OT- Game of Thrones S05 E09: The Dance of Dragons
Arya is on her first mission. I have a feeling that a "Golem Mountain" will make an appearance this episode or next. Cersei would you like more water to lap up off the floor? We all know episode nines are insane and sometimes TV history. What's your fav episode 9 between "Ned's Dead', "Blackwater", "Red Wedding", "Wildlings @ Wall" and tonights? I'm going with "Ned's Dead' just for the simple fact that showed me anybody can get it.
Do you know why all the world hates a Lannister?
Was expecting much more from tonight's episode. I know it would have been hard to come close to Hardhome, but they didn't even really try. Maybe big shit will happen next week. I think they set it up with Jon, Arya and I expect more from Stannis and Co. No appearance from Cersei either so we'll see plenty of her next week, I imagine.
Yes, you should expect to see plenty of Cersei next week.
Yeah that Shireen thing was totally a Martin move. That is the only reason in the episode a couple weeks ago he said she was his daughter and hugged her. Just to get your hopes up before he smashes them to pieces. Same feeling as Robb dying at the red wedding.
I didn't see any comments on it but I actually loved the Ser Jorah stuff this episode. I thought he was going to get killed in the pit while fighting the last guy. Just let him get close enough where you think he might get back w/ Daenerys and then he would die. But I loved him tossing that spear up there javelin-style.
Curious to see what Arya does next episode. Thought Jaqen would see through her lie. Is she going rogue?
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I was feeling bad for the dragon getting the spears stuck in him. I am thinking if the dragons are going to be able to help their "momma" rule the kindoms, they will need armour built for them.
Yeah dragon fire is supposed to so hot that is basically melts humans instantly. I imagine it's much cheaper to just have a few stunt men on fire flailing around than a CGI effect of humans getting instantly roasted. Agree about the dragons they are supposed get almost killed some cheap ass spears chucks by some scrub insurgents. The books depict dragons as essentially unstoppable. i.e. just a few can take out entire Westerosi armies.
Perhaps its the Dragon age that determines that. Full grown adult as pictured below seems to be the most menacing.
Just think of it as a manifestation of the "Ninja's can only attack one at a time" rule.
has gone completely off the rails. I mean, I know they had to just start making stuff up because GRRM is the slowest f***ing writer on the planet, but the IMO the quality has taken such a massive nosedive that it's been jarring. It seems that since they don't have any of George's actual material to go with, they are just choosing to do the most horrible and shocking thing at every turn to get people to talk about the show.
Really disappointed. In one season it's gone from one of my favoite shows on TV to something that I'm not ever sure how much I want to continue watching. It still has great moments, but the bad moments have become really bad, and some of the moments are just sickening.
Excuse me for a second whilst I step up on to my soapbox.
Was watching that scene with Shireen last night hard? Yes.
Was watching Ned die, the Red Wedding, the creation of 'Reek', the burning of the King Beyond the Wall, and all the other deaths (except for perhaps, Jojen) also hard to some level?
This show is fucking BRUTAL. You've been watching it for 5 seasons now. Don't you get that? If you think this show has a happy ending, you're an idiot. I can't wait for all the outrage when at the end it's just a bunch of the Others standing around in a desolated world.
I think people forget that the things in the show - beheadings, burning at the stake, etc. All this stuff used to happen with regularity in the past. So, maybe I'm just shrugging it all off because I'm just reminded of Vlad the Impaler, Ghengis Khan, the War of the Roses, Ivan the Terrible, etc.
I think it's simply tougher when these atrocities are done to innocent kid characters that have had a chance to become "fan favorites". Nobody gave a fuck that Lommy was stabbed in the throat in season 2 because nobody really had a chance to know Lommy.
As Sandor said, "What the fuck's a Lommy?"
But, when you get to spend a ton of time with a character that is a sweet little girl that teaches grizzled old men to read, you dont' really want to see her burned at the stake.
'the fuck's a lommy?
ISIS executes women and children. Read up on the Hutus and Tutsi's during the Rwandan genocide. Wikipedia the Shining Path in Argentina or virtually any country that has experienced revolution. The world is violent folks and always has been.. We are lucky to live in a country and time with an unprecented level of personal security. For most humans throughout most of human time life is violent, brutish and short.
the difference here IMO is that in the past the TV show was (mostly) doing horrible things that were part of the plot of books that were already written. And most of those horrible things were in the plot for specific reasons.
Now they are just making horrible things up to get press. In the books, this event clearly hasn't happened and based on everying we know about the Stannis character, won't ever happen (at least not at Stannis' hand) unless he suffers some sort of psychotic break. Hell, the preview chapters of the next book have Stannis imploring his men that if he should fall they should pledge their allegiance to Shireen and put HER on the Iron Throne. So they basically created this "father burns his daughter at the stake" brutality just to cause the biggest controversy possible.
Dunno why that makes it a lot worse to me, but it does. Seems like they are just going for the largest shock value possible. I get it--they want to be the Madonna of TV shows. Fine. Just not sure I'm interested anymore.
Now they are just making horrible things up to get press. In the books, this event clearly hasn't happened and based on everying we know about the Stannis character, won't ever happen (at least not at Stannis' hand) unless he suffers some sort of psychotic break. Hell, the preview chapters of the next book have Stannis imploring his men that if he should fall they should pledge their allegiance to Shireen and put HER on the Iron Throne. So they basically created this "father burns his daughter at the stake" brutality just to cause the biggest controversy possible.Simply watching the Inside the Episode clip refutes all these statements.
they say GRRM told them and whatever ends up happening to Shireen in the books, I'll pretty much bet anything things play out significantly different than they did in that episode last night. It won't be "Oh there was a minor raid on our camp, let's burn my daughter at the stake because I'm a f***ing psychopath."
Although, I don't think HBO is doing things for shock value.
If they were looking for that they would have showed her burning, and Sansa's wedding night wouldn't have been off camera.
pretty well sums up my feelings.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/06/08/game-of-thrones-season-…
Sure it could have been better executed but you're speculating about the intetions of the writers and poorly (wildly) at that. As if somebody at the writer's meeting for this episode said alright guys let's create the biggest controversity possible. I want SO much controversy and shock value! I can't believe people get so mad at TV shows.
i want a pet dragon
Operative lesson here is don't post angry and don't post simple condemnation in lieu of intelligent criticism. Bad on me for indulging in an emotional reaction and inflicting it on y'all, I am sorry for that and I know better. No hard feelings against those who neg-bombed me or called me out, you were right.
For those interested, now that I've had time to cool off:
1. When I first read the Red Wedding scene, I threw the book across the room and couldn't even look at it for a week. This scene in the show engendered the same reaction and I did walk away from the TV while my wife finished watching, from what I understand the last scene is pretty cool. I went back to the books and will go back to the TV show, because the world Martin has created and the characters in it are compelling and I am still emotionally invested in several of them and so I went back to reading and loving the series(just as I assume I will do with the show), it just took some time. That said, I'm the type of person that needs someone to root for and I feel like that's gradually being taken away. As a result I am getting less and less interested as it goes on and am a little frustrated by the tone the series(both book and TV show) has taken. In my opinion the red wedding, while a genius twist, removed a lot of the narrative thrust of the series and Martin has been spinning his wheels a bit ever since he pulled off his neat little trick.
2. I'm still upset and feel that is a decision that was made for shock value and there wasn't enough set-up to make it pay off in the show. Even if you go with the "Stannis believes he's Azor Ahai" argument, you've got a situation in which he's trying to take a castle and not do anything to take on some sort of existential threat. Resulting in him deciding to do a terrible thing that feels completely out of character. So this feels like yet another decision to make the most awful thing that could possibly happen happen and that gets tiresome. Martin can object to being called nhilistic all he wants, but it's hard to argue he hasn't earned that criticism.
TL:DR: I did not post intelligently last night and got what I deserved. Yes, I am still going to keep watching but am getting less and less interested and am getting closer to simply walking away which would have been inconceivable at the start of the season.
A scene I liked was when Bronn mentioned that the pie looked good, right before taking an elbow to the chops. The king said perhaps you would like some soup?
And I'm wondering - if you threw a book across the room when something upsetting happened, do you throw your Kindle when the show upsets you?
Wow. Thanks for the morning dose of self-indulgence. I am guessing people were not all that concerned with the intricacies of your personal GOT psychology.
the show has been telegraphing Shireen being burned at the stake pretty much since Robert's bastard escaped in the row boat, as she was the only one left with king's blood.
It was, however, way out of character for Stannins. I think he'll be killed by Davos, if not in the battle for Winterfell.
I wonder if the internet will be as butthurt about a child being burned alive as they were about someone getting raped?
The Stannis/Davos split will probably be his undoing. I don't think Stannis makes it past the Boltons, but I don't think Davos will be the one to kill him. That might be too predictable for the writers to have happen. I just don't think there is enough charachter development for Stannis in the show for him to be involved in the endgame.
People upset about Stannis killing his daughter have forgotten he had his brother killed. He's made it clear he'll do anything to be king.
Yeah, this was forshadowed for a long time... Even before this season. The idea that they pulled this out of their ass just because they wanted to do "the worst thing possible" is ridiculous. If that was ther goal they've been building to it for some time.
Never understood the "didn't need to actually show it" criticism either. The brutally that feels so personal is a core part of the show. If you can't handle it? Maybe find another show?
People upset that it's not the books (I'm a fan myself)? Get over it already. Nobody cares.
I just watched the episode again (this time less drunk). I was rattled by it last night, but I missed a ton of small things and now that I've watched it twice, I think it was a great episode and a worthy lead up to what should be an exciting finale.
Those saying it is out of character for Stannis are kind of missing the bigger picture. I suspect they may be saying that because Stannis hasn't burned Shireen in the books. HOWEVA, it's not a huge leap to say it is going to happen in the books (especially now). Remember, in the books, Davos is nowhere near Stannis' army, so he wouldn't be around to prevent Shireen's sacrifice. Back to Stannis, he's always been a nutjob. He's just better at hiding it. He does buy into the religious zealotry of Melisandre, even though he wants to deny it. Re-watch his scene with Shireen, it's all there. He thinks he's Azor Ahai reborn - the Mesiah. He thinks he has to make this sacrifice. He's tried to deny it and at times has denied it, but clearly he's fucked up and, with Melisandre's help, he believes (or wants to believe) in himself as the mesiah and this is the required sacrifice.
Of course, I suspect he's wrong. I hope he's wrong. To me it was a HUGE commentary against religious zealotry by D&D and GRRM. The second half of the episode was about life and murder and the extremity of killing an innocent child highlights the power that religion has on people in the world of GoT/ASoIaF.
As for the rest of the episode:
Yay, Arya gonna get some vengence soon. Maybe? We shall see, but I liked those two storylines coming together. Mace continues to be a funny, bumbling idiot.
Dorne FINALLY gets some good scenes. If they continue this path, and based on a certain chapter in the books, I think the show's visit to Dorne will have a bit of a redemption.
Castle Black be tense, yo.
And the Dany escape was everything you could ask for. Blockbuster-movie type action there. Amazing to see it in a TV show. They wound that and Jorah together nicely.
Anyone else see the Unsullied as a metaphor for the US Army? Unbeatable on the battlefield, not so great as an occupation force in hostile urban areas.
Not sure that was the intention but it's a great observation. They need a new commander who can alter their tactics to urban warfare. Long ass spears/pikes are meant for open field battles in tight formations, not street fighting in cities. I thought they all carried short swords - their biggest comparables Roman legions or Greek phalanxes even did that - for when close quarters one on one combat is needed.
You're rooting for Arya to get some vengence? I'm rooting for her to die and have this (seemingly worthless) storyline be over with.
Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. I also can't see how this Faceless Men storyline ties back into the overall storyline of the entire series of books.
actually makes some sense to me.
I disagree on Stannis buying into the religious zealotry but I can absolutely see how someone would disagree with me. The fact that I do disagree on that point, however, is why I still don't think that action was in character for Stannis despite how foreshadowed the event itself was.
That's all besides the point I'm trying to make, however, which is 'yeah... I guess that does make sense.' So thanks.
To add to your own point, Azor Ahai killed his own wife in order to ensure his own power, creating Lightbringer by murdering his wife (not a spoiler but the story was mentioned on the show in passing a long time ago I believe. Also, it's background lore).
Stannis killing Shireen stills seems far too abrupt of a change in him - especially since, for all he knows, Jon Snow, the Night's Watch, and a bunch of wildlings might show up to fight for him in the near future. We can add it to Cersei's newfound stupidity as far as major mistakes in character development this season.
I've loved this show, but this has been a pretty mediocre season. Ramsey is a sadist, and we see that ad nauseum. Dorne and the Sand Snakes are uninteresting and/or too Xena-like. Arya's training has been pretty dull. Brienne is apparently just hanging out. The Sparrows have inexplicably taken police control of King's Landing. Too many things don't work.
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When has Cersei been this dumb before? She's certainly endured worse than Marjorie taunting her without being rash, but maybe I'm missing something.
but she is definitely not as smart as she thinks she is. One dumb move she made was alienating the last Lannister who is skilled in the art of war, her uncle Kevan.