[SIAP] The responsible thing to do is cancel sports until the pandemic is under control. [LOCKED]

Submitted by Nervous Bird on July 13th, 2020 at 7:26 PM

I apologize if this topic has been discussed ad nauseam on here. I have been away from posting, and reading the board since soon after the cancellation of the BIG Tournament. However, speaking of cancellations, I think the decision needs to be made to cancel all sports until the pandemic is under control. Mind you, there are not many people as sports obsessed as I have been for the past 40+ years. I am an avid watcher of football (college and pro), basketball (college and pro), baseball, tennis, boxing, horse racing. I have attended college and pro football and college games, I've visited half a dozen baseball stadiums, I subscribe to the NFL Sunday Ticket, and I can afford to cross off two of my sports bucket list items (Kentucky Derby and Wimbledon). 

I mention all of that so that there is no question about the disruption to my life due to what I'm calling for. It's time for the hard truths to be accepted - we cannot have sports during this pandemic. For the safety of the young men who entertain us daily, we cannot prioritize our enjoyment over their lives. We cannot prioritize the economic sports engine over their lives. The current discussion revolves around whether it will be safe for children to go back to in-person learning at school. If that issue is still in dispute, it seems rather frivolous to be advocating for collegiate and professional sports resuming. 

Even more, how misguided is it to have widespread, and daily, Covid19 testing, and expedited results, available for athletes when the general public and workers with inherently more essentiality (teachers) cannot receive such testing. As a society, we must separate the important from the inconsequential. Living in a majority middle-class, First World country we often elevate our conveniences, our passions, over our principles. This pandemic should inspire a clarion call to return our most prudent principles. We can live without sports until the pandemic is defeated. 

GO BLUE!

darkstar

July 13th, 2020 at 7:33 PM ^

I don't recall seeing this topic discussed here at all but I just woke up from a coma after soaking my mask in bleach and then overdosing on hydroxychloroquinine so I may have missed a few posts.

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IDKaGoodName

July 13th, 2020 at 8:25 PM ^

Jesus Christ you ass hole, how misleading...they must be inserted rectally, yes. What he failed to mention is they need to be plugged in/have batteries and turned ON when inserted. Jesus...could you imagine going to such lengths without even turning them on? Good thing I caught you before you got started. Right? RIGHT?!?

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allezbleu

July 13th, 2020 at 7:36 PM ^

Disagree with your sweeping judgement about all sports. The NBA's setup is satisfactory to me in terms of safety. The tennis tournaments (the exhibition tournaments going on right now). PGA golf. Few others. All safe enough to me.

College football is obviously not looking great.

Joined: 11/02/2008

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Nervous Bird

July 13th, 2020 at 7:49 PM ^

Russell Westbrook tested positive for Covid19 and will not be joining the Rockets in the bubble, as of yet. I highly doubt the NBA will survive Covid19-free before completion of their tournament. If one player inside the bubble gets it... that's curtains.

As far as tennis and golf, they already had an outbreak at an exhibition tennis tournament. You ever heard of Novak Djokovic? The world's number one tennis player is recovering from Covid19 after having organized and participated in an exhibition tennis event. Golf has yet to have an outbreak to my knowledge, but I'm certain that with increased playing and travel, the chances of the PGA staying virus free is infinitesimal. 

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NittanyFan

July 13th, 2020 at 7:53 PM ^

Honest question --- is there even ONE current professional/collegiate athlete who has tested positive for the virus and been hospitalized for it?  Or died from it?

Golf, by the way, I can't see them shutting down in any circumstance.  Their own commissioner has used the phrase "we need to learn to live with the virus."

The argument of "one positive case and we're shutting it all down!" seems way too much like a March way of thinking.  And I admit - that was fine for March!  We didn't know some things in March.

But it's now July.  One can only move forward if their way of thinking is open to evolution.

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Broken Brilliance

July 13th, 2020 at 8:02 PM ^

I honestly hope we reach a point in the near future where we normalize people testing positive. It just seems like insanity to react to every + as if you expected zero new cases and deaths. Might someone eventually have the walking pneumonia for a little while? Possibly. We don't know how widespread that is. We are operating based on what we don't know, rather than what we can reasonably expect.

Furthermore, as it pertains to sports,I hope we continue to trust repetitive testing and isolate the positives except without knee-jeek PULL THE PLUG reactions like we're seeing at college facilities. Quarantine all the positives and try to field a team with who is still in the clear. Maybe occasionally you get a team that takes 1 or 2 forfeits, and maybe in the future the Jazz get to keep playing without Gobert and Mitchell.

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NittanyFan

July 13th, 2020 at 8:09 PM ^

Thank you.  +100000 (if I could, instead only +1).

March 11th was scary.  Tom Hanks is in the hospital!  Rudy Gobert and Jonathan Mitchell are positive!  Fred Hoiberg looks like he is nearing death during a basketball game!  And it's all happening within a couple hours!

In that context - yes, shut it down.  Quickly!!!  We need to buy some time to assess what this is.

But, now, we know.  Athletes are going to catch the virus.  So are other people.  I like your word "normalize."

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Broken Brilliance

July 13th, 2020 at 8:15 PM ^

I guess while I have you here, I'll bring this up too. You've mentioned that the PGA has been operating and navigating positive tests. Soon we will have MLB and NBA back. Another organization that hasn't been mentioned in this space... professional wrestling in WWE and AEW hasn't stopped at any point. Full on contact with spit and blood and sweat and tag team matches have been happening in Florida where DeSantis is clearly going Swedish in his approach. They have quarantined their positive tests and haven't missed a show as far as I know. I wonder why it hasn't gotten more praise. Yes, Vince McMahon, but the other organization is run by Tony Khan, son of an NFL owner.

 

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NittanyFan

July 13th, 2020 at 8:32 PM ^

Yep.  UFC also.

I do agree that UFC, WWE and AEW are worthy of praise.  All 3 organizations have shown how to continue operations despite a pandemic, and despite the loss of millions of dollars in gates.

Whatever one thinks of McMahon, Dana and Khan's politics (and they do all lean right) --- they have shown there IS a path forward for sports in a pandemic.

-----

(speaking of McMahon, if I had a time machine, perhaps the first thing I would do is go back and tell the April 1st, 2007 version of me that one of the two people I witnessed in a given WrestleMania match would become President of the United States.  The 2007 version of me would have bet a large sum of money on McMahon).

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NittanyFan

July 13th, 2020 at 8:11 PM ^

Right.  And statisticians would know - thousands of data points is a significant sample size.  We can draw some meaningful conclusions from that.  

On March 11th, we had literally only a handful of data points.  Of course we thought differently then.

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ijohnb

July 13th, 2020 at 8:36 PM ^

I think the counter to that would be, and I think part of Nervous Bird May be saying, is that Boy Oh Boy do we ever have some shit to figure out, and perhaps with sports we are kind of shoe-horning this thing that should not be with the rest of the issues right now into the picture and it is throwing the entire discussion out of whack.  It does have real repercussions for the players who play it, both ways, from one perspective they don’t want to get sick, from the other perspective it is their livelihood (or potential livelihood), but all facets of daily life are being interrupted right now and perhaps sports has kind of jumped its spot in the pecking order.  

Like perhaps the ENTIRE discussion right now should be this - Public schools: What the fuck are we going to do about this?  Kids in school is like the number 1 thing that gives everything else in our society any context, and we are a month away from them possibly starting back up and all we got right now is a massive shrug.

As hard as it would be, perhaps side-lining at least team sports for a year may crystallize urgency v. inconvenience, because we are way down the rabbit hole right now and getting further away, not closer, to any answers or even being able to define the questions.

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Nervous Bird

July 13th, 2020 at 8:13 PM ^

I just did a google search and there seems to be only about 30 current athletes who have publicly disclosed their Covid19 status. It seems none have be hospitalized. However, 30 is a rather small sample size. I know quite a few people who have had Covid19 and none have been hospitalized. 

However, the threat is definitely there in team sports. I assume that you're fine with a potential outbreak on a team. What if it was your son or daughter, though? Would you be willing to send them out there since their chance of hospitalization is low? All it takes is one death. And, there is definitely one thing we have known throughout this pandemic - Covid19 is highly unpredictable... still.

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NittanyFan

July 13th, 2020 at 8:23 PM ^

30?  Maybe that's the number of names that are "public" as opposed to "public plus private".  Although I think even 30 is low by an order of magnitude.  Let's think about this.

Yes, many of the names haven't become public - instead we here stuff like "29 Clemson football players."  But I tend to think that if one of them did make it into a hospital, the news would leak.  There are too many insiders (for both college and pro teams) for something like that to not come out.  And if that news did leak, certain elements of the media would eat it up.  It would be a top-of-the-hour type of story.  Everyone would know.

Net: The sample size is large, and I think we would have heard of a hospitalization by this point.  And definitely would have heard of a death.  

As for 2 other comments:

(1) "what if it was your son or daughter": unless I lock my nephew/niece (I don't have kids, so I'll use them instead) in a literal bubble, the odds of them dying are non-zero.  Knowing what I know now, I would 100% accept the risk inherent with them playing sports.

(2) "COVID19 is highly unpredictable" - can you be more exact on what you mean by that?  What is unpredictable at this point?  It does seem very predictable in terms of what population cohorts are most susceptible.  That hasn't changed for 6+ months now.

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AZBlue

July 13th, 2020 at 8:33 PM ^

Arizona has a 0.18% death rate for about 75,000+ cases for people under 45.  That includes a wider, older age range and also those with pre-existing conditions/risk factors.  It therefore stands to reason that the percentage of healthy individuals aka athletes in that same range is WELL under 0.1%.

Yes there are coaches, professors, and family members that are in higher-risk categories but completely shutting down the world is not the wisest course of action imo.  Maybe take some aggressive measures to protect the most vulnerable and try to limit mass infection opportunities like bars and off campus house-parties and let the chips fall where they may....which still could very well end in no football etc. this Fall but would be decided in a logical, non-emotional way.

Just my thoughts.

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ca_prophet

July 13th, 2020 at 8:30 PM ^

Most of the ones I found have not been hospitalized.  However, Jason Collins (who retired this last offseason) was:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/coronavirus-former-nba-player-jason-collins-tests-positive-for-covid-19/

Rudy Gobert was briefly hospitalized, and still has trouble smelling:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29380004/jazz-rudy-gobert-says-trouble-smelling-3-months-coronavirus-diagnosis

and you may remember Mark Campbell:

https://247sports.com/Article/Mark-Campbell-coronavirus-story-recovery-Michigan-Wolverines-1997-National-Champions-145799755/

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allezbleu

July 13th, 2020 at 8:02 PM ^

Djokovic is a really poor example. His tournament took zero precautions. Handshakes, promotional events, stadiums full of fans, players going to night clubs. Most other tournaments are doing the polar opposite (no fans, no physical contact, no ball boys). It's an individual sport played at distance. It's safe enough.

The Westbrook example is poor as well. Westbrook tested positive. Westbrook will have to test negative before entering the bubble.

Also:

"If one player inside the bubble gets it... that's curtains."

Disagree. The NBA bubble has its risks, sure. But given the limited interaction between players and its testing resources, etc the chances of an outbreak are extant but limited in scope. I think there is a good enough chance the season gets completed successfully.

 

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Kevin13

July 13th, 2020 at 7:41 PM ^

Don’t see there being much of a chance that football is played this fall. Cases are up in 41 states now and some states hospitals are being overwhelmed now  

I agree there are much more important things then sports and we need to find a vaccine before we start risking people playing sports 

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M Go Cue

July 13th, 2020 at 8:20 PM ^

Thanks for your feedback, Nervous Bird.  I’ve forwarded your call to inaction to my boss, who happens to be the CEO of sports.  Best of luck.

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BoFan

July 13th, 2020 at 8:20 PM ^

You are correct but no one has wanted to post it as directly because of all and anti-cancelers that will neg you. And it has certainly been debated but no one has wanted to state the obvious as bluntly for the obvious reasons. 

It is quite inconceivable that all this time and money is spent in efforts to continue sports during a once a century global Pandemic when any infectious disease expert would advise against. At least for most team sports.  

A pandemic is the equivalent of a global war. One that requires great sacrifice by individuals and institutions as well as major increases investments for both resources and labor. Doing so, coming together as a country and marshaling those resources, has shown in the past that the US is second to none in defeating an enemy, in war or disease, or in achieving a seemingly unachievable  goal, like being first to the moon.  Every one of these efforts has been won with a committed national effort kicked off by a great speech (Patrick Henry, FDR, JFK, and many more). Yet, on the contrary we see the opposite in this case with morally corrupt blaming others, the lack of unity of purpose, and conflict spurred on by domestic political agendas.  

Had we the leadership we’ve had in the past, to unify the country and focus resources, we would far closer being on the road to a clear and convincing victory. 

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Nervous Bird

July 13th, 2020 at 8:29 PM ^

I don't care about the negs nor the snarky comments. I simply wanted to engage some discussion about the issue. And, I'm with you, it is quite inconceivable that we are prioritizing sports, we are getting the athletes tested and status determined with much frequency, yet many in the general population can't get tested, and/or can't get quick results (see Lance-Bottoms, and Mulvaney). But hey, all praise the sports gods. Seemingly, we're willing to entertain ourselves to death. 

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DualThreat

July 13th, 2020 at 8:22 PM ^

I saw the thread title and was wondering who of relevance was making this claim.  And then I realized it's just the OP making his grandstanding opinion matter more.  Smh.

Look, I don't think sports should be cancelled this fall (for a multitude of reasons I won't get into here).  But it's just sports, so whatever.  Cancel away. 

But do not flat out cancel in-school learning.  Especially my son's elementary school.  Allow the faculty and parents to make a choice (which is what my town did, based partly on my own recommendation no less).  I choose to send my child to school.  Not because my wife and I can't teach him at home.  Quite the opposite.  I'm working from home with flexible hours and my wife stays at home most of the time as well with flexible hours.  We have the means.  But I strongly believe there is incredible benefits to social interaction among children.  They learn far more than we realize from interacting with one another.  The benefits of this interaction, or rather, the consequences of it's lack, even for a year, are far more risky to me than a 0.01 % chance of my son dying.  There are millions of things in this world that can kill you every day.  Hell, the asinine commute to his school probably has a significant fraction of that danger built in.  I mean think about it.  They don't even have seat belts on school buses.  But overall, in my judgement, Covid-19 is not one of those things worth shutting down essential in-person learning for.  It's just not dangerous enough relative to everything else in the world out there.  But that's my choice for my family.   Don't make the choice for me.  And you make your choice for yours.

 

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Nervous Bird

July 13th, 2020 at 8:48 PM ^

Your comment would be fine if you and your family lived in a bubble. What if your son caught Covid19, was asymptomatic, and brought it home to you and your wife in the week before Thanksgiving? Then imagine going to Thanksgiving dinner and spreading Covid19 unknowingly to your parents. Further, what's going to happen when a couple of teachers die? How many teachers would have to die before the profession refused to work? Further, do you not believe the doctors who say schools are largest dangers for spreading Covid19? 

Lastly, socialization for children via the schooling system is about 150 years old. I think thousands of years of civilization says that children may be fine for a few more months.

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rob f

July 13th, 2020 at 8:43 PM ^

He's already reading and has been responding to some of the posts.

I am about to lock this as it's been rehashed numerous times. Sorry, 'Nervous Bird' but if you'd like to read other previous threads on the subject please tap the blue "Go to MGoBoard" bar on the right margin.

This isn't the only thread I'm locking in the next few minutes. At least two other threads that have essentially run their course but have needed constant monitoring are also getting locked.  I've been at this all day, 7 accounts (so far) have been banned today alone. 

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