OT: Random Covid Testing Upon Entry Into Canada
My fully vaxed family of 5 is scheduled to drive into Canada this coming Friday (8/5/22) for a long planned (pre-pandemic) fishing trip in NW Ontario. We've got the ArriveCan app and all of our documents loaded, etc.
Unfortunately I am currently recovering from COVID. Today is Day 5 so I'll be at Day 10 when we're planning to cross. Obviously if I'm still not feeling well or have symptoms or if any of us test positive using at-home antigen tests then we'll cancel the trip.
Since fully vaxed travelers can still be selected for random PCR testing I am concerned about the risk of being selected, testing positive despite being fully recovered/asymptomatic, and compelled into quarantine.
My question is: do any of you have experience this summer with crossing into Canada and being selected for random COVID testing? Any idea how frequent/common it is to be selected?
You can take a test to show you've been positive for 10 days, but I'm pretty sure it has to be a pcr test 10 days in advance of you being cleared. That's what the policy was for our Alaskan cruise and we stopped in Canada.
Yes that is still the case, so unfortunately I missed the window since my positive test was an at-home antigen test. With so little time left before traveling this option is unavailable to me. As of now my best idea is to take a pcr test a day or two before we're planning to go and if it's negative then figure if I'm randomly selected and have to take a pcr test I have a good chance that it'll be negative too.
That's what I would do. If you have just had covid and then test negative on a PCR a couple days before you enter, you are extremely unlikely to have an issue. If you're doing a PCR anyway and are able, I'd try to get the family tested as well. If they did not also get covid when you did, they're actually the ones I'd be more concerned about ending up with a positive test upon entry.
Thanks--we have easy access here to free pcr tests so all 5 of us will use those a day or two before departure. Assuming we're all negative then I think we'll be in relatively safe territory.
Thanks for the post, good to know this since I'm discussing an Alaskan Cruise early next summer with family.
I've travelled to Canada for dinner and weekend trips several times and have not once been selected for the random Covid testing, however I've only been in a car with one other person. Traveling with a family of five could certainly be viewed differently. Also, I've only crossed at the Blue Water Bridge which is the Port Huron/Sarnia border, and I'm a Port Huron resident, so I might be viewed as slightly more friendly by the Sarnia border patrol.
I was traveling through recently with our family of four. Although we were randomly selected, the agent said he would put us down as being on the road and thus unavailable to take and wait for a test. This was despite us telling him we would be there for 4 days. Not sure how common that is, or how much discretion they have, but it was our experience.
A good friend of mine who was visiting family in Toronto had to cross the border into the US at Buffalo just for an hour to drop his sister off. He was selected for COVID testing when he crossed back in to Canada. A positive result would have been a problem for him, since he was scheduled to fly back to the US a week later (luckily, he tested negative despite having come down with COVID a couple of weeks prior).
Right before you get to the border cram a decent amount of Vaseline up both nostrils. No more questions, but I got back from a foreign country that way ;-)
Dude, wow
They don’t test you on the spot, they give you a kit and tell you to test when you get where you’re going. If your trip isn’t long, you’ll be back before you even get results. My son and brother in law both got selected (from a group of 12) when we went into Ontario for a fishing trip too. It was a shit show. They gave my son an expired test and we then got caught up in bureaucratic phone call hell while they figured out what to do about that. Ultimately they said forget it and sent us on our way but then auto-called us for weeks when we got home trying to get us to report results. Tried several times to get an actual person to sort it out with no luck. My BIL did his test and then had to drive an hour out of his way to find a place to drop it off. The whole program is a mess
TLDR: I hope you don’t get selected.
Thanks--your story matches up w/a story I just heard from another friend of mine offline. He said they started robo-calling him several days after they crossed and since he didn't recognize the # he just ignored it. By the time he answered and found out they had been selected they were already back in the U.S. It still took some doing to convince them to stop calling. Sounds like the whole program is in fact a shit show. Ugh.
So, most people who enter Canada aren't tested, but a random minority are asked to get a test - and are allowed in the country anyway, where they are supposed to test (scout's honor) when they reach their destination? What is that supposed to accomplish?
Sounds like security theater.
Yes it does sound like security theater and it obviously doesn't make sense. Plus you have to test according to their plans/protocols--using their test kits, dropping off wherever they say (may be out of the way for you but they don't care) and then subject to potentially large fines if you don't comply. My sense so far is that if your trip is a short one then you might easily be back in the U.S. before you get in any trouble. But we're going for a full week so that's not a workaround for us.
I can see two reasons for the program:
1) If they start to see signals that a lot of covid is coming over the border, they may actually slow down or stop the flow of visitors, like they have done at times during the pandemic.
2) If you test positive, they can at least alert you and get you into isolation and request that you trace your main contacts (e.g. relatives you might visiting) to have them test as well. Is it as good as stopping it at the border and/or literally testing everyone? No, but that probably isn't practical and this is better than nothing.
Also, since they are tracking who they give the tests to and require you return them (rather than just having you self-report instant antigen results, it seems) you want to comply, lest you end up having issues next time you try to enter Canada. And theoretically, yeah, you could not do the swab or whatever and just send it in anyway, but they'll eventually find out there was no sample and likely ask you to do it again.
They test such a small percentage of travellers that the results would not indicate Covid crossing the border (like some new variant). Every major airport in Canada lands hundreds of planes per day and they test only a fraction.
Allegedly about 1 in 15 are tested with a 3.2% Covid positivity according to the article below. There is much scientific disagreement as to the value of such data.
It seems like Covid theatre by our government and some virtue signalling to their base, nothing more.
Who am I to argue with the guy from Canada on this! More likely than not it is more a case of "do something" rather than well thought out policy.
I do think tracking the positivity rate gives them a baseline to measure against and then respond to if it changes. But as the article points out there are surely more efficient ways to watch the rates and monitor for variants, like testing airport poop water.
I was once a professional bureaucrat and this is actually one of the more coherent policies relative to what I dealt with on a daily basis.
[COVID misinformation redacted]
Do not spread unfounded dumbfuckery about public health issues in general, come to think of it. It's dangerous behavior. - LSA
For fuck's sake, man. Maybe it's time to get the old Covid neck sharpies out of the closet.
Yes, let's just spread more misinformation out there. Better yet, let's give you the chance to link to a reliable source to back up your claim. What have you got?
what was the misinformation?
Most likely some Q conspiracy bullshit because people are idiots. At least that's what I'm attributing it to...
Probably something about it originating from a lab in Wuhan, or that the vax is ineffective, thankfully it was removed before it could harm anyone.
Answering your question would only perpetuate the spread of misinformation. It was just stupid Covid-related hoax/propaganda/anti-science bullshit
I went fishing in Manitoba this spring and only had to be tested to get back into the USA?
I had heard they had stopped requiring that though I would check the website.
If you're fully vaxed then you're exempt from mandatory testing but still subject to being selected for random testing. This may not have been true yet when you crossed in the spring.
I live near the border and you hear both Canadian and American officials fretting about the lack of cross border traffic and yet we still do stuff like random COVID testing and the ArriveCAN whatever. I wonder why no one crosses the border anymore. Hmm. Maybe because we've made it a mess to cross the border for years now and no one wants to deal with it unless they're forced to
There was a time and a place to be super cautious with covid but it's over. People are either vaccinated or they are not and random testing does zero to change that
I respect the fact that Canada is taking it seriously but their policy makes no sense. If you can prove that you're fully vaccinated then you should be exempt from random testing. Period. The chances of having Covid if you're vaxed are much lower than if you're not vaxed--why waste time and resources for anyone involved with testing those who choose to be vaccinated? Makes no sense from a public health perspective.
I respectfully disagree in that, as in many other things in life, the idea that one might be randomly selected is being used as a deterrent to an "anything goes" attitude from those considering a border crossing in either direction. Yes, maybe part "theater" but also a legitimate act of sovereignty on the part of both countries.
Interesting...but in my situation it's not a deterrent from being reckless, it's an extra burden of proof on their terms (which is their right to impose, of course). I wouldn't cross with my family if we are symptomatic or not feeling well or if any of us test positive. We are being vigilant and careful as we have for the past 2.5 years. The extra wrinkle of possible randomized testing isn't helpful (or welcoming). I'd much rather have to produce a negative test (even pcr) in order to cross the border in the first place than face the uncertainty of random testing that would take us off route (we're going to the boonies to fish) and potentially upend our whole trip. If we simply had to show negative tests then either we'd be good to go or we wouldn't cross in the first place.
I'm glad for your vigilance over the past 2.5 years, I've followed the same diligent course of action and successfully avoided covid ever since March 2020 when I almost certainly had a serious case of it that floored me for nearly two weeks/kept me home from work for nearly three weeks (back then covid tests had not yet been developed and I twice tested negative for the flu).
Unfortunately though, there's still a sizable percentage of the population who mistakenly still subscribe to the "covid is a hoax" mindset but don't want to deal with crossing the border if it means the durn guv-nern-ment is gonna hassle them.
In other words, a gram of prevention of border-crossing idiocy is worth a kilogram of cure.
Hear hear.
Trudeau is a tyrant besides their insane policies.
I'm in Canada with my family now, and we crossed the border 2 days ago. I can't speak to any other experience, but they didn't select any of us for testing. We filled in all the appropriate stuff on the ArriveCAN app, showed our documents at the border, answered the normal questions about where we were going while in Canada, and that was it. Hope you have a nice trip!
Obviously your experience is an N=1 but I appreciate the cause for optimism! Cheers and have a nice trip yourselves!
I am currently in Canada with a group of 35. Only one got selected for random test
Fam of 4 crossed. Used the app never got selected. Only stopped for gas as we crossed southern ON from MI to NY
idk- I’d avoid the possibility cause I would not want to Qtine
Thanks--as far as I can tell we can't avoid it altogether unless we cancel, which we will if any of us test positive before leaving home. As I said above if we all have negative PCR tests then at least we'll mitigate the risk of testing positive--->mandatory quarantine if we're randomly selected.
I just went over 4th of July fishing in vermillion Bay and crossed at international falls.
We were the only vehicle going thru the border at the time and the guy didn't even give a shit about the ArriveCan app.
I'm sure he brought up our arrivecan app when he scanned our passports. You shouldn't have a problem as you would only be selected if you or someone in your family looked sick.
That's exactly where we're planning to cross. I wonder if it's up to the border guards who gets randomly selected or if it's generated for them somehow. Meanwhile we'll do our best to not look sick as we cross....
PCR test can test positive for up to 12 weeks after you’ve had COVID. If you have to random test after Recent COVID, do an antigen test. Like other have said, I doubt this is an on the spot test, you just have to use a preferred test provider.
btw, I went to Canada to visit relatives in early July, they don’t mask at all and I ended up getting COVID for someone there. I wasn’t happy that they gave my wife and I COVID, then continued gathering unmasked even after we told them we caught COVID. 5 out of about 30 confirmed fro that gathering and I think the only reason why it wasn’t worse is cause 1/2 of them already had COVID in the past 3-6 months. I was vaxxed and boosted but the new strain is very contagious. I had flu like symptoms for 5 days, tested negative on day 6 and after, but was tired for another 5 days.
It's not on the spot but you have to use their test kits and it's a pcr test not an antigen test. This is the whole reason why I'm concerned. I'm sorry you and your wife got it, it definitely sucks. I got antiviral meds and believe that I'm turning a corner in my recovery but no doubt this thing is super contagious and leaves you feeling wrung out for a while.
Re: possibly testing (+) up to 12 weeks after having COVID.
Can confirm this. My symptoms started 4th of July, PCR (+) on the 5th. PCR on the 28th still (+). :-(
I just came back through the Soo a few hours ago after a week fishing near Chapleau. Last Day into Canada and today coming back was the easiest we have had in 15+ years. No vaccine questions at all at the border going into CA, only hangup is construction going in so that increased our wait last Sat. Have a good trip!
Thanks--awesome to hear you had smooth crossings in both directions. Hope you caught some biggins!
yes, I drove across from burlington to Montreal for the grand prix 6 weeks ago, used the arrivecan app and had no issues. they asked a few questions and we were through in 30 seconds.
Odds of being selected would be extremely low IMO.
ArriveCan app, however, is riddled with problems and is yet another weird idea by our current government (no politics, just facts). It's a real burden for tourist communities (think Windsor, Niagara Falls, Sault Ste. Marie) and the need for it prevents a lot of people from crossing.
Sadly, the gist of things up here is that the government just doesn't care.
Also in Canada. Can confirm. The government does not care. Laws here seem to be written to make the government money, not for the good of the people. Cannabis is an excellent example.
Someone's odds of being selected would likely be higher if they were, for example, in a vehicle adorned with Trump and infowars stickers listening to Joe Rogan.
Would I be less likely to be selected if I had some kind of anti-Trump sticker on my car and was flying my Doug Ford flag?