so badly||
Ohio State rips MSU so badly they drop out of the Top 14 (with a few schools behind them winning just to make sure). No BCS bowl for Sparty. Then Auburn and FSU both lose, and Alabama backs into the title game. I know, I know, them winning again would suck. But Ohio State fans have been talking all kinds of shit about how they'd beat 'Bama (now that they are sure they're safe from running into them), and it would be great to see them slaughtered even if it means another Saban victory. Plus I kind of feel that the next non-'Bama champion should have to dethrone the Tide to do it, and not via some completely freak play.
|3 hours 2 min ago||Oh, I'm not saying Greater||
Oh, I'm not saying Greater Lansing is the only area of the state with more MSU fans, I'm just saying I know in many other parts of the state it's the reverse.
|3 hours 28 min ago||This. To State fans, the only||
This. To State fans, the only time it matters that the game is close, is if they lost. If they won, it was an ass-kicking, regardless of the score. OSU fans can at least give grudging credit - sometimes.
|3 hours 35 min ago||I realize that in many parts||
I realize that in many parts of the state, Michigan fans are the majority. I grew up about 30 miles from Lansing, though. Sparty was definitely predominant, and I found MSU fans insufferable from the get-go. And it has never changed. I also concede that by the time I lived around large numbers of OSU fans, it was 2008 and, well...yeah.
|3 hours 43 min ago||That may be true. I can||
That may be true. I can remember during Michigan's better days in the late '90s and very early '00s, my stepdad and my uncle in Ohio would exchange calls after either team lost a game to someone else. The tone would be a friendly, "So what happened?", but there would definitely be tinges of schadenfreude. I can also remember getting an email from that same uncle in the fall of 2003 - I know it was then because I remember where I was when I received it, I was deployed - showing the "New State Quarter of Michigan", with "Ohio State Owns Our Ass" inscribed on it. Sometime in ealy fall, 2003, i.e. after back-to-back wins over Michigan for the first time in two decades, after a stretch during which they won two of thirteen. You do have a point.
However, I can also remember being in elementary school in the late '80s and early '90s and watching Michigan lose the Rose Bowl, then on the first day of school a week later having to hear about it from Sparty classmates - whose team had sucked dog shit that year and not even gone to a bowl (they did the same after the '92 and '93 Final Fours). I realize all fanbases do everything, but every fan has his "They did it first" moment, and to me, Sparty fans were cemented as "little bro" right then and there.
|3 hours 56 min ago||Sparty hands down. OSU fans||
Sparty hands down. OSU fans are more psycho and bloodthirsty, but I can tell you from living most of my life in Michigan, attending MSU, and living a couple years in Ohio - Buckeye fans don't want to stop at every commercial break during their own game to check and see if Michigan is losing. There is only one fanbase that does that. Michigan-OSU is like every "hateful but at least somewhat respectful" rivalry - Yanks-Sox, Bears-Pack, USC-ND. Sparty is all about inferiority complex and jealousy, 100% of the time.
|1 day 4 hours ago||Not much of a soccer-follower||
Not much of a soccer-follower here, so forgive my ignorance. But I couldn't help but notice, both here and on other sites and especially my Facebook news feed, that the general consensus seems to be that the US team might as well stay home now. Are upsets really that rare? I have a hard time understanding how soccer can be that lacking in parity compared to other sports. I mean, it's one game against one opponent, it's not like we're talking best-of-sevens, which do make upsets dramatically harder. Is it that inconceivable for a Cinderella to catch fire, as happens nearly every March in the Big Dance?
|3 days 2 hours ago||I'm more of a football guy,||
I'm more of a football guy, but a National Championship changes the perception of your program.
|4 days 6 hours ago||I'm fine with that mindset.||
I'm fine with that mindset. And I'll happily admit I was wrong if Michigan gets thumped in these games, and that Hoke and staff probably aren't the crew to move this program forward. I just don't believe yet that they've had things the way they'd like them to be, in terms of personnel. I am willing to trust that they did consider the possibility of changing offensive philosophy this year to better match the players' skill sets, and concluded that it didn't guarantee success enough to justify injuring the development of their vision for the future. I know results have been ugly and I'm itching for that to change as much as anyone else. But I think we need to take into account the fact that Hoke didn't inherit anything like what Urban did, personnel-wise, and Dantonio has a four-year head start on him. It sucks in the interim, but I think next year is when we start to see results. And if I'm wrong, it won't be the first time, and I'll agree it's likely time to look in a new direction.
|4 days 7 hours ago||*Will Gholston, you mean.||
*Will Gholston, you mean. Vernon played for Ohio State.
|4 days 7 hours ago||Jeez, I can't believe people||
Jeez, I can't believe people are writing off these games as automatic losses. The season is nine months away. On multiple threads lately I've been seeing this. Michigan replacing two o-linemen next year will be a disaster, but MSU and OSU replacing three and four is but a speedbump for each of them? Come on now. I'm not necessarily saying Michigan is going to go into Columbus and East Lansing and just crack skulls, but I do sincerely believe that, personnel-wise, the two-deep is oh-so-close to that tipping point where what the coaches would like to do, and the tools to do it, finally meet. I think there needs to be at least a modicum of trust in people who are paid handsomely to evaluate progress (not just the coaches, but Brandon as well), to give them some benefit of the doubt that there is progress that simply isn't visible to us yet. At the very least I'm waiting until the bowl game before I start loading the lifeboats.
|5 days 2 hours ago||Unsurprised and really not||
Unsurprised and really not that worried. I think there needs to be some degree of faith in those who are behind the scenes and can see what we can't, and are making these decisions rationally and not because they're pissed that they have to hear it from their asshole cousin in Ohio or Sparty coworkers. Next year is it. Brady Hoke's career will live or die on 2014's win-loss record. If you think he hasn't considered what all the options are before deciding what the best *available* one is, don't come back here saying you had faith all along if Michigan is 12-1 and looking at a playoff berth a year from now.
(yes, insert Jim Mora .gif here)
|5 days 7 hours ago||I love Team X and they are||
I love Team X and they are Team Y's rival, so I am going to go on all of Team Y's websites masquerading as one of their fans, posting incessantly about my concern and worry with how "poorly" things are going for "us". I am apparently under the impression that doing so will crush the spirits of Team Y's fans, which will in turn have some kind of actual, perceptible effect on Team Y's performance, and that they're more likely to take what I say to heart if they think I'm one of them.
Not saying it makes sense or is a worthwhile activity, just giving my best definition.
|5 days 7 hours ago||Non-parent here. My attitude||
Non-parent here. My attitude is I wish they'd won, of course, but I saw promise: Devin Gardner is a warrior who is respected by his team and will be their unquestioned leader next year. I saw the offensive line and running game with a pulse. I am sure I am in the minority, but I honestly believe both will be better next season. I saw Borges and Hoke put together a coherent game plan. I still have to wonder about their ability to do that weekly, and I doubt Borges is gone, but maybe with a better o-line, game plans can be more what they want them to be next season. Most of all, I saw a team that didn't quit. Not before the game, when the entire college football world wrote this game off as a beating, and not when they fell behind by two scores late the third. Given the kind of season it's been, those would have been typical times for 18-22 year-old guys to say, "Piss on it". That didn't happen. Yeah, I know, "Michigan will always get up and play Ohio State tough", and to that I say, uh, 42-7 and 37-7. No, I'm not lauding this game as a "moral victory", so don't go there. I'm fed up with losing to our two primary rivals and firmly would be on board with Hoke out the door if they lose to both again next year. I don't care that they're road games. Michigan should be returning a more complete team than either of them, man up and win a damn road game. What I saw Saturday in the face of adversity (yeah, cliche alert!) tells me it can be done.
|5 days 16 hours ago||Huh? I don't know whether you||
Huh? I don't know whether you misread my post, but I wasn't at all suggesting anything but genuine motives for Hoke. I was simply stating that I've been pleasantly surprised by the reactions I've seen of Ohio State fans, and that it's really difficult to imagine Michigan State dialing down the vitriol a single iota if Hoke had done this for one of theirs.
|5 days 18 hours ago||I have seen a lot of Ohio||
I have seen a lot of Ohio people talking about this online lately, and it has (incrementally) improved my view of them as a fanbase. There are at least a solid number of them, it seems, who get that there's more to life than football and there's a time to set all the rivalry stuff aside. Imagine if Hoke had done this for an MSU fan. I would just about guarantee the reaction of 99% of them would be, "Oh well, fuck him. Fatass".
|5 days 19 hours ago||It's not possible for me to||
It's not possible for me to place a loss above any win, but some, for sheer entertainment value, are still worth the price of admission. In this category of "WOW" losses, I'd definitely have to say it's up there with the 2005 Rose Bowl vs Texas.
That said, these close losses, especially to THEM...I've seen some hand-wringing on here about how, "Well, yeah, we've lost nine of ten to them, but some of them were really close so it's not like we always get dominated". Yeah, but that's just the thing: 2001, 2002, 2005, 2006 (and then, yeah, they pretty much were annual beatdowns 2007-2010), 2012, 2013, all close losses...the only time Michigan has won a "could have gone either way"-type game was 2011. This really makes me worry the problem is coaching, when your rival just always seems to be able to make that one play that makes the difference, and you're almost always the one lamenting a missed opportunity.
|1 week 1 day ago||I know this will annoy some||
I know this will annoy some posters here, but, it's what I believe: I still attach what may seem like an inordinate amount of blame to Lloyd Carr for the state of the program, because I feel everything is the result of a chain reaction. Lloyd's lackluster performance over the second half of his tenure really hurt perceptions of the program. Tressel's ownership of him, not just on the field but in player development (compare recruiting class rankings for the two coaches, then compare how many NFL draft picks they each produced) affected recruiting. His last few classes didn't set up his successor well. And of course the successor had to come from outside the program because over 13 seasons, he couldn't hire or groom one decent guy who could take the reins from him. Then he stayed way past his shelf life and poorly timed his retirement announcement.
I think the hiring of Rich Rod can even be partly pinned on him: what were the two things Michigan fans were most sick of (besides Jim Tressel) by 2007? To me, it was Lloyd's predictable offense and the frequent inability of his defenses to adjust when they themselves came up against spread offenses. I think the whole "going outside the box" with the Rich Rod hire was in part a reaction to Lloyd's ineptitude in those areas. And of course, I don't think he did much to help the chilly reception RR received from the "blue bloods".
So, then what happens? The pendulum swings back. After the firing of RR, opinion is that they need to run back to "safe and familiar", and we get another "reaction" hire in Brady Hoke. Michigan has been "reacting" instead of forging its own path and identity for the better part of a decade, and eclipsed by MSU and flat-out left in the dust by OSU are the results of it. And I believe it began with one Lloyd Carr. I really do think he was a good man and decent coach at first, but he lost the fire in his belly circa 2001, and apparently didn't see that as a reason to hang 'em up until six years had passed and damage had been done to the program that can't just be undone overnight.
|1 week 2 days ago||That is an excellent read. If||
That is an excellent read. If you enjoyed it that much, you would probably also like "American Nations: A History Of The Eleven Rival Regional Cultures Of North America" by Colin Woodard.
|1 week 3 days ago||Having spent a lot of time in||
Having spent a lot of time in various different parts of the US, yeah, Michigan and Ohio both have a lot of shared "Midwestern" cultural aspects. But Ohio also has a...shall we say, "Appalachian" tinge for which Michigan simply does not have an analog.
|1 week 3 days ago||Hart may have been 0-4||
Hart may have been 0-4 against the Bucks, but he was just the opposite against MSU, and he was only repeating what one of their whiny pissants said. I'm just as over the whole, "Michigan started it and are now reaping what they've sown" shit with Dantonio. That's the whole reason I hate the guy. State fans love to say, "You hate him because he dominates you!". No, no I don't. Izzo has dominated Michigan and I don't hate him. I hate Dantonio because he started the shit-talking before he even coached a down against Michigan as MSU head coach, and then after Michigan beat him that year and decided to mock HIS mockery, he acted like he was the butthurt victim of it all. He's a classless asshole.
|1 week 3 days ago||I too hate this, with OSU and||
I too hate this, with OSU and MSU. It makes me cringe when I'm around them and other Michigan fans are there invoking the all-time record. "I may not have existed yet, but 'we' owned you during the '20s, bitches!". Awesome.
|1 week 3 days ago||I lived in Columbus for all||
I lived in Columbus for all but the tail end of the Rich Rod era. I am almost 32, so my first decade of Michigan football was late '80s through late '90s. I noticed, when I lived there, the hate is at its most virulent and psychotic levels among people my own age, and that makes sense: if they became fans around the same time I did, they experienced not just frequent losses againt Michigan, but frequently excellent OSU teams inexplicably losing to middle-of-the-pack Michigan teams. Even after seven straight victories and nine out of ten as payback, the hate could not be quenched, and it may never be. Older fans, on the other hand, were hateful but a little more...I don't know...you got the sense with them, that they know the pendulum always swings back and forth. Obviously, I suppose the difference could just be a maturity thing. I didn't have much interaction with people much younger than I.
|1 week 4 days ago||Oh, man, what a tough||
Oh, man, what a tough one...
First Michigan-OSU game I can remember was 1988, and what a bang to start with.
Then I got to see my first "favorite Michigan player" strike the Heisman pose in 1991.
The 1993 beatdown was epic.
1995 was great. The Game was a rare (for that time) Thanksgiving weekend affair, and we were in Chicago visiting family. That was the year of Northwestern's renaissance, and they needed an OSU loss to get to the Rose Bowl for the first time since 1948. We were surrounded by NW fans, so that was cool. And even better than 313 yards for Touchdown Tim was Terry Glenn getting his smack talk shoved down his throat. A nice reversal after the same thing had happened to Walter Smith the previous year in Columbus.
1997 was my first time going to The Game. I was a sophomore in high school and got to rush the field afterward. I don't know if anything can top doing that in a Rose Bowl-clinching game. Bonus, Stanley Jackson's pick-six at the hands of Andre Weathers may be the most hilarious play from the The Game in all its history.
...although I got to do it again in 2003. And was legal to drink this time.
And why not one more time in 2011? I was a month from 30th birthday and that gave me a second's pause as I considered whether I was "too old", but then I realized I was a month from my 22nd birthday last time Michigan beat them, and I'd better get my ass down there. It was also my girlfriend's first trip to the Big House, so obviously that was very special for her.
2005 - I was home on leave before deploying and hadn't been to the Big House since '03, so I jumped at a last-minute chance to go despite being severely hungover from kicking off my going-away weekend in style Friday night. And despite that hangover, I could sense all fourth quarter that lead wasn't lasting...
2006 - two weeks away from coming home from same deployment. So pumped to buy National Championship Game tickets as my welcome home present. And then...Shawn Crable and Morgan Trent sdlkfjsdlfkdjglsdjgodfjg;ghlkfjl