Why not minor league football?

Submitted by 1464 on

In lieu of the Cam Newton stuff, I figured this may be an appropriate question.  First, let me disclaim that I would never want to see a minor league football system, if only for the selfish fact that I'm an avid Michigan fan.

That being said, why is there not an avenue for these kids to get paid in the three years they have to wait before going to the NFL?  Is there one, but it is just not a common thing?  I'd figure a guy like Williams or Clarett would have taken that route if presented it, so their options cannot be tangible.

I get that the big benefit of NCAA football is that kids that will never attain anything in the NFL are given the chance to get a great foundation for other professions.  However, no matter how unethical these pay to play scenarios are, its pretty unfair that these kids don't have an option to be paid. 

That being said, I still enjoy the soap operas that are the Auburn's and USC's of the world.  They still deserve it for skirting the rules.  The NCAA would stop at nothing to prevent a minor league, because it would cut into their non-profit margins.  They may have enough pull to prevent this from ever happening  The question is, is it fair?

blueheron

November 10th, 2010 at 7:33 AM ^

Well, there's Arena Football, right?  http://www.arenafootball.com/

United Football League, too: http://www.ufl-football.com/

So, you have at least two possibilities.

Cam Newton jokes aside, players might see more upside to playing in college (visibility, coaching, education for the ones that are so inclined).

"... its pretty unfair that these kids don't have an option to be paid ..."

That seems like a separate conversation, doesn't it?

Blazefire

November 10th, 2010 at 7:27 AM ^

is very poorly financed and organized. Teams show up with 12 guys, borrow equipment, scrap games at the last instant, and have no worthwhile coaching whatsoever. It's not productive to developing as a player.

Furthermore, you don't get a college degree out of it. So what happens if you're not good enough to go pro? YOu end up with nothing but a few bucks a week, at most. And for what it's worth, many minor football leagues are actually pay to play from the players.

formerlyanonymous

November 10th, 2010 at 7:33 AM ^

To add on to this, the NFL isn't going to invest in boosting up these minor leagues either. That costs money. They've got a nearly free pipeline from college, where they expect most of the "problems" will be weeded out before they get drafted.

Theoretically, you have to be smart enough to get into college, and smart enough to stay. Sure, they take flyers on guys like Clarrett who didn't last, but who's to say that if Clarrett hadn't had finished college, he would have been drafted MUCH higher and all that money been wasted.

snowcrash

November 10th, 2010 at 11:26 AM ^

I don't think a baseball-type farm system would work for football, because football is much more physically debilitating. Guys who wash out of minor league baseball are much less likely to come out of it with chronic problems that limit their ability to do certain types of jobs.

If hypothetically college football had never existed and football had started with a baseball-type farm system, I think a lot of people would be bothered by the sight of so many minor league football players having to quit the game with serious injuries, limited education, and limited ability to do physical work. You would probably see proposals to reform the system by having the minor leagues partner with junior colleges and/or 4-year schools so the guys who can't make a career in the NFL would at least have better job prospects. In other words, basically the current system. 

1464

November 10th, 2010 at 7:49 AM ^

Does arena football or did the XFL pay players directly out of high school?   It just seems like the US is starved enough for football that a minor league system would have developed at some point.  I know basketball doesn't have a minor league (in the US) but hockey and baseball both do.  Granted those sports have a numbers advantage due to quantity of games.  I just don't understand why nobody thought that they could pay the top kids out of high school and have them shine in their league for a few years.  Point to ANY league in the recent past that has had NFL talent, other than the NFL...

formerlyanonymous

November 10th, 2010 at 8:00 AM ^

NBA at least has the D-League. It's not the same type of minor league as the NHL or MLB, as a D-League team may be comprised of 1-3 different pro teams (such as the Pistons, Bucks, and Pacers all using the Fort Wayne Mad Ants), but it does exist.

No idea about the lesser football leagues, but I could see them not going after much high school talent. High school kids are either good enough to play college somewhere (and grades are overlooked), or they're not big enough to hang with the full grown adults.

1464

November 10th, 2010 at 9:31 AM ^

I could see them not going after much high school talent. High school kids are either good enough to play college somewhere (and grades are overlooked), or they're not big enough to hang with the full grown adults.

My specific point was why has there not been a push to, in some way, replace college football.  Cam Newton would not be in college right now if he could be making $200,000 a year for the Harrisburg Harlots, and was in just as good a position to make even more after 3 years.

I would wager that a very large percentage of kids would set up shop in a minor league while waiting for their pro eligibility.  The ones that weren't good enough or developed enough would be forced to play in college, but the Pryor's and the Newton's and some of the physical specimens would be ready and willing to bypass college.

Steve in PA

November 10th, 2010 at 10:21 AM ^

NBA had the CBA until Isiah killed it.  The CBA was a great minor league and I think it didn't receive any direct funding from the NBA.  The CBA didn't try to be the NBA and knew that it would never be, but it did develop a lot of talent that eventually landed in the NBA, both players and coaches.  Those were mostly role players since the stars could jump directly to the NBA at the time.

I mentioned a minor league football alternative in one of the many Cam Newton threads earlier this week.  I think it's time has come as long as it doesn't try to compete directly against the NFL which too many small leagues have done.  Another mistake IMHO has been to modify the rules to make the alternative leagues "more exciting".  I do not like to watch the Arena League, XFL, or any of the other variants that have been tried.  I like football.

The USFL had a successful business model and was actually on its way to profitability until Donald Trump got involved.  The World League also seemed to be working, although it was funded by the NFL, until it moved entirely overseas.  I remember watching the Orlando team with those UGLY uniforms.

Startup costs are enormous and I'm sure that barrier to entry is what will prevent a league from starting.  Also, the ability of the NFL to poach talent would be a negative since the big names will jump after their 2nd year (assuming they come straight from HS).

Paskanen

November 10th, 2010 at 8:46 AM ^

I never understood why these kids don't go to Canada or the arena league. There are and have been multiple other minor leagues but they don't typically pay a living wage and most of them come and go without anyone noticing. Players can sometimes opt to maintain their amature status. A friend of mine did this before walking on at notre dame.

Tater

November 10th, 2010 at 9:04 AM ^

Because of the physical nature of football, a minor league would almost have to be age-based.  We have seen first-hand the disadvantage younger players have against older ones, especially on the lines, because they aren't physically ready to take on players in their twenties.   

There would have to be a place where OL and DL candidates could sit on the bench for a year or two as they do in major college programs.  The main problem is that professionals, for the most part, won't pay someone to sit on the bench, grow, and learn.  Or, it would have to be tiered like baseball's minor leagues are. 

As it was already noted, the NFL already has a free, de facto minor league, so there is no way they would spend the money required to form their own minor league.  As fans in markets where games are occasionally blacked out already know, the NFL is the greediest of all the professional leagues.  I can't see them buying a dairy farm when they are already getting free milk from the NCAA.

JeepinBen

November 10th, 2010 at 9:33 AM ^

I agree mostly... but I think you would also need some exceptions to that rule. The name escapes me but there was a 19 year old kid who got drafted in the NFL, on the line, and has stuck (IIRC). He grew early, graduated high school early, and started playing college ball. Graduated from college in 3 years, and was drafted. 

slight googling: Amobi Okoye, drafted in 2007 at the age of 19

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/draft/2007-02-24-amobi-okoye_x.htm

In general I agree with you that the 3 years out of high school is good for the NFL... just that if you had an 18yo league, a 19 yo league, etc. it might not work

1464

November 10th, 2010 at 9:37 AM ^

You bring up a point.  Are minor leagues financially independent?  If so, the NFL does not have to 'sponsor' one.  There just has to be a good business structure built around the idea.  While it may not be the best option for a large swath of kids, there would be no AAA team who would pass on Reggie Williams or Maurice Clarett.  Also, don't pro teams pay players to sit on the bench now?  There would have to be roster spots to fill.  And high school kids would not value their $30,000 per year education to sit on the bench on a college team more than $30,000 to sit on the bench on a AAA team.

tlh908

November 10th, 2010 at 9:07 AM ^

Where I live, there are 2 minor league baseball teams within 45 minutes of me.  I couldn't tell you a single player on either team, either one of them won their division.  There is no exposure for minor league teams, where as colleges have tradition and lots of media attention.  It is a lot easier to cheer for an alma mater than for a city team that you have little connection to.  College football has to much money involved to just vanish.

formerlyanonymous

November 10th, 2010 at 10:42 AM ^

Anthony Rendon, Ty Stuckey. Naming a third could be rough as Rice graduated a lot of talent last year. No more Diego Seastrunk makes me unhappy.

But that's if you count my old home. My new home, that's easier. Matt Purke, Taylor Featherston, Aaron Shultz, Jason Coats, and Jantzen Witte. Woo TCU in the CWS! I can't think of another UT-A player now that Choice was drafted as a junior.

Or may you'd prefer me to list off about 40 Big Ten players?

Maybe I'm not the best example of your regularly expected knowledge of college baseball.

iheartlarryfoote

November 10th, 2010 at 9:59 AM ^

I'm glad you're so worried about these poor college football players who are mistreated so badly.  After all can you imagine the atrocity of having to go to college to be considered qualified for a lucrative job?  It gets worse though, they get full scholarships, elite coaching and tons of national exposure.  They might as well be migrant workers.  I know the kids in my schools chapter of the Social Justice League were working tirelessly to free college football players.

BornInAA

November 10th, 2010 at 12:38 PM ^

tired of the "pay the players" whine every year.

I am still paying my student loans.

I would have gladly taken free room, board, tuition, books:

$50k a year out of state = $100,000 over 4 years.

http://www.finaid.umich.edu/financial_aid_basics/cost.asp

a personal trainer, a personal doctor, coaching, access to my exclusive spa and exercise area, trips to exotic locations at the holidays for free, a 5% chance of becoming a pro football millionare.

Everything listed above, free for four years is easy another $25k a year.

This totals $150,000 free stuff over 4 years

Then the intangibles:

Being a class I player, admiration of thousands, hotty college babes swooning, etc.

 

treetown

November 10th, 2010 at 10:00 AM ^

Minor leagues could work, but have all of the limitations already noted above: lack of financial support, presence of TV and Internet means people can watch the big teams - why watch the local minor league teams, age and growth issues, etc.

Sports is major part of American culture. It has economic impact and clearly is a major part of many people's lives (just look at this blog) and how many people's weekends center around various sports.

What needs to be done is to end the hypocrisy in major college sports. Many college sports are all about the 1950's vision of team work, camaraderie and sportsmanship. But for the big money sports, face reality, the top players view this time as a training period, a stepping stone to a future professional career. So why not make that possible. Have the NCAA abandon its 1920's base shamateurism and go open. Once tennis and the olympic sports were like the NCAA - full of fake amateurs taking money under the table. Now it is all open. Realistically if you are serious tennis player today, by the time you are 16-17 you have to be playing at an international level if you ever hope to be a pro or win a major championship. For girls, if you aspire to be gymnast you probably need to be international caliber or darn close by th time you are in your 13-14. For college tennis and gymnasts, there isn't a likely pro path and so we don't have those issues.

Universities across the country grant degrees in drama and performance music - and musicians and actors hardly have lives any easier or longer in duration than athletes. Only a few really make it big and the rest struggle, yet there is no outcry about this. Why not let the top players "study" sport - Do we limit how much an architecture student can study in the summer? Are we upset if the engineering student gets an internship with a top engineering firm? If someone in the drama or music department left school to take a major role in a film or with an orchestra wouldn't the alumni magazine be touting this? Let's stop pretending football is some nice extra curricular activity done as a pass time by some nice college boys when they are not in the library.

We don't have to pay the players - but we should make training available year round and by top professionals - in the sport, in nutrition, in psych, and they should be taught the financial realities. The real shame isn't just the fake student athletes, but the number of kids who just string along until they use their eligibility. With a performance sports major, pro scouts would be allowed to come to campus (just like recruiters for companies) and kids will know do they have what it takes. There will still be room for real student athletes, just most of the musicians in the school bands and orchestras are NOT music majors, but they'll not be under any illusions.

brad

November 10th, 2010 at 10:10 AM ^

College football is the only minor league football that will make money, because millions of people have a built-in emotional bond to local schools or their alma mater and will pay money to watch their teams play.

To get a minor football league to work well, you might have to disband college football.

Erik_in_Dayton

November 10th, 2010 at 10:25 AM ^

Let's say for the sake of argument that Demar Dorsey's one great talent in the world is playing football.  It's a shame that he might not get the chance to do that professionally because his grades are bad.  If he was a baseball player, he could just go straight from high school into the minors and his chances of playing major league baseball wouldn't suffer for that at all.

burtcomma

November 11th, 2010 at 9:43 AM ^

We have a Mr. Ohio football from 2008 and 2009 in our town, Erik Howard, who is a tremendous football player, nice kid, and unfortunately, unable to do better than C's and D's in high school and unable to function in a college setting.  He's off supposedly to the Arena League.....OSU, PSU, Michigan, Kent Stae, Akron (now 0-10 this yr) all looked at him and all said we wish he could qualify, and he enrolled at Akron, but just not capable of staying academically eligible.

burtcomma

November 10th, 2010 at 11:44 AM ^

So far, no one has found a way to make it work as a business model.  People vote with their money, and minor league football has not been able to attract enough votes to garner enough money to make it a viable business proposition. 

Everytime some revelation comes out about some player that has skirted the official rules, someone brings up this kind of stuff.  Remember that only a very small percentage (2.4%) of  college football players ever make it to the next level.  And the average NFL career is 4 seasons..... 

College football is not really about developing players for the NFL, that is just a current fall out.  College football was big and filled stadiums long before the NFL became the huge business it is today.  It is about people voting with their money to invest their civic or school pride into a group of men that represent their school or locality to the rest of the world. 

Tha Quiet Storm

November 10th, 2010 at 11:48 AM ^

to institute a true minor league system without somehow undermining college football. I have always felt that guys like Clarett, Marques Slocum, etc. (guys with tremendous athletic talent but no interest/motivation for school) should be able to take their talents out into a free job market, just like everyone else, and not be tied down by academic requirements. It just seems like every year you hear about a gifted athlete who will never make it to the pros because he just isn't smart/motivated enough to meet the demands of college. To make an analogy, it would be like one of us short/out of shape/skinny but academically inclined people not being able to enter the job market because, although we do well in school, we cannot bench press 400 lbs or run a 4.4 forty. Just doesn't seem fair.

UMQuadz05

November 10th, 2010 at 12:18 PM ^

Sadly for some, there will never be minor league football while college football is so huge.  Even in basketball, the European leagues are emerging as a viable option for guys that can't/don't want to stay in school. 

It would be nice if the UFL evolves into a viable stepping stone.  The original plan was to be a spring league and play in college towns; there would even be an emphasis on taking alumni.  Would you watch John Navarre and Brandon Minor?  Yeah, me too.  Don't know what happened to that plan. 

M Fanfare

November 10th, 2010 at 2:00 PM ^

John U. Bacon says that you have to look at how each sport developed in its infancy in order to explain the presence or lack of a well-developed minor league. Baseball and hockey developed as professional sports before college baseball and hockey (NHL founded 1917, Michigan first drops the puck in 1923/ MLB has the first World Series in 1903, College Baseball has its first tournament in 1947) so the pros had to develop a feeder league.

Football and basketball, on the other hand, developed at the college level before they did so at the pro level. The NFL was formed in 1920 when Fielding Yost was already sitting on 5 national titles and Michigan had already produced a bunch of All-Americans (plus the NFL didn't truly become popular until the mid- to late-1950s). The same goes for basketball--the NIT (the first postseason basketball tournament) was first played in 1938, whereas the NBA wasn't even founded until 1946. So when the NFL and NBA first got off the ground they already had ready-made minor leagues (college) whereas the college equivalents of the MLB and NHL had to catch up to the already-successful professionals.

DerylG

November 10th, 2010 at 2:49 PM ^

I’ve always taken the lack of minor league football competing with the NCAA as proof that the players, on average, receive appropriate compensation from the universities.  Otherwise a league could be profitable by offering better compensation and luring away the talent from the schools.