OT: Benjamin St. Juste makes game winning defensive play on Thursday Night Football
October 14th, 2022 at 10:52 AM ^
Yeah, sometimes, doctors are completely wrong, and I recall him being quite pissed on the exit...
October 14th, 2022 at 10:55 AM ^
Agreed, but anyone who thinks that Harbaugh processed him just needs to look at our DB situation in 2020...
October 14th, 2022 at 11:49 AM ^
If we would have had him and Ambry Thomas available that season would looks fairly different.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:06 AM ^
I don't think anyone here has seen his medical records. I think that means no one is in a position to comment on the decision-making process of the people involved.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:29 AM ^
100% agree with this. We don’t know what his medical records indicated. We don’t know what thought process the physician / physicians had. Surely they had no malice and I will choose to believe they were looking out for the best regarding this young man. But…they were still wrong.
October 14th, 2022 at 12:09 PM ^
We hear all the time (Miami for instance) where medical records fail to protect the players on the field. It is unfortunate that it impacted his life so much, but I am ok being overly cautious and making the wrong conclusions on the right side of safety then vice versa.
October 14th, 2022 at 2:25 PM ^
How can we know they are wrong without seeing them? Just because he is playing in the NFL right now doesn't mean he isn't at an increased risk.
October 14th, 2022 at 10:52 PM ^
"Medicine is not a science!"
--Dr Leo Spaceman
October 14th, 2022 at 11:06 AM ^
Ding Ding Ding. It is amazing how so many think if you have a "Dr." in front of your name you can't be wrong.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:42 AM ^
Half of all doctors finished in the bottom half of their class…
October 14th, 2022 at 12:11 PM ^
If you or someone you loved went through med school and residency, you would know how fucking smart and prepared those bottom half doctors are
October 14th, 2022 at 1:36 PM ^
Found one of the bottom half doctors!
October 14th, 2022 at 8:13 PM ^
No way in hell
October 14th, 2022 at 12:25 PM ^
that reminds me of a joke my old man used to tell all the time: You know what they call people who got C’s and D’s in medical school? Doctor.
rim shot
October 14th, 2022 at 3:09 PM ^
I thought the joke was:
You know what they call people who got C’s and D’s in medical school? A dentist.
October 14th, 2022 at 1:53 PM ^
Yeah and they all know more than the 99% of us who didn't even apply to med school.
October 14th, 2022 at 12:29 PM ^
well, i do, and i am never wrong so .... yea
October 14th, 2022 at 12:32 PM ^
Why is it that every time St Juste's name comes up, we get an army of uninformed idiots bagging on the doctors who medically retired him at Michigan?
Doctors, especially Michigan doctors, make the best decisions using their best judgment with the information they have on hand, for the most part. Why continue to do this?
October 14th, 2022 at 1:40 PM ^
Who bagged on them? Show me one poster in this thread (above yours - I haven't read below yet) that bagged on any of Michigan's doctors. Just one!
A couple people said the docs were wrong based on St Juste's NFL success. But that's not 'bagging' on them - it's stating a fact without calling them out! Not one person has disparaged any doctor here.
Yet, here you are, disparaging people for things they haven't done.
October 14th, 2022 at 2:18 PM ^
I don't know what the literal translation of the word "bagging" is... but this kinda feels like a person taking an unnecessary shot at the people on the medical staff who make these decisions. I don't have a dog in this hunt, or really give a shit what dumb things random people say on here. But "not one person has disparaged" etc. maybe isn't a hill you want to die on when it involves faith that other people haven't said or implied stupid things.
So obviously something went wrong. If he was processed, seems like there was a big error in player evaluation. If it was a real medical, seems like some doctor was grossly over-conservative given that he's been cleared, variously, by the doctors at U Minnesota, at the NFL Combine and with the Commanders (and IIRC, he's been reasonably injury-free since he left Michigan).
Either way, it seems like someone screwed the pooch.
His whole eloquent "someone screwed the pooch" kinda throws out the idea that no one is being called out.
Again, I couldn't really care less. I just remember this thread from a couple months ago. My simple point I made still remains for me... medical professionals can have opposing opinions. It's why second opinions exist.
BSJ may just end up being one of those names that sticks with people, like Trevor Pryce or Justin Boren.
October 14th, 2022 at 1:47 PM ^
No one is bagging on them. I agree with you, they made the best decision in their own clinical judgement. That decision just turned out to be wrong.
And I have sympathy for Dr.'s. Essentially, due to the nature of litigation, doctors are essentially taught to never say "I was wrong".
October 14th, 2022 at 2:43 PM ^
What evidence is there that the "decision just turned out to be wrong?"
Just because he's currently playing in the NFL doesn't mean the doctors were wrong.
Just because he's currently playing in the NFL doesn't mean that playing football isn't putting him at a high risk of incurring some sort of injury or harm.
He and his family - and maybe his own doctors - may have decided to ignore the advice/recommendations of the Michigan doctors...and may be doing so at his own peril.
None of us have seen his medical records, so we have no way of knowing whether the recommendations of the Michigan doctors were "wrong."
October 14th, 2022 at 7:03 PM ^
“What evidence is there…….”. Ummmmm, how about him playing at MN, being ALL B10 and now playing in the NFL. If that isn’t evidence that they were wrong, what evidence do you need? Seriously.
I would ask you, what evidence do you have that they made the right decision?
October 14th, 2022 at 1:48 PM ^
Sometimes people don't understand forecasts versus predictions. Experts make decisions based on percentages, they know there's a chance work out a few different ways. Doesn't mean they're wrong.
October 14th, 2022 at 1:59 PM ^
You sound like a lawyer. I'm gonna tell my wife that next time. "I wasn't making a claim Honey...I was forecasting!".
October 14th, 2022 at 4:02 PM ^
I have this on autoplay:
"We treat you, but we treat you based on the thousands of people that came before you because that's our best indicator of how you will do given a particular problem. How do we know it will take 6 weeks in a cast to heal your fracture? Because that was the case for the thousands of humans that came before. Everyone has a story about someone who was given 6 months to live and here they are 5 years later. Thank god, sometimes we are wrong or a person varies from the norm."
October 14th, 2022 at 10:59 AM ^
Yeah, unless you're a Bears fan which, thankfully, I'm not.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:29 AM ^
I am a Bears fan. I can confirm, it sucks
October 14th, 2022 at 11:34 AM ^
you're on a board full of Lions fans dude. insert justintimberlakestare.gif.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:49 AM ^
Justin Fields is yet another in a long line of failed OSU QB's.
He's awful.
October 14th, 2022 at 12:10 PM ^
To be fair, he busted off the scramble to get them in position to win the game, but thankfully he failed in the clutch.
October 14th, 2022 at 12:26 PM ^
to be fair his OL sucks ass.
October 14th, 2022 at 4:22 PM ^
Yeah, I feel bad for him. He's not helping himself, but they're helping him even less than that. They really suck.
October 14th, 2022 at 12:29 PM ^
Isn't it fascinating how an OSU QB has ever really made it in the pros. Stroud might be the first.
October 14th, 2022 at 12:33 PM ^
As long as it doesn't snow or get cold or someone sneeze near him. He probably can only play home game if he is drafted by teams in the south or west.
October 14th, 2022 at 12:53 PM ^
Stroud is yet another in a long line of OSU QBs who benefit from having more natural talent around him than the teams he plays against. He is talented but has had the best WRs in the country to throw the ball to. Unfortunately, their WR room is ridiculous. Look no further than The Game last season to see what happens to Stroud when the WRs can't just outrun everyone.
October 14th, 2022 at 1:38 PM ^
and make circus catches on poorly thrown balls.....
I don't believe stroud is a great qb.... he's a good qb with an incredible amount of talent around him.
October 14th, 2022 at 1:42 PM ^
He still threw for almost 400 yards. I was actually rather impressed with him in that game, and he's hardly the reason we beat them. Stroud is miles better than Fields.
Fields had the media slobbering all over him from day 1 and looked absolutely terrible against Indiana and Northwestern. He was defended then and continues to be defended when anyone with eyes can see that he's just not all that great. On the contrary, Stroud took a lot of shit early on, kept battling, and earned the reputation he's got today.
October 14th, 2022 at 4:23 PM ^
Lifelong Chicagoan here. It's time for the Halas' to sell the team. They're the issue.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:04 AM ^
Saw on Wikipedia page he graduated in 2 years w a BS in Sports Mgt from UM. How on earth does one do that and play D1 football at the same time? I would normally think he was just given a degree in name only but Harbaugh notoriously is adamant about the student part of student athlete.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:09 AM ^
Didn't he enroll early? That buys him a semester. Summers + a semester post his second football season at UM obviously got him enough credits somehow. Also if he knew he was medical redshirting year 2, he could have just LOADED up on courses.
Hard to say without having his records, obviously.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:14 AM ^
Here's how:
1) Come to AA right after graduating from high school ... take spring and summer term classes before the rest of your non-Student/Athlete freshman class arrives. (This accelerates even further for the early enrollees who skip the last semester of their HS Senior Year).
2) Dedicated academic resources (tutors) + study table throughout the season ... serious help in keeping on top of your coursework, despite the rigors of the season
3) spring/summer term classes when most non-S/As have gone home May-August
If you are a football player who is serious about taking advantage of the academic opportunities and resources available at U-M, you can accomplish some amazing things.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:34 AM ^
tspoon,
Exactly. I have had a singular thought about this since Harbaugh arrived, and it follows the approach you described.
In high school, determine which course(s) you can pursue with AP credit. And, understand how "good" performance (a 4 or 5) on the AP test can support your academic path in college.
Enroll early, which means January. That gives you the winter, spring, and summer terms to both acclimate to the rigors of collegiate athletics and advance your academic record. Those three terms - could result in between 32 and 36 credits.
If the student athlete redshirts, that provides for an extra year of eligibility.
After three full years - let's say the student athlete enrolled in January 2020, by the end of the spring term (end of June) 2023, they could have earned 120 credits. Depending on degree program - that would mean the completion of an undergraduate degree program.
The result of a redshirt season in 2020, and playing in 2021 and 2022 means the student athlete has two remaining years of eligibility and would be a graduate transfer if they elected to transfer, with an undergraduate degree from Michigan
October 14th, 2022 at 2:27 PM ^
Realistically, how many D1 recruits take AP tests? I'm guessing not many.
As I recall, St. Juste came from Canada, so he didn't have AP testing. He balled-out getting his degree, which turned out to his advantage.
October 14th, 2022 at 2:58 PM ^
Gruden,
As an international student, I believe IB is a similar offering to AP, so - he could have taken advantage of that.
Though I believe I understand the point you're making about AP tests and student athletes, I may not hold your opinion. As an example, a very good friend of mine's son was a "strong" football player. They enjoyed having head coaches which included Nick Saban over for "in home" recruiting visits. Though he had offers from most of the SEC schools, he decided to attend a west coast school in Palo Alto - Stanford. And, interestingly enough - their head coach was named - Jim Harbaugh.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:15 AM ^
He'll tell you he's a Michigan guy.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:05 AM ^
I'm a Lions fan (God help me) and any Bears loss is my gain, but why such vitriol against the Bears? They're a relatively benign program with no noticeably hate worthy players or coaches right?
October 14th, 2022 at 11:10 AM ^
Well, they are quarterbacked by a Buckeye.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:36 AM ^
For a certain definition of "quarterbacked"... sure, I guess.
