Off-Season Meta- To "Ohio" or not t"Ohio"
It's the off-season - bear with me here (or ignore the thread).
Help me out: Am I the only one totally annoyed by people calling Ohio State "Ohio." Here's the reasons that make me feel queasy:
1. Obvs: Ohio University. It is confusing at times.
2. It's not clever. I'm all about clever, subtle jabs at other schools: such as "tOSU". Or the "We Own Penn State" chant sung to Zombie Nation at Crisler. That's clever trolling I can get behind. "Ohio" isn't really clever to me.
3. It's a schticky main-stream media non-story created at the start of Hoke's career.
4. Hoke. I can appreciate he is sincere in his Bo/Woody-isms. I hate that it's another way for people to assert an anti-intellectual label to him. Like the saying goes, if we were winning, then it would probably be ignored.
5. It's kinda disrespectful to OU. There is a school that's named Ohio in Ohio. I like them much more than OSU and therefore side with them in their spat over the use of the word.
Just had to throw that one out there. Anyone in my boat. Or am I Francis and totally need to lighten up?
UPDATE: I've appreciated the views of everyone. This is turning into an interesting topic that's more nuanced that it may initially appear. Everyone Murders (an appropriate handle for the subject) put more eloquently than I:
I've got no problem when Hoke describes OSU as "Ohio". I think it's a habit that he has, and a bit endearing because it seems like he sincerely has to choke out that word - as though choking out the whole name of "Ohio State University" (or even "Ohio State") is too hard for him to stomach. So Hoke referring to Ohio State as "Ohio" is OK by me.
When everyone else uses it, I find it confusing and a bit forced. There is a legitimate Div. I university called Ohio University, they knocked us out of the NCAA tournament one year, and their mascot famously punched and horse-collar tackled Brutus. Ohio University was founded over 60 years before OSU. Importantly, most people I've met from Ohio University dislike OSU, and look at the OSU fanbase as a bunch of meatheads. I've got some respect for Ohio University.
Consequently, for people not named Brady Hoke I'm in the call Ohio State University either "Ohio State" or "OSU" camp. (Or call them Buckeyes or "cooler poopers". Or call them "library onanists" or "patio furniture fornicators".)
I would add truck-drivers to that list as well
Imagine this:
You grow up a Michigan fan in East Lansing. You go off to California or wherever to pursue your career, and a few decades later you move back to Michigan, make a casual reference to "State" and discover that this is now thought to be disrespectful. The name is The MICHIGAN State University, thank you very much, and you will refer to us as "Michigan State".
What are you going to call them?
Eh, I don't care that people get bent out of shape over it that much. I do see the small irony there.
I don't really see how your State analogy works because MSU students/alums/fans call MSU "State" as well.
What if, when you came back, they didn't any more? They thought it was an insult instead?
Forty and fifty years ago, when Hoke lived here, OSU student/s/alums/fans called OSU "Ohio" routinely. Ohio University was referred to only as Ohio U., to avoid confusion. That changed sometime between 1980 and 2010. I wasn't here during that stretch so I don't know when it happened but I have a suspicion is was around the same time they started with the "THE" crap.
Interesting, I didn't know that. This issue is turning out to be much more fascinating and multi-layered than expected.
I know my Ohio (the state of) friends refer to Ohio U as simply "OU." Much like metro-Detroiters would refer to Oakland University.
I think the weird thing is the bass-ackwardsness of it. In most states there's a "University of STATE" and a "STATE State University." The former can be referred to by just the state name and the latter is usually referred to more specifically, or just by "state." In Ohio, it seems it's the other way, according to you. Didn't really know that. I've grown up in the "TTTHHHEEEEEEEE" era.
Interesting, I didn't know that. This issue is turning out to be much more fascinating and multi-layered than expected.
I know my Ohio (the state of) friends refer to Ohio U as simply "OU." Much like metro-Detroiters would refer to Oakland University.
I think the weird thing is the bass-ackwardsness of it. In most states there's a "University of STATE" and a "STATE State University." The former can be referred to by just the state name and the latter is usually referred to more specifically, or just by "state." In Ohio, it seems it's the other way, according to you. Didn't really know that. I've grown up in the "TTTHHHEEEEEEEE" era.
Ohio's unique, I think, in that it's the State that's the flagship university. (Pennsylvania isn't the same--the U there is private.) Usually "State" is smaller, or academically inferior. OU and Miami are good schools but OSU isn't just picking up their leftovers.
And despite the name, Ohio U.'s pretty regional. It occurs to me that the reason I've known so few alums is that the people from my neighborhood that probably would have gone there if they'd lived in the northeastern half of the state all went to Miami instead.
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Anyway, the name thing's completely changed now. I know OSU fans that called the school "Ohio" for decades and are now offended by it. And can't ever remember that it was once different. They've always been at war with Oceania.
My main point though is that Hoke's experience growing up a Michigan fan in southwestern Ohio was probably pretty similar to mine. It's an irresistable troll once you find out they hate it.
I didn't get it.
I just call them Sparty too. And the correct version is ohio (zero caps).
Go Blue!
I also will not wear the color red ....
Go Blue!
Thanks for the candid responses. It's interesting. I still think it doesn't do Hoke any favors in his attempt to appear anything but a figurehead (where I was going with anti-intellectualism; he does all these rah-rah things, doesn't wear a headset, takes coachspeak to an extreme). I just hope he turns out to be more than a cheerleader for rivalry.
Also, I'm annoyed now the "Fuck Ohio" no longer refers to the entire state. Because I hate that entire state, not just tOSU.
everyone would be fine with it because he can currently do no wrong. It was all fine to call them ohio in 2011. It's just because Hoke has lost the last two years. He can do nothing right. Good to see most people are still good with "ohio". I agree.
I've got no problem when Hoke describes OSU as "Ohio". I think it's a habit that he has, and a bit endearing because it seems like he sincerely has to choke out that word - as though choking out the whole name of "Ohio State University" (or even "Ohio State") is too hard for him to stomach. So Hoke referring to Ohio State as "Ohio" is OK by me.
When everyone else uses it, I find it confusing and a bit forced. There is a legitimate Div. I university called Ohio University, they knocked us out of the NCAA tournament one year, and their mascot famously punched and horse-collar tackled Brutus. Ohio University was founded over 60 years before OSU. Importantly, most people I've met from Ohio University dislike OSU, and look at the OSU fanbase as a bunch of meatheads. I've got some respect for Ohio University.
Consequently, for people not named Brady Hoke I'm in the call Ohio State University either "Ohio State" or "OSU" camp. (Or call them Buckeyes or "cooler poopers". Or call them "library onanists" or "patio furniture fornicators".)
...is that it's Ohio U. alums that triggered it all, rightly pissed that "Ohio" was commonly used for OSU and trying to reclaim the word from that sort of distasteful connotation. There aren't many in this corner of the state and if there was tension between the two schools or fanbases I didn't know about it. But how else to explain the whole trademark lawsuit/OHIO thing?
It's weird. I happen to know more OU alums than OSU alums. They very much split into one of two categories from what I can tell: They are either OSU fans (the significant majority) or they hate OSU.
I guess I like to side myself with the minority that hate OSU. It's made me a defacto OHIO fan.
Thanks - you stated my views much better than I did.
But I am he as you are he as you are me.
And we are all together.
I understand what you are saying. Hoke has been irresponsible. Since he started calling OSU "Ohio" he's gotten everyone confused; hell, the OSU band no longer spells out "State" in their script Ohio State, and half the fans leave, thinking that they must have made a wrong turn and ended up in Athens. Worse, the stadium dropped the "state" from the name, and just calls itself "Ohio Stadium." All the actual Ohio fans who go there are confused by the wrong-colored uniforms, but are delighted that the Bobcats are winning so many games. Worst of all, the fans sing the truncated version of Carmen Ohio State because Hoke doesn't use the "state' part of the name.
However, if we are going to be respectful, we should follow the lead of the Ohio fans and call that school in Columbus "Ohio." When they get their shit together and add the "state" back into their stadium name, marching band formation, alma mater, and cheers, we can respect that and do the same with their name.
We don't like OSU so we copy our coaches label of them because it ticks them off. It's as simple as that. It's a way to reinvigorate the rivalry that UM has been on the bad side of for a decade. It re-prioritizes the rivalry (after a coach that didn't get it), says "we're not afraid or shying away from the fact that we hate you and think we can beat you", and it shows Hoke's committed "I would have walked here" "It's Michigan for God's sake" attitude.
It would be a lot better if we were, you know, beating them
I just never capitalize "osu" (unless it's officially official, like that one proposal I helped write in response to an RFP issued by osu for some consulting services; proposed team was made up of 2 Michigan grads, an msu grad, and an IU grad).
I also generally don't capitalize "msu" and "nd".
I refer to them as Ohio all the time, but i don't really mean anything by it.
Oiho will suffice.
It all seems like an excuse to whine. Like some one says "I can't believe Ohio got another 5 star D-End" do you actually think, "damn the Bobcats are going to be good?"
I will lessen your confusion. There are three times you might hear Ohio used by a Michigan fan and mean the Ohio Bobcats:
1. Can you believe the Nebraska coach went to Ohio? (not even sure he is still there nor do I care)
2. I can't believe we got beat by Ohio in the tournament.
3. Wasn't it awesome when the Ohio mascot kick the Buckeye's ass.
All other situations we are talking about the hated Buckeyes. Sorry for any "confussion" you may be having. You may want to refresh on your second grade reading skills and understanding the meaning of words in context.
Ever notice how Ohio State fans and players almost never simply say "Ohio State" or "Buckeyes"?
It's either "OH-IO"! chants, or "GO BUCKS!" which is a male deer and not a tree nut, or NFL intros saying "THE ohio state university..."
Simply put, when your own people don't use the terms, no one should give a flying cooler poop if opposing fanbases don't either. The day the band spells out Ohio State instead of just Ohio is the day this is an issue for Michigan fans. Until such time, it's between U of Ohio and OSU.
Obivoulsy,
Ohio = The Ohio State University
OHIO = Ohio University
Alternatively,
Ohio is a reference to the University System of Ohio, of which Ohio State University is the flagship campus.
There is no University System of Ohio. OU has branch campuses with Athens being the "flagship". Akron, Bowling Green and others have branches as well. This isn't SUNY @ Buffalo, etc. We aren't that organized around here.
I stand corrected. You'll have to excuse me because that was created by Ted Strickland in 2007 after I graduated and I haven't even begun to think about college for my daughters. I have never heard of this system and bet 95% of people on the street haven't either. Sounds like some type of political BS to me, not to get political or anything.
Edit: I bet this was done when Ohio decided they wanted to include technical colleges in their "guaranteed" rate for Ohio state 529 plans to lower the average annual tuition at state "colleges".
You've spent a lot of time thinking about this. Get a hobby.
Anyone who gets confused about ohio bobcats and the bucks are pretty fuggin dumb. Do you always have to specify Miami OH from Miami FL? Pretty easy to know which team is being talked about after thinking for two consecutive seconds.
It's not supposed to be clever or a huge troll IMO. It's just a way to refer to the school. They call to themselves as ohio quite a bit. Hell, on their gold pants it says "ohio".
I feel like Brady thinks he is doing Michigan traditionalists a favor by calling them Ohio. I don't think this is the case and Bo always refered to them as Ohio State
It's an obvious reaction to Woody's famous "that school up north" line than he always used when referring to UM. Tell the truth now. That was neither clever, nor did it piss off any UM fans. It was Woody being Woody and perhaps the only people that liked hearing it were OSU fans. I mean who in the hell in their right minds would be willingly caught singing, "Don't give a damn about the whole state of Michigan," as if they, also, were taking part in something extremely well thought out and extremely clever. In both instances, it simply added to our perception - less than sophisticated - of the typical OSU fan. If Brady is still in charge when we begin beating OSU again, and I hope he is, he can call them whatever he wants. As my h.s. bb coach used to say, "I don't care if you can put the ball through the hoop using your nose, just put it in."
In this instance, I think Brady is really being un-Brady like. My personal opinion, along with Woody's reference to us is that he was attempting to do something "Tressel like" when he made his announcement in front of a packed bb arena. He then went about backing it up for far too long. Brady is simply a very nice guy that people warm to instantly. This is the main reason has recruited in a manner we haven't seen in a long, long time. I think he's best when being himself.
Call them Ohio. Two reasons:
1) That's what they call themselves half the time anyway ("OH-IO", script Ohio, etc.).
2) Despite #1, it annoys them.
If only one of these reasons were true, I wouldn't do it. But the illogical combination of #1 and #2 is too delicious to pass up.