OT: opinions on Infinite Jest?
I could use a distraction from recruiting, and I figured this is an appropriate OT post since Brian has written at length about DFW and his influence on the blog.
I started reading a free Kindle sample of Infinite Jest and am enjoying it, but I need to make a call on whether I want to commit to a 1000+ page endeavor. DFW's writing style is great -- challenging, funny, interesting -- but my concern is whether there is a plot to the story that is going to keep me hooked. Is there much of a plot to the book? While I can admire and enjoy great prose, I usually enjoy novels much more when I empathsize with the characters and sort of cheer for or against them relating to whatever obstacles exists before them. Know what I mean? (P.S. No spoilers please.)
Anyway, any thoughts on the novel would be appreciated. Now you may resume panicking about Rashan Gary.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:51 PM ^
They run together in my head.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:52 PM ^
I recommend the abridged version, Moderate Jest.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:52 PM ^
I don't know how to answer this question since I read the thing in about four days. The plot is good but don't expect a neat bow at the end. I think the book is actually supposed to be circular.
The Ulysses comparison is a decent one but DFW is a much funnier and more accessible writer than Joyce at his most obfuscatory. Not exactly Terry Pratchett but amongst highbrow authors I think he's amongst the easiest to get a grip on.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:18 PM ^
My copy of Ulysses is about 750 pages long. I tried reading it in 2000, but stopped and gave up at about page 675 because I realized I was hopelessly lost and was just reading words--not really "reading." It remains the only book that has defeated me. But one of these days I will try again.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:32 PM ^
I had the exact same experience reading the first incomplete chapter of Finnegans Wake. I realized I had no idea of what I had just read. I mean no freakin' idea. Think of the time I saved.
Joyce's quote on that always irritated me - something along the lines of "it took me ten years to write that novel, it should take the reader just as long to read it". My initial reaction to the quote was to realize that the entire novel may be a troll job (although "troll job" wasn't in the vernacular when I tried to read it).
February 2nd, 2016 at 3:13 PM ^
I am an avid reader and decided to tackle Finnegans Wake a few months back. I had to reread the first page 4 times...and it did not go much better before I quit several hours later. I truly do not understand how anyone could comprehend what the eff is on those pages.
February 2nd, 2016 at 3:16 PM ^
Only book that's defeated me - Gravity's Rainbow.
Not because the plot is so difficult to understand, but I find myself asking myself about 200 pages in "Why do I care about these people?" I will say, Infinite Jest gave me none of that. It took me a very long time to read it, but it was worth every word. I pine for the day when I'll have the courage and intestinal fortitude to read it again (cuz it's a loooong book).
February 2nd, 2016 at 5:01 PM ^
I echo your sentiment, though I did finish Gravity's Rainbow. It, to me, was like a poor man's version of Infinite Jest (which makes sense, seeing as Infinite Jest was written after Gravity's Rainbow, and Pynchon's influence on DFW is readily apparent when one compares the styles of the two authors).
February 2nd, 2016 at 7:46 PM ^
In fact, I read Gravity's Rainbow because of Infinite Jest...GR is a little bit better but both books are products of their time...but The Crying of Lot 49 is still Pynchon's best.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:54 PM ^
I got about 100 pages in, got to the footnote about Wheelchair Assassins that's like 40 pages in the appendix, and put the book down.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:54 PM ^
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:55 PM ^
I think it is the single most rewarding book I've ever read. I read it the month before starting grad school after having left a job when I could really dedicate time to it. I don't think it's the kind of book you can read casually.
As far as your concerns, I found the first ~200 pages close to unreadable, especially some of the dialogue in the halfway house setting. It reminded me of Naked Lunch, a book I could not finish. Once you get accostomed to the colloquial verbiage and acronyms, you can really start investing in the plot. Ultimately, it was the plot and even moreso the characters that absolutely hooked me. DFW's modern use of language may be unparalleled, but the characters I think really make this book. Things eventually do come together, but it takes a great deal of set up, which is probably where you are a bit stuck. Keep going and I think you'll be hooked.
Someday I hope to get through the first 100 pages of Gravity's Rainbow. Haven't succeeded yet.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:58 PM ^
100%. I finished it, and IMMEDIATELY started it again. Even better the second time around. Really brutal first 200 pages or so, like mentioned above. Much, much easier to understand the second time through. Get halfway through it, you'll really want to finish.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:01 PM ^
I found that pretty readable - if extraordinarily dark - for whatever reason. I could not finish Nova Express by Burroughs. I'm not even sure it was meant to be finished.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:12 PM ^
Thanks - I'm sold on it.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:19 PM ^
I want to get through this book. I really enjoy the parts I'm internalizing. The problem is that my life lends itself to lots of casual reading, which this book decidedly isn't.
I'm honestly considering taking a week off of work just to devote to IJ. If I did that, I have little doubt that it would become one of my all time favorites.
This is how I finally got through Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, and now I've read that book probably 4 times.
February 2nd, 2016 at 3:14 PM ^
Exactly the same experience for me with IJ and Naked Lunch. I just couldn't "get it" for whatever reason. Maybe I will go back to IJ, but I need something after 250-300 pages. I guess I'm not up for the long burn stories when there is so much to do and so little time as it is.
February 2nd, 2016 at 3:48 PM ^
is great. Once you realise that you can't really hope to keep a foothold and just let go, I think is when it gets really good. It's like inherent vice..if you try to keep a grasp on things you will just continue to get more and more lost.
Naked Lunch is so fucking cool. Every word, sentence just oozes with extraordinary sleekness. Lol @ Buroughs murdering his wife in mexico.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:58 PM ^
It's 56 hours and a 4/5* on audible, but any MGo opinions?
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:48 PM ^
Going to the cites when they're referenced is key, so you need the book too. The audio book calls out the number, but doesn't read the cite.
***Edit***
...or at least, doesn't read the cite "in real time," i.e. when referenced in the text. The end notes may be all read at the end of the book in sequence, but that really doesn't do the listener much good.
February 2nd, 2016 at 1:59 PM ^
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:00 PM ^
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:03 PM ^
It's great. It's one of my absolute favorite novels.
That said, it's long. It has many plots, most of which are engaging and often very fun, but the plot alone isn't going to propel you through it quickly or something. If you're going to read it, I'd say just accept that you'll be reading it for a while. Don't expect to plow through it quickly or anything.
But Brian's right - his nonfiction essays are easily the best way into his writing. Even his short stories take some getting used to, if you aren't familiar with him.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:10 PM ^
One of my favorite non-fiction pieces of his is readily found on Youtube. It's DFW reading his own piece on Illinois baton twirlers. I'm not a big fan of his fiction but he did edit an anthology of short stories, the first of which is one of the best short stories I've ever read. Highly recommend.
February 2nd, 2016 at 3:19 PM ^
of the short story?
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:08 PM ^
80% of people that have read Infinite Jest have not read Infinite Jest.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:08 PM ^
... but I just stumbled upon, "Wool". Finished a 500 page book in one plane ride and all nighter, because I was so engaged. Highly recommended for Sci-Fi, distopian fans.
And, yes, I realize I am really late to the game on the book. I'm not a huge Sci-Fi guy, and picked it up on a whim and loved it.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:14 PM ^
I also picked it up on a whim and really liked it. Quick and fun read. Apparently there are sequels, but I haven't heard anything (good or bad) about them.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:46 PM ^
There's an entire series. The first couple are free as e-books and then they start putting small charges on the following books, ramping up to normal prices. It's an interesting business model and it worked for me. I liked the series and the spin-offs.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:11 PM ^
If you can make it past the first 200-250 pages, you'll love it. The first 100 or so pages I was pretty lost (this is normal).
I would suggest finding someone you know who has read the entire thing to help keep you going. I had a friend who badgered me to read it for years who sort of made sure I wasn't completely lost.
I offered to do this for two of my cousins but they're quitters. The Howling Fantods is a great resource, too. Infinite Atlas is fun, too.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:13 PM ^
Infinite Jest has so many different vignettes and side stories that reading a sample is not going to be particularly helpful.
The book is full of awesome sections that would read really well as a sample. Then it has just as many bewildering or not so awesome sections.
I read it. I'm glad I read it. I doubt I'll read it again. There's some really great stuff and lots of stuff that makes you want to strangle the author or at the very least wonder if he had any editor at all.
In particular, I am not fond of the assbackwards way stuff gets explained in IJ. DFW goes on for hundreds of pages about stuff that you cannot possibly understand--only to explain it on page 510. I am not fond of authors being so purposefully non-understanable.
I'd say give it a shot but be prepared to power through it. There are some real gems in there. Including a very real discussion of addiction, depression, and overcoming both.
I have read and heard various people, including the author, explain what IJ is about. For me, it is a book about addiction. We know now, what we didn't know before, that all of the rehab and halfway house stuff comes from DFW's personal life.
If you want to work up to IJ, which I didn't, you might start with A Supposedly Fun Thing I will Never Do Again. It is just the vignettes, non-fiction though, without all the purposeful confusion and plot.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:16 PM ^
The only book that I recall reading (or trying to) that for all practical purposes required two bookmarks. Exactly how this would work on an e-reader or audiobook, I have NO idea. I tried and failed to get through it a couple of times, then lent it out to someone who never gave it back. Best of luck!
February 2nd, 2016 at 4:04 PM ^
If you're reading it on something like a kindle (the way I've been working through it for roughly a year, now), it links to the end notes right on the page, so you just tap the link to go to the relevant end note. You need to set a digital bookmark on the page you're leaving, though, so you can go back.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:17 PM ^
Worthwhile for the fictional filmography in the footnotes alone.
Which is actually available in full here:
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:17 PM ^
Just don't be a dumbass and think that putting Lemon Pledge on your arms will prevent sunburn.
I really liked the book, but the footnote device that DFW uses can be tiresome. It helped that I played tennis competitively when I was growing up, which made some plot lines more engaging than they otherwise would have been.
If you're going for a non-fiction essay, I'd start with Shipping Out which you can find online Harper's via a quick Google search. Not only was it one of the funniest things I've ever read, it showed me that in some ways my world view paralleled his - not necessarily a great thing. And, as others point out above, it's not quite the slog that DFW's fiction is.
Also, he has a lengthy review of Bryan Garner's rewrite of A Dictionary of Modern American Usage that is well worth reading - especially if you're interested in reading about writing. FWIW, I got bored quickly with The Pale King and have not tried to pick it back up. So I'm not quite the fanboy of DFW that some are.
But my favorite book of all time is probably Gravity's Rainbow, which is dense and not really a page-turner.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:19 PM ^
Infinite Jest was my favorite book in college. Funny, weird, ambitious, and ernest.
The endnotes are burdensome, but offer some sly commentary on the rest of the book. For example James Incandenza's Complete Filmography offers such cinematic gems as:
"'Found Drama III'…conceptual, conceptually unfilmable. UNRELEASED"
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:20 PM ^
Infinite Jest was amazing to me. It can be difficult (I actually took notes to keep track of all the characters and plotlines), but Wallace was so interesting and funny page-by-page, I was always excited to keep reading. Nothing is neatly tied up--there is much debate over what happened. So if you aren't enjoying the process, it may not be worth it.
His nonfiction is probably better. Start with "A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again" (the actual essay, not the book) or my favorite, "Ticket to the Fair," which you can access for free on Harper's website:
http://harpers.org/wp-content/uploads/HarpersMagazine-1994-07-0001729.p…
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:23 PM ^
I took a ton of notes, too. I even made a (maybe laminated...at work) card with the Subsidized Time years on them in order just to keep it straight. Year of the Tucks Medicated Pad just wasn't enough.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:23 PM ^
DFW really wanted you to feel like you were reading a book, and put a lot of it into end notes. That might make the kindle experience a bit different, I don't know.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:27 PM ^
As someone else said above, it is probably the most rewarding book I've ever read. The prose is incredible (with maybe one or two short exceptions), yes. But I think it works best for you if you can relate to or are interested in one or more of the underlying issues the book is "about"--addiction, tennis, depression, and identity were the big things for me. I love it like no other book.
That said, I don't force it on anyone. It's not for everyone, and I don't think it's about (as some have maybe sarcastically suggested above) intelligence or snobbery. My wife is insanely smart, a serious reader, etc, and I know it just isn't her cup of tea. There are some books I'd recommend to almost anyone. Infinite Jest is not one of those books.
Unlike some people who love it, I won't say it isn't "hard." It was hard for me, at first at least. I wanted to throw it against a wall several times. It is long. It often seems to be heading off in too many directions. It has lots of endnotes, some of which go on for what seems like forever. One of the things that kept me going was I had read somewhere that readers often get stymied early on, but if you make it past the first 250 pages, you won't want to put it down. This is exactly what happened to me, but for me it was more like 300 or 350 pages. But once I got to that point, it had its hooks in me deep. As I neared the end, I was starting to think it wasn't long enough.
As to your specific questions, there's a plot for sure. It is multifaceted and not presented linearly, but it is there. If you want a straight forward story that goes directly from start to finish, this isn't that. That said, I became very invested in the characters--the structure of the book didn't hurt me in that regard, it might have actually even helped.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:24 PM ^
My brother, who is much smarter, gave me this book. I tried but couldn't make it past 50 pages. I did like the clouds on the cover though.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:24 PM ^
My brother, who is much smarter, gave me this book. I tried but couldn't make it past 50 pages. I did like the clouds on the cover though.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:34 PM ^
While I would agree that it is well-written and occasionally amusing, I'd take a pass on "Infinite Jest". It has no payoff, and has benefitted from years and years of mythologizing from critics that don't seem to have finished the book themselves. Unless you're the kind of person that gets off on reading long books and putting them on the shelf so that people know how smart you are...
Now if you want to waste weeks of your life on a good book, just read "Gravity's Rainbow" by Thomas Pynchon, which is hundreds of times more clever than anything by Wallace, and has an ending!
Also, if you need some weird "Infinite Jest" reference explained in the two sentence version, I'm sure some of the dudes on this thread would oblige.
February 2nd, 2016 at 7:52 PM ^
GR was better than IJ but not that much better.
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:36 PM ^
Never quite got the memo on DFW. Too many run-ons and parentheticals for my taste.
But then I don't like Hemingway either, so... *shrug*
February 2nd, 2016 at 2:41 PM ^
Early in the text, maybe 100 pages in, there is a certain endnote detailing the entire filmography of a major character. Read up to that point, and if his experimental film plot descriptions interest you, then IJ is for you. If it feels like a tedious slog, then set it aside.