OT: Likely Big Ten action against PSU, too?
U Iowa President Sally Mason told the Des Moines Register today that the B1G has jurisdiction to punish PSU and will be watching the NCAA's actions closely before considering how to address the Sandusky issue; she's current chair of the conference's presidents and chancellors.
According to last week's Chronicle For Higher Education "conference bylaws require any member that fails to show complete, accurate information during an investigation to 'show cause why its membership in the conference should not be suspended or terminated.'"
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19633881
I am in the dark about how the presidents and chancellors may be viewing the crimes and scandal associated with them, and curious how people think or are aware this is being viewed in academic quarters (what is being mumbled by the professoriat and admin around the water cooler?) An associated question is just how PSU was viewed before the scandal--as a member in good standing of the Big Ten?
Would some kind of probationary status for PSU be appropriate?
Is whether the B1G lifts its "No scholarships for transfers within the conference" rule.
in this particular situation the last thing the B10 wants is a mass exodus of talented players to other conferences without affecting said conferences scholarship numbers.
They absolutely should in a situation like this. Those players should be able to go absolutely anywhere they want.
Yes, but it was recently changed. Players can receive scholarships, but they lose a year of eligibility while they sit out for NCAA reasons. I have no idea how players receiving a waiver for immediate eligibility would be effected.
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/58173/big-ten…
This is by far the most horrible story I have ever had the displeasure of watching unfold. I can only hope that all the parties involved can move on.
Problem is that's way easier for me to say than one of Sandusky's victims who has had their ENTIRE LIFE ruined by this sick sick tradgedy. I can only hope this story ends quickly and that it is all resolved before it could, dare I say it, get uglier and more horrible.
Death penalty or not tormorrow, I just want to finally be able to refer to the Penn State scandal in past tense.
If what was posted in the other thread is true (5 year bowl ban and tv ban) I have to think their days are numbered in the B10. They're dragging down the rest of the conference and won't be bringing anything to the table at all with a hobbled football program, in addition to already being a nightmare to associate with.
Seriously, at this point there's no reason to keep them around and with what's about to happen tomorrow there'll also be every reason to boot them. The B10 would be incredibly stupid not to.
I have no particular insight into the situation, but some things to consider.
1. I seriously doubt a TV ban is in the cards. I saw some leaks and rumors on other boards talking about how existing TV contracts are a big reason why the NCAA never considered the Death Penalty. A TV ban would run into the same problem, both legally and monetarily.
2. The Big10 is a unique conference in the degree to which membership extends well beyond athletics. There are academic and research considerations on top of athletic ones. And these other aspects of conference membership are arguably more important than football (e.g., CIC membership). So there are reasons to keep PSU around that don't have anything to do with their football program.
As I said, I have no special insight into the situation. To be honest, I feel less sure than most others on the board seem to be about what the NCAA is going to do, and I have zero idea what kind of penalty the conference would hand down.
For what it's worth, the ESPN Big10 blog's twitter account responded with "Yes. And quickly" to the question of whether or not the conference will act to punish PSU.
Yes, the Big Ten extends well beyond athletics. And so did this scandal (Spanier, Schultz, probably at least some members of the board).
The whole place is rotten and tainted for the forseeable future. Do everyone a favor and cut ties with them now.
B1G Ten Bloggers tends to think the B1G will act soon (perhaps tomorrow):
Yes. And quickly. RT @RossMacLochness: @ESPN_BigTen Do you think B1G will act on top of NCAA?
and more info:
Again, I don't expect Big Ten to expel Penn St, although there has been discussion. But as stated in December, B1G can impose own sanctions
Whenever I think of all of this crap and utter evil that has gone on at penn stat this is the the song I hear.
and one more:
Yep. B1G controls $$$ RT @mjmajewski: @ESPN_BigTen What kind of penalties would the B1G impose on top of the NCAA? Cuts to revenue sharing?
tomorrow is going to be one hell of an interesting day, that's for sure.
Holy shit.
Pay no attention to this. Some random guy posted this on a Rivals message board. First one right off the bat rules it out -- he says there will be no football this season, which would be considered a "death penalty", and is off the table.
Ah, wasn't aware of that. One of my Facebook friends posted it so I wasn't sure of the source and didn't even see the first listed penalty. Carry on everybody
Holy shit: seconded
The "relegation" punishment would be kind of interesting. Allow them to field a team, but not in the Football Bowl Subdivision for a year or two. I think that'd actually be a reasonable compromise (FCS teams still have athletic scholarships). They'd probably lose a lot of transfers but those who want to be there and play football would be able to.
What does this mean for the coaches? I see how the student athletes have the freedom to leave, but what about the newly hired coaches? Would you continue to keep that position knowing this is falling on you?
And I don't feel bad for their coaches to any large extent. Take a look at when they were hired:
Bill O'Brien: 1/2012
Mac McWhorter: 1/2012
Stan Hixon: 2/2012
Charles London: 2/2012
Larry Johnson: 1996
Ron Vanderlinden: 2001
John Strollo: 1/2012
Ted Roof: 1/2012
John Butler: 1/2012
Charlie Fisher: 2/2012
One guy is held over from the previous staff, everyone else accepted their position knowing that there was a huge scandal looming.
I didn't know the hire dates, and that changes my thought completely. I was under the impression they were talking about contracts and jobs before any of this was released. I haven't followed this whole process too closely, so ignore my ignorance.
But I missed a typo in that first post, it's obviously two that were held over, not one. Just the OCD-esque part of me coming out.
I doubt they make them shut down the program. But I'm betting a hefty bowl ban and giant scholarship cuts are in the offing. That will be coupled with an allowance to current players to transfer wherever. B1G will slap a hammer on revenue (none from bowl payouts / league championship / B1G Network) for a few years.
With the possibility of a $60 million membership fee from the NCAA and revenue sharing cuts from the B1G, at what point does Penn State just decide that they don't have an atheltic department as of next Tuesday and dump all of this "debt"?
They had their chance. Pitt is a more interesting proposition, even more so in light of recent events.
The story goes...When PSU was still an independent, they and Joe wanted to join the Big East which made infinetly more sense since they were already playing what was essentially a Big East schedule. 3 of PSU's rival schools were also in the Big East at the time West Va, Syracuse, & Pitt. Rumor has alsways been that Pitt blocked their entry and Joe never forgave them. That's why it has always been maintained that Pitt would never join the B10.
Now most of those obstacles have been removed. Pitt has committed to joining the ACC, which is also a horrible fit. Add to that the very real possibility that the ACC couild look just like the Big East in a few years with the SEC/B12 poaching teams and Pitt may be very receptive to an offer now.
Yeah unless Notre Dame came to us and said they wanted in, which won't happen, I really don't think the B1G has any viable options for getting another school. Notre Dame would jump to the Big East, ACC or Big 12 before they came to us.
Virginia is an amazing school, but doesn't really fit the culture of the B1G, and in my opinion, it doesn't really add much in the way of revenue for big sports. Football and basketball there are meh.
Pitt football. Meh. Basketball? Talented choke artists.
I thought about Virginia Tech a little bit, which would be a huge get as far as football goes, but they're another culture misfit, and the academics, as a whole, just aren't there for B1G standards.
I think PSU is here to stay.
I would imagine Penn State will cut some non-revenue sports and people will wonder wtf NCAA was thinking.
I would imagine Penn State will cut some non-revenue sports and people will wonder wtf Spanier, Paterno, Curely, etc. were thinking.
Personally, if Michigan were to have sanctions like this, and with how sensitive this matter is(children being involved) I don't know how I could wear those colors in public.
I couldn't imagine jumping ship, unless I had some kind of ties to another school. What would be more likely, I think, would be to simply lose interest in the sport and focus on other ones.
We saw this to some extent with Michigan basketball- it took a big hit in attendance/fan interest after the Ed Martin scandal and firing of Steve Fisher (the crappy teams that followed didn't help either).
your point, and it would be hard for me to just start rooting for another team. But like others, my ties to the University came from the football team. From there it split off into all directions, supporting the other teams and groups and what use to be a fandom for a football team turned into a love for a University. With that said, Bo is and was a huge factor and "anchor" in what Michigan meant to me. If something were to come out that a similar cover up was pointed back to him, it would just shake up everything. Thus, questioning everything I use to think and believe in. I don't think I could root for another team, especially with the passion I have for Michigan. I was just curious what others would do, if they would just stick through it and look to better days.
Your alma mater surely means more to you than just the football team. In that sense most people don't really choose to be fans of Michigan, or Penn State or whoever. Especially if it runs in your family. The football program also shouldn't be soley representatie of those who lead it. I wouldn't be ashamed to wear a Michigan shirt. The football program is the fans, the past players, the culture, etc. Not necessarily what the leaders perpetuate it to be.
That's still not the same though. Their identity as a school is defined by one man. No other major university can say that. JoePa created Penn State football and will also be a major part of what possibly destroys it. JoePa is the identity of Penn State, and now he'll be identified as a child rape enabler.
I'm not sure that Penn State people would agree with you, even if Paterno is as inextricably linked with the institution as any one person could ever be. A typical U of M student identifies with the sports programs, of course, but to them the University is more than just the sport; it is the campus, and buildings, and professors, and friends they've made. The memories they have.
If you found out some crucial person in Michigan's pantheon was the enabler of a criminal, you'd be sickened--but that would never take away the memories you have or the allegiance you feel. It might depress those feelings, but they don't go away.
Take Fielding H. Yost, for example, who was openly racist and acted upon it (for one, arguing against and acting to prevent the recruitment of African American players when he was the athletic director). Many of us are aware of this and yet still choose to honor him as a hero of Michigan Football. And that despite the fact that we have no personal memory of Michigan under Yost, which should make it easier for us to cast him aside.
It's up to the fans to decide who represents them. I don't think they would really care about the outside world if they support each other with memories of great, respectable players, gameday experiences, etc. Joe Paterno is our representative of Penn State, and for many fans he still is theirs as well. They can change that, though.
This is all just sickening. A rush to sentence, a rush to enforce, the discussion, the inevitable devestation to the program... nothing about this is enjoyable to me.
We're just a couple of weeks separated from the Freeh report, and there has been no time for perspective, so people are making choices based on emotion. Problem is, there isn't much choice--to have this hanging over football with no resolution would consume yet another season and do no good for anybody; and to do nothing would be unacceptable.
I don't think they'll do anything that actively harms other teams. That would take the Death Penalty and a TV ban off the table, at least in conference. Now, they could level a home game ban, which would be creative. Obviously, whatever the NCAA actually does will render PSU a semi-permanent bottom-dweller.
I'm not sure what more the B1G could do that wouldn't damage the conference itself. Expulsion isn't just harmful to PSU--it harms the whole conference. Of course, if PSU gets hit hard enough, they might just drop sports or leave the conference entirely.
The silver lining here: The extreme reaction by all parties reinforces that sports may be amusing, but that in the larger scale of things sports are just not that important.
Harmful to the whole conference? As in more harmful to it than having the site of arguably the worst scandal in the history of American universities as a charter member?
The Big Ten could replace Penn State in a cocaine heartbeat. Notre Dame would probably turn down an overture, but Pittsburgh would jump at the chance to replace PSU in the conference just as they will inevitably replace them soon as the state of Pennsylvania's dominant college football program.
Pitt? Meh. Mizzou? Meh. Rutgers? Meh. Maryland? Meh. Notre Dame? TO HELL.
what about WVU?
not up to snuff academically. Not even close.
Yep. Every one one of those you listed are superior to the Penn State brand. Don't hold onto the past. PSU will never be PSU again.
its been nearly 9 months since the initial release of the Grand Jury Report last fall. Make no mistake the NCAA has been in full contact with PSU and having lengthy discussions about this for nearly all of that time frame if not longer, whether publicly stated or not.
Second, the NCAA sent out an official letter of inquiry last November, PSU had several months to answer the 4 key questions posed by the NCAA. The NCAA most likely did indeed have an answer ready for PSU but decided to wait for the Freeh report which we now have. Possibly even at the request of PSU.
Nothing short of expulsion will please me. The idea of Michigan playing Penn State in a sporting event that helps that institution make money is repellant.
How Delaney and B1G presidents can even consider wanting to still be associated with PSU is beyond me but the right decision is rarely made with these people today.