The Snowflake Thread: Coaching
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:17 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:00 PM ^
At the time, Dave Brandon was getting so much heat for RR not understanding or being able to assimilate into the culture of Michigan. I think he erred on the side of Michigan Mandom. I've always thought we give too much weight to our history and traditions. The uniforms and helmets are the tradition. The fight song and the band, too. But I mean, come on - this is football. Anything beyond that is a stretch.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:04 PM ^
Here's the thing: When Brady was hired, the fanbase was ready to run through a wall for this guy. You had a full house of former players and coaches standing behind the reporters at the opening presser gushing about this guy. Every single person you could find who ever crossed paths with this guy gushed like crazy about how wonderful he was, how they'd do anything for him, how they always hoped he'd get this job. The ducks were in a row. We were sold based on people we trusted telling us this was going to work, and aside from the folks who were still emotionally attached to Rich Rodriguez, everyone was ready to buy in.
Three years later, you look at the product, and you wonder what they were all talking about. What are we missing here? How did we miss the fatal flaw so badly?
For my money, the people who think (like you) that Michigan talks too much about its tradition talk more about Michigan tradition than anyone else. The "Michigan Man" term gets thrown out far more as a complaint about people using it than it does by people actually using it. This isn't about rhetoric, it's about coaching.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:13 PM ^
I'm not disagreeing with you at all that it's about the coaching. But I've seen too many people hide behind the "Michigan Man" label, unwilling to judge the coaching alone. By the way, you have my favorite avatar name on MGoBlog.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:21 PM ^
"The "Michigan Man" term gets thrown out far more as a complaint about people using it than it does by people actually using it."
Tell that to Dhani Jones, Aaron Shea, and the rest of Lloyd's boys who wanted one of *their* guys to be the coach.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:08 PM ^
Ohio State has nice things because they have nice coaches. Meyer and Tressel both were better coaches than anyone we've had since Bo, and the argument could be made that Meyer is better than anyone Michigan has had at coach since Crisler.... maybe since Yost. It's not enough just to have tradition and money and nice helmets. You still have to hire good coaches.
November 23rd, 2013 at 6:21 PM ^
And there lies the problem. A storied program stuck on an ideal.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:08 PM ^
What is the fundamental problem at UM since Tressel arrived at OSU? We have never been the same since. I know UM has a storied tradition and I don't want to go too far back, but I'm trying to understand what is the problem and why is it taking so long to return to a prennial top 10 team. We were there under Bo. We were there under Moeller. We were there under Carr for a while. But, at some point in the Carr era we got frustrated with his inability to beat Tressel so we made the drastic change to RR that is to this day effing up our world.
But, even now back to a Carr-like coach we are still struggling and it seems it's more than just Borges. So, my question is why? Why is it so hard to return to a top 10-type team and why is it so hard to find a coach to do that and how do you find one? I would have never though Chip Kelly was good prior to Oregon. Same with Sumlin prior to T A&M. Guys like Saban, Miles, Harbaugh, Meyer etc. are not coming to Michigan. So, where do we turn? It seems like there is some luck involved and I'm not sure how likely it is we ever get back there at this point without some luck.
It's clear Borges has to go, but even with another pro-style coordinator can Hoke, Mattison, and new o-coordinator get the job done in another year or two? I'm just not sure about much of anything any more. I can't bear another year of this frustration week after week.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:18 PM ^
There is your answer. A "guy like that" went to Alabama, LSU, and OSU. You can't base an elite program solely on pride and tradition. We can either do whatever it takes to get a proven elite coach or we can take chances on up-and-coming project coaches.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:08 PM ^
x infinity.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:13 PM ^
Just saw on Twitter that Hoke responded to a question about the offense by saying "Have to be better."
I give up.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:13 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:17 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:18 PM ^
It's a common social psychology principle that when you surround yourself with people who believe in the same ideas you do, your ideas become more and more entrenched, in spite of outside evidence. If the coaches believe what they say in press conferences, I'm left thinking Schemblecher Hall is turning into an echo chamber.
Someone in the organization needs to stand up and say what's become so publicly obvious. Who's going to do this? Hoke? Brandon?
I'm starting to think the problems run may even deeper than Borges. WRs are dropping more passes, DG of Notre Dame has vanished. If anything our team has gotten worse over the year, and I don't believe it's because the players aren't putting in the work they need to be successful
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:20 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:23 PM ^
134 yards of total offense, 4/4 on third down, 14 points against a top 5 team.
M for the game: 158 yards of total offense, 4/15 on third down.
Oh, and Oregon can't move the ball.
Yeah, Brandon's a stinking genius.
No basketball on turf for us, not Michigan. No way. That's no Michigan Man.
I still think Bo would have loved Rich. And I knew 'em both.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:29 PM ^
November 24th, 2013 at 2:28 AM ^
Neil?
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:24 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:26 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 6:36 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:27 PM ^
We're not Gator fans right now.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:27 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:12 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:31 PM ^
Early in the second quarter, Arizona has 13 first downs (and 21 points) on the 5th ranked Ducks, using a QB that did not get a FBS, FCS, or Division III offer out of high school.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:34 PM ^
They're 6-4.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:37 PM ^
and Arizona can not recruit itself like Michigan. That being said, RR did not know how to recruit or coach a defense capable of stopping a Wisconsin, Iowa, MSU type running game. Pointless comparison anyways as evidently neither RR nor Hoke are capable of getting Michigan to an elite level.
Like comparing a Honda to a Toyota when we are all longing for the Bentley.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:05 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:39 PM ^
and none of those losses are to bad teams. Even Washington State isn't bad.
Do you really think we'd hang with Oregon for more than a quarter?
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:04 PM ^
This is an anomaly.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:34 PM ^
Not trying to be offensive, but this may go to character and personality type.
Who is the last elite obese coach in football? I always felt to be a successful leader (politician/coach) you need to exemplify self control and order. Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh - all type A personalities that are also really fit....kind of fits the mold.
As a coach, you preach hard work and discipline from your players...so being in shape is probably something they can observe and appreciate from their coach.
Would you consider Belicheck or Chip Kelly obese? They definitely aren't Harbaugh fit and are both seemingly control freaks. So maybe this theory goes out the window. I don't know, maybe our coaches are just obese and sloppy at preparing the team and there is no correlation.
Just a question I thought I would throw out there, given that our head coach and O-coordinator aren't exactly treadmill warriors, and we are very sloppy on the field as well.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:10 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:46 PM ^
Can anyone on here calling for Hoke's head really explain why firing him is worthwhile beyond "Grr, this is Michigan, we should be Top Ten?" I think replacing Borges, even if we strike out entirely and wind up with a replacement level coordinator such as Jim Bollman or Greg Davis, is productive for the following reasons:
Can anyone on here calling for Hoke's head really explain why firing him is worthwhile beyond "Grr, this is Michigan, we should be Top Ten?" I think replacing Borges, even if we strike out entirely and wind up with a replacement level coordinator such as Jim Bollman or Greg Davis, is productive for the following reasons:
-Borges has been outperformed by both of those guys this year.
-Borges has yet to include a fully integrated series of plays that the defense can't tee off on. This week's telling example is the inside zone-bubble screen combo. Iowa figured it out, but I wonder if Borges couldn't have caught them cheating by calling a pump fake bubble where Gallon starts streaking downfield. He seems to be playing rock paper scissors and refusing to throw scissors. He doesn't even mix up rock and paper that well.
-He kills drives by calling speed options with fullbacks, bak-to-back reverses, and a brutally predictable 1,2,3 of slam, PA waggle, then speed option/bootleg in goal line situations. Count the number of drives where you can say "Al killed that," a game and it's about four every game.
-Total lack of willingness to play to strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps you noticed on the final drive when Iowa blew up two running plays where our guards pulled. Our first year guards cannot pull, have not once demonstrated that relatively advanced ability, we should not ask them to with the game on the line.
-He's gotten our quarterbacks killed. This plays off the last one. Gardner's hurt and Denard couldn't feel his elbow last season. Calling them soft after the amount of shots they've taken being asked to play against their skills and the skills of the offense is ridiculous.
-The quarterbacks have regressed under his tutelage. In three years now, they've looked more confident, heady, and mechanically sound at the start of the year than they did at the end. He is the QB coach.
So because Al Borges categorically misidentifies his personnel's abilities, fails to develop their talents, and drive-butchering playcalling, he should be fired.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:54 PM ^
Brady paid him out of his own pocket. Al's made a few million. The hole he's dug for himself is too deep to allow him time to crawl out. Sometimes, that's just the calculation -- it's time for someone else, because the margin for error on the downside next year is just too slim to play with. Historically bad means out you go, no matter what circumstances you can dream up.
November 23rd, 2013 at 4:58 PM ^
Hoke could turn things around, but it's not looking good at the moment. Unfortately we've really not been very good for a long time with the exception of 97 and 06. Here is a side by side comparison with OSU since Carr took over. Even when we were dominating them in the 90's they were having better overall seasons.
| Michigan | osu | |||||
| 2012 | 8 | 5 | 2012 | 12 | 0 | |
| 2011 | 11 | 2 | 2011 | 6 | 7 | |
| 2010 | 7 | 6 | 2010 | 12 | 1 | |
| 2009 | 5 | 7 | 2009 | 11 | 2 | |
| 2008 | 3 | 9 | 2008 | 10 | 3 | |
| 2007 | 9 | 4 | 2007 | 11 | 2 | |
| 2006 | 11 | 2 | 2006 | 12 | 1 | |
| 2005 | 7 | 5 | 2005 | 10 | 2 | |
| 2004 | 9 | 3 | 2004 | 8 | 4 | |
| 2003 | 10 | 3 | 2003 | 11 | 2 | |
| 2002 | 10 | 3 | 2002 | 14 | 0 | |
| 2001 | 8 | 4 | 2001 | 7 | 5 | |
| 2000 | 9 | 3 | 2000 | 8 | 4 | |
| 1999 | 10 | 2 | 1999 | 6 | 6 | |
| 1998 | 10 | 3 | 1998 | 11 | 1 | |
| 1997 | 12 | 0 | 1997 | 10 | 3 | |
| 1996 | 8 | 4 | 1996 | 11 | 1 | |
| 1995 | 9 | 4 | 1995 | 11 | 2 | |
| average | 8.67 | 3.83 | average | 10.06 | 2.56 | |
| total | 156.00 | 69.00 | total | 181.00 | 46.00 |
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:05 PM ^
Dear Mr. Brandon,
Please allow me to introduce myself ... I am a proud graduate of the University of Michgan ... Have had season tickets for over 30 years ... My daughter is a sophomore at our great university (Out of State Tuition I might add) ... And I have been True Blue no matter where I have lived around the world. I believe you love this university as much as I do and that you have enabled our brand tremendously in the last few years. Having attended the Final Four last year in Atlanta, I witnessed first hand how you have reignited the passion in our fan base. With that said, we both know that Football is the foundation! It is your responsibility to put the strongest leadership team together to run our program. You are doing many things right but in my humble opinion you now have enough information and results to make some tough decisions sooner rather than later. I urge you to re-evaluate our OC, our offesive line coach, our runnig backs coach and finally (and very sadly) our head coach. OC and o-line coach are in over there heads! It's time for running backs coach to move on - he's had a good career. Brady Hoke is not the short or long term solution for our school. He is a great guy ... A friend to the players ... A strong recruiter ... But he is not the leader we need to take us to the elite level in college football. You know better than us what the correct timing is to make change. We want to honor the student athletes that bleed for us every week, we dont want to negatively impact recruiting and finally we want to keep the donations coming in (your specialty). And please tell Brady that the fans opinion does matter and that our collective voice should be heard. We are your customer base ... Your goal each and every day should be to delight your customer base! I am available to discuss the above at your convenience and willingly offer my services to help correct the situation we find ourselves in.
Go Blue - Always! ejv
November 23rd, 2013 at 7:35 PM ^
Yeah, good luck with that one dude.
When an alum (with no football experience except being a season ticket holder for 30 years) makes definitive statements like, "OC and o-line coach are in over there heads! It's time for running backs coach to move on - he's had a good career. Brady Hoke is not the short or long term solution for our school..But he is not the leader we need to take us to the elite level in college football" you just make yourself look like an idiot, sorry to say. It would be like an outsider coming into YOUR workplace and trying to tell you, despite having NO CLUE how things actually work, who he thinks is incompetent.
You likely know less about what actually makes an elite college football program than Brandon knows about your job, and even less about whether or not an OC/OL coaches are "in over their heads."
"I am available to discuss the above at your convenience and willingly offer my services to help correct the situation we find ourselves in." LOL, really?!?
Hey AD, I know you're a former player and all, and I have absolutely NO IDEA about football other than sitting on my ass and watching it, but give me a call and I'll help you correct all the things that I think are wrong. LOL!
Please tell me you forgot the /s dude, please.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:08 PM ^
You do realize that many of these guys were recruited by msu and osu. I have no doubt the guys on offense would be performing better elsewhere. The issue is 100% coaching, not talent. Look at what has happened at USC since kiffen was fired. Look at Michigan's defense from 2010 compared to 2011. Shit coaching can overcome talent differential. For those pining for richrod, get real. Horrible defense is just as bad as horrible offense. It shouldn't be too much to ask for a head coach that is able to address utter incompetence within his own staff on both sides of the ball.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:17 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:56 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:21 PM ^
Michigan and Arizona passing each other going in different directions.
Thanks, Al, now back to you, Mr. Brandon.
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:30 PM ^
i think get destroyed next week; If I am meyer and I can blow this team up I do... then OSU revels in the fact that it has no in conference foes to fear... Its like USC in the early 20000s
November 23rd, 2013 at 5:43 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 6:19 PM ^
Hoke continues to be the laughing stock of the Big Ten. And that is saying something.
Think about that. Are we truly in a better place than Indiana, Purdue, or Illinois?
Hoke will never answer the difficult questions, he will never make changes for the good of the team, and he has nowhere near the coaching skills to win a National Championship.
The longer this "Gee Whiz" charade, the trite press conferences, the negligence goes on, the more it stains our University.
Enjoy it for another 12 months. Looking forward to breaking out the FlightAware one year and one week from now.
November 23rd, 2013 at 6:33 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 7:42 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 6:27 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 6:36 PM ^
November 23rd, 2013 at 6:48 PM ^
Honestly, how is Borges still employed at U-M next week? Even if it's not entirely his fault, at this point you just have to get him out of there and try something else. Anything else. It's getting to a point of absurdity. The disgrace that our players have to experience is appalling.
November 23rd, 2013 at 7:22 PM ^
Both spent their coaching career honing their skills as line coaches. Only later, to be called into action as head coaches.
For Cable, he was named head coach after the raiders fired Lane Kitty-Kiffin. While Al Davis was busy using an overhead projector, Cable was trying to learn about football coaching strategies beyond the line. Cable was a straight shooter, but was clearly in over his head.
We don't know the circumstances surrounding Hoke's ascension to Head Coach at Michigan. Was Hoke always the coach that Brandon had in mind, or was he too called into action as a last resort, like Cable?
Like Cable, Hoke is a straight shooter, but it seems that he too lacks any semblance of football coaching IQ and Strategy.
Cable lasted almost 3 years...
How long with Brady last?