Starting 5 going forward
I think after tonight's Ricky Doyle coming out party, we can think about a new 5 going forward. I was really excited to see Kam this year but thus far he has underwhelmed greatly. Donnal does not seem to have the physical tools to be the main guy at the 5.
Going forward I think we should see a starting 5 of: Walton, Spike, Levert, Irvin, and Doyle. I believe this lineup gives us the best chance. I hope that coming off the bench will ease Kam into the flow of college ball better, and I hope to see him slide back into the starting lineup come B1G season so we can have Spike coming off the bench where he thrives.
November 25th, 2014 at 12:14 AM ^
November 25th, 2014 at 12:53 AM ^
Irvin took time too. And of course LeVert wasn't much of a factor at all as a freshman. I don't think there should be worry about Kam. Not with this coaching staff.
November 25th, 2014 at 7:48 AM ^
Chatman is going to be good. It's all a matter of when. He looks really good for a flash on just about every possession. He's just not used to the speed of the game, and he obviously doesn't really "get" Michigan's offense yet.
November 25th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^
Chatman will be fine. Keep him in the starting rotation with Doyle. Let Spike come off the bench when we need better control of the ball or Walton needs a blow.
November 25th, 2014 at 9:14 AM ^
It looks like Kam is passing up a lot of open looks on the perimeter in favor of drives into traffic. He's 0-for-5 for the season on 3-point attempts. We know he has the range; maybe after he makes a few of those his game will open up a little.
November 25th, 2014 at 12:12 AM ^
We could do that in the short-term but yeah, in the long run the Spike/Walton backcourt is a little small.
November 25th, 2014 at 12:14 AM ^
Even against the small Oregon lineup tonight.
November 25th, 2014 at 12:16 AM ^
Not to mention Irvin at the 4.
November 25th, 2014 at 9:07 AM ^
Not to mention that Spike is easily the best back-up to Walton. Starting them both could be really bad should one of them get hurt.
November 25th, 2014 at 9:16 AM ^
Does that really matter in a college basketball backcourt? Very few college guards have developed post-up games, and very few are good at contested jumpers even if they can shoot over a smaller guy. The main area where it might hurt is rebounding, but we know that Walton is a very good rebounder for his size, so even that might not be a big issue.
November 25th, 2014 at 11:34 AM ^
Honestly, the size in the backcourt is not the big problem with that line-up. Although it gives us less length on D.
The two big problems are that it leaves no back-up at the PG position, and size/rebounding at the 4. Outside of MAAR (who is clearly not ready for primetime), we have no one else who can come in and play the 1. And you thought GRIII had issues guarding big PFs last year? Watch Irvin try to do that.
I really like this line up in certain situations - either against teams with a smaller front court or in game-closing situations where experience trumps a lot of other things. Also, if we played a team like VCU who presses and runs, this is a good line up. But for the bulk of Big Ten play, this cannot be our starting 5.
November 25th, 2014 at 12:12 AM ^
Could be. I do think Donnal is about to lose his job. I was very excited about having a stretch five in this offense, but he isnt getting it done on either side of the floor. Maybe later this year, or next year, or not for 2 or 3 years. I think he'll find his way.
I wouldnt burry kam just yet. People were calling for spike to play over Walton for the first 2/3 of the season last year, and for reasonable reason. But Beilein knows who his blue chippers are and will develop them. I think for that reason Kam survives. He also hasnt shown much yet, though.
November 25th, 2014 at 7:32 AM ^
Donnal is going to be fine. He's struggling a bit right now, but he's going to be a very good basketball player for Michigan.
I'm sure with Coach BA's help, he's going to do well.
November 25th, 2014 at 12:13 AM ^
I think Levert, Walton, and Irvin are obvious but as for the rest why settle on 1 lineup i would switch it up each game at least until the big ten starts.
November 25th, 2014 at 9:55 AM ^
I think you still start Kam to get him experience. Nothing slows the game down like experience. At crunch time, you go with the guys who give you the best chance to win.
November 25th, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^
Yeah, I agree. I like how we've rotated like crazy in the first half, then gone with what works in the second. Let your young guys come in for spurts early to get them some PT and let your starters rest a bit so they can play nearly the whole second half if necessary.
November 25th, 2014 at 12:19 AM ^
I would keep Chatman as the starting 4. You need a rested Spike to come in for Walton. And you need a little more height at the 2 spot. And although Chatman's still learning the college ropes, he is very talented and should be very very good as he gains experience. Even now, you can tell he's getting more comfortable and settled down. By the Big Ten season rolls around, you want a more experienced Chatman ready to be the starting 4.
November 25th, 2014 at 12:24 AM ^
Giving up that many offensive rebounds a game is not a winning strategy long term. Not content with Kam but lets give him 10-12 games before getting all depressed.
I would like to see Donnal as a 4 for a bit as I think he is not a natural 5. Dont think we really ever play 2 bigs together (Doyle at 5, Donnal at 4) but would be curious how it works - Donnal is more of a pick and pop shooter anyhow so he fits the stretch 4 profile.
If we cut the offensive rebounds conceded in half we win by 15 tonight. It was brutal.
November 25th, 2014 at 12:39 AM ^
November 25th, 2014 at 12:25 AM ^
Cue overreaction to 1 game
November 25th, 2014 at 12:25 AM ^
Basically what we've seen so far. I'm thinking:
Walton, LeVert, Irvin, Chatman, Doyle
with Albrecht getting minutes at both the one and two and Beilfeldt and Donnal still competing for minutes with Doyle
I would really like to see Dawkins get more minutes. I know JB likes his eight man rotation, but I think Dawkins has a world of potential and could provide key offensive sparks off the bench.
November 25th, 2014 at 12:45 AM ^
November 25th, 2014 at 12:26 AM ^
Walton, Irvin, LeVert, Kam, Doyle
The small lineup got killed on the boards by a team that didn't have a guy over 6'8".
November 25th, 2014 at 12:28 AM ^
Don't mess with success.
Anyway, it's not who starts it's who finishes.
November 25th, 2014 at 1:28 AM ^
November 25th, 2014 at 6:29 AM ^
So you click on a thread, read it, comment on it, and then end your comment with "worthless thread"?
November 25th, 2014 at 1:39 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
November 25th, 2014 at 1:43 AM ^
I think JB will probably do a lot of "mix and match" for those not named Irvin, Walton or Levert, according to who is playing well and what the other team's lineup looks like. If it takes until the last half of the Big Ten schedule to get a firm starting five, I'm fine with it.
If there's one thing we can count on, it's that JB is going to make the right decisions, even if it doesn't look that way to us at times.
November 25th, 2014 at 3:03 AM ^
One, he gives us production off the bench that no other fresman can provide right now.
Two, he is still a liability on defense, and this is after reaching (what I believe) to be his ceiling). Tonight, I could not point out a bad decision Spike made on defense. He closed out on threes aggressively, but it didn't matter because guys could shoot over him.
He's a good player and I want him in at crunch time. But if this team is going to make noise in March, Kam Chatman HAS to be a factor.
November 25th, 2014 at 3:33 AM ^
I haven't been that impressed with Spike at all. Our defense suffers when he's in there. Plus we can't grab a rebound to save our life with him. I like him but he's a perfect bench player. I think our Starting Line up should be Dawkins,Irvin,Walton,Lavert and Doyle. Bring Chatman and Spike off the bench along with Donnal.
November 25th, 2014 at 5:12 AM ^
I think Doyle should start for sure against teams with big strong centers. Against smaller teams I still think Doyle but I'm sure Beilien will figure out the best line ups to go with.
November 25th, 2014 at 5:20 AM ^
November 25th, 2014 at 6:07 AM ^
November 25th, 2014 at 6:06 AM ^
November 25th, 2014 at 7:43 AM ^
It may be the unpopular opinion here, but I'm a bigger fan of bringing Spike off the bench. The guy just brings an instant spark, like the Dion Waiters situation in Cleveland. I heart Spike, though. Totally.
November 25th, 2014 at 8:17 AM ^
I think Irvin needs more opportunities. When LeVert learns to penetrate and dish a to wing or Doyle/Donnal we'll be good
Maximus had his moment but will see less time as the season wears on.
November 25th, 2014 at 9:48 AM ^
Messes up your PG rotation too much. Spike is the perfect "backup QB." Let him get 5-10 minutes with Walton and Walton can play the 2, but they shouldn't both start.
November 25th, 2014 at 10:31 AM ^
Personal pet pieve of mine -- why in the world would Walton defer to Spike at the 1? Walton is the better ball handler and defender. Spike might be a be a better spot up shooter (though that is debateable) but he's certainly less of a threat with the ball in his hands. Not that it matters much in this O, but defensively you want Walton on the "1".
November 25th, 2014 at 11:00 AM ^
and I think Most Of Us Remember Classic Bline Small Ball from 4-5 yrs ago, and LN v-Ore you certainly got a RE-Taste Of It with all those Ore OffRebs.
I think the FEARsome FOURsome Mix is basically set-- with SPIKE kind-of Rotating Thru, getting maybe 15-20 MINS.
Its the 4-5 Mix where its at. And-- its often Not So Much Players, as it is MINS for players. There is ALSO what I call-- The Inverted Starter Technique.
Bline HAS used-- The Inverted Starter Technique, which is oddly, a Starter Coming Off The Bench so to speak. You might see this with Doyle as things Move Forward, maybe even Chatman. But Fundamentally-- the 4-5 at this point is about Finding The Mix, including The Nuanced Nature of The MINS.
November 25th, 2014 at 12:08 PM ^
an Extreme eg would be--
05-- Maximus
04-- Donnal
to be replaced by--
05-- Doyle
04-- Chatman
Often-- The Replacement is done after the first TV-timeout or something. And then it kinda Goes From There.
But here again-- given the Current Situation, its about a Probing Action, trying To Find-Understand The Mix
November 25th, 2014 at 2:23 PM ^
Like many have said, the main lineup for this team will end up being Walton, Levert, Irving, Chatman, Doyle, with Donnal rotating minutes at the 5 and spike at the 1. Especially with Chatman's early struggles, however, Is it possible we see Donnal seeing possible time at the 4? I feel as if a lineup of Walton, Irving, Levert, Donnal and Doyle will help us when facing some larger teams. Donnal is obviously a natural 5 but seems to have the athleticism to guard the 4 also.
December 5th, 2014 at 5:52 PM ^