OT - Kendall Marshall can't really be contemplating playing, right?
- He has a surgical inciscion from his surgery, which would almost certainly come apart.
- He has a SCREW in his BONE! There is zero chance that the bone has had time to heal around the screw sufficiently for stability.
- Messing around with a scaphoid bone injury is taking a huge risk regarding your career. Just some of the potential career threatening issues:
Nonunions
A bone that fails to heal is called a nonunion. Nonunions are more common after scaphoid fractures because blood supply to the scaphoid bone is poor. Blood supply to the bone is very important in its healing. Bones need blood to carry oxygen and nutrients to the site of the fracture.
Avascular Necrosis
When the scaphoid is broken, especially when the fragments have moved apart (displaced), the blood supply to those fragments may be disrupted. Sometimes, the blood supply to one of the fragments is so poor that the piece does not get enough nutrients and the cells in that fragment die. This is called avascular necrosis. A bone graft with its own blood supply (vascularized graft) is the most effective treatment for this condition.
Arthritis
Over time, nonunion and avascular necrosis of the scaphoid can lead to arthritis of the wrist. Symptoms of arthritis in the wrist that results from scaphoid nonunion or avascular necrosis include:
- Aching in the wrist
- Decreased range of motion of the wrist
- Pain with activities such as lifting or gripping
I have a hard time believing that any team doctor would OK this kid to play in the Final Four, let alone this weekend. This kid would have to be dumb as a box of rocks to even consider jeopardizing extremely motivated and completely let down by those that profess to have his best interest in mind to even consider messing around with this kind of injury. Then I read his latest quote:
"If I can get a good amount of range of motion in my wrist, and I can go out there and compete and not play in any pain, those are the two things I'm looking for."
Then I see information like this...
Unless your wrist is deformed, it might not be obvious that the scaphoid bone is broken. In some cases, the pain is not severe, and may be mistaken for a sprain.
and I wonder just how far UNC will be willing to go, risking this kid's future for a shot at another banner. UNC and Roy Williams should have him shut down, and not be leading along this media circus.
that the doctors probably have a better idea of his long term safety than you do from reading up side-effects on webMD
...who happens to be a doctor. The summation of possible issues with such an injury was just easier to get off of a website. When I read what had happened to Marshall to her and what the treatment was, and then that he was contemplating playing she said there is zero chance that he plays.
Back seat doctoring with what little irrelevent/relevant medical information is released is easy to do. Once the patient is in front of you, it's a whole other story. I'm sure your wife is a great doctor. And as a great doctor, I'm sure she knows how different reading up a case and actually working a case is.
Unless your wife has actually examined him, how knowledgeable can she be about his condition? Any doctor can tell you that every patient's body is different.
It's not his shooting wrist, but I'd be very surprised if he plays and even moreso if he is effective after just having this surgery earlier in the week.
Do point guards with NBA potential like this guy really have a "shooting wrist" that they can afford to jeopardize?
Hell no, but that's the reasoning all my fair-weathered NC friends are offering.
Hell no, but that's the reasoning all my fair-weathered NC friends are offering.
EDIT- Yeah yeah double post, my bad- not used to the insane mouse sensitivity on this laptop..
his shooting wrist. Also the injury was in a position that gets good blood supply. He won't play vs. Ohio but he is going to try it out against KU.
Also, I understand your wife is a doctor, but unless she performed the surgery I doubt she can say "zero chance" for the rest of the tournament.
Oh she can say it. I just heard it, swear to god.
I trust her on these things, though she be human. It isn't something that can heal in less than a week. It puts his future prospects at some risk. This can't be disputed really.
Your wife can say whatever she wants. So can I. It doesn't mean either of us know what we're talking about.
Your wife could be the best doctor on the planet, but it's possible she just doesn't know exactly what happened. Since I'm assuming she didn't talk to the doctor who performed the surgery, and since whatever she read was probably from a reporter who is not himself a surgeon, it's possible she's making this decision on less than perfect information.
To call a kid "Dumb as a box of rocks" because he wants to do everything possible to get back out there with his teammates to try to win a National Championship is a little much.
This is true. I was too harsh with that. He would be "dumb as a box of rocks" or at least the team doctors would be to let him play at this point. Considering it isn't dumb though, that is true - just wishful thinking.
I think that's probably a decision for him to make. Let's be honest though, if he was on our team and played, he would be universally loved instead of being called dumb.
I disagree with the notion that it is a decision for him to make. If what the OP is saying is true, its a decision for the coach to do what is best for the player and his future, which is not play. Obviously, each case is different, but if a coach is willing to risk a kid's career for winning a game, he isn't making the right decision. 99% of college athletes would try to play, even if it isn't the best thing for them.
Yes. This is exactly what I am trying to get at. They should have him shut down to be looking out for his best interests long-term, not leaving the decision up to a kid.
If Trey Burke had this injury and a chance to play I feel confident that Beilein would sit him. That is one of the reasons I love Beilein so much as our coach - he cares more about his players that anything else I think.
Clean break. Scaphoid bone. Said to be in an area that gets good blood supply, as opposed to scaphoid fractures that do not. Screw inserted.
Surgery went great; father, son, and coach are all upbeat (father posts on the UNC messageboard I am a member of).
He lists himself as day to day, but it is VERY unlikely that he would play against Ohio (similar to what Henson did vs FSU). They are scheduled to perform range of motion tests in St. Louis (probably Friday), and from that point, he will report to Coach Williams how he feels. They'll sit down with the doctors (assuming they cleared him to play) and the Coach and decide what to do, assuming Kendall's pain tolerance is such that he would like to give it a go.
All in all, right now everything post-surgery has gone as well as it possibly could have. They can defeat Ohio sans Marshall (unfortunately, Dexter Strickland - back up PG - blew out his knee earlier this year, and Leslie McDonald - who would have been the first SG off of the bench - blew out his knee this past summer). Stilman White/Justin Watts will be the primary ballhandlers.
All that profess to care for this kid are failing him at a time that he needs their guidence. This type of injury can get much worse from playing with it.
Over 350 dimes in a season - that is NBA potential not worth wasting on a NCAA tourney game.
You're way to upset about something you are not involved in. I'm assuming you have OHIO in the Elite 8?
I'm sure the doctors actually involved are giving him reccomendations, and I highly doubt Roy Williams and co. would let him play if there was a very high chance he gets injured.
And Marshall's only a sophomore. Maybe he plans on coming back, which if so he's have the entire off season to rehab. Perhaps he really wants a Championship and feel he is well enough to help his team.
I have UNC winning (this game at least) in all my brackets except that one where Michigan was to win. This injury can be made much worse by playing and can be career-threatening.
I'm sure the doctors hwo performed the surgery have Ohio winning the game. Why else would they go against the word of your wife, who has no idea what the injury actually looked like.
You must have bought 100 KONY action kits.
I had a plate put in my wrist after breaking it. I am currently 8 1/2 weeks out from my surgery, the doctor wont even clear me to play hockey (how i broke it) for another 3 1/2 weeks and even then he is worried. I wasnt even allowed to start strengthing my wrist for 6 weeks. Personally i couldnt even dribble with my broken wrist right now and I am much further along, but I did have a worse break.
I also had pins put in my broke finger 2 years ago, same dr. Once again it was 4 weeks before I was able to do anything active.
Anything less than a month seem crazy even on a clean break.
Basically your post says:
I had a worse injury, and mine took longer to heal than his.
March 23rd, 2012 at 10:44 AM ^
Actually only one injury was worse, one not as bad. Point is the recovery from any surgery of the hand/wirst takes more than a week. In the recent press conference his coach said that he cant even brush his teeth, and you expect him to heal in 2 days.
March 22nd, 2012 at 10:39 PM ^
I love when 'average joe' relates his injury sustained in some pick up league to have a relevant opinion on how an elite athlete is going to react to the same injury; it just isn't relevant.
March 23rd, 2012 at 10:43 AM ^
I forgot that athletes are like wolverine and have super healing. It doesnt matter how you get injured be it a beer league or the NCAA. The point is that after any surgery on your hand/wrist you lose a ton of movement, movement that a NCAA player would need.
March 23rd, 2012 at 11:01 AM ^
I had a similar injury and didn't want to bust out the "it happened to me" because I agree with the sentiment that I am not an elite athlete. Regardless, I agree with your assessment. We're all human and our bones are essentially the same. Elite athlete/best doctors or not, I just don't see how he will be able to play basketball soon. I am sure he will be able to sooner than I could, but it seems far fetched that he can recover in a week.
I am a fan of UNC. Used to live down there by RTP for three years. I have more UNC alum friends than I can count (many of which hope he'll play). I just get frustrated when people put in a position to look out for others (ie Roy Williams) don't, and instead look out for themselves and their future prospects.
Im a UNC hoops fan (ya I like UNC hoops and Michigan football, sue me) and from everything I have read he will not play against Ohio, but will 100% play on Sunday. Like others have mentioned, the break occurred in an area which receives good supply. It could have been a lot worse. Also, it is his non shooting hand, and from all the reports I have seen, he is returning for his junior year. This, of course, is not confirmed, but if it is, he would have all summer to rehab the wrist injury that is already healing after 2 days of surgery. If Kendall or Roy felt there was a chance of his career being in jeopardy, then I really dont think he would play at all. Kendall is a tough dude and a great teammate, so if he feels like he can play, he's going to play. I guess we will have to wait and see. I am all for Kendall's health over a national championship. It sucks, but winning is and never will be more important than the health of an athlete.
Surgically implanted screws in bone don't heal any appreciable amount in two days.
Go Heels though. I agree there when Michigan isn't playing them.
Why is two days important? When was the surgery? Unless it's tomorrow, he'll have more than two days to heal. The game in question is on Sunday.
Maybe our friend Deep to Braylon can answer whether or not a surgery of this nature can really heal much in less than a week? Being serious.
Lets Get Denarded-
Where have you heard that he will 100% play on Sunday? I have been looking for a good UNC blog for a long time and I am not really impressed with what I've found.
I usually go on tar heel illustrated. Its a rivals page. Its free to look at posts, but you have to be a member to post yourself. Anyways, it's nothing definitive, but people were claiming that he's going to play on sunday. I wont believe it until I see it. I really havent found many good UNC blogs myself.
Thanks, I'll check it out. I usually read tarheelblog and carolinamarch. Tarheelblog content isn't bad and they produce quite a bit of it, but the comments are annoying to me. Carolinamarch used to have good content, but he doesn't post very often, and lately there have been too many ads on the site, and the analysis is lacking in the game recaps.
It is easy to see how special this site is once you start looking elsewhere.
This is about as good of time as any for a first post. I am an orthopaedic surgeon, so this time I actually may have something to add...
The OP is right that the scaphoid bone has a lot of bad things that can happen when it is fractured. That being said, a lot of new evidence actually suggests that if the bone is broken in an area of good blood supply and is not displaced (just cracked, not out of place), fixing it with a screw will allow athletes return to play quickly and safely. Granted, 1 week is still incredibly fast, but not out of the realm of possibility. Hes a tough kid if he can pull it off though, its going to be sore.
Great time for a first post!
Thank you for the insider info. If this is indeed not going to threaten his future in basketball, and they can tell him that with certainty, by all means he should play if he wants to.
Having had a pin and a wire put into my fingers at one point, all this talk of putting screws in bones makes me sick to my stomach. Did you need to know this? Surprisingly, yes - it will be on the quiz.
this is such a dumb thread. Roy, the doctors, Marshall and his parents will sit down and figure it out. And without being a specialist and actually seeing the relevant medicial specifics, xrays etc, you have zero business talking about the medical aspects of this.
We all sit here regularly and discuss sports "without being a specialist and actually seeing the relevant ... specifics" all the time. Isn't that what discussion forums are for, after all?
No way back from it. Maybe Dick Durbin will look into these issues next. The kid should take care of his body, a playoff pass will not ruin his career.