OT: Are Divisions necessary?

so apparently it's all your fault.

If you want a conference championship game I believe it is necessary given the current rules. But I'm with you, I'd rather have it gone down like that.

Nope. 

1. I could be wrong, but I think the NCAA dictates that if you have a championship game, you need to have divisions.

2. Divisions are just one system for organizing the league and determining who plays in the championship game. Your suggestion is just another means of determining who plays without the additional organizational elements. Personally, I think the benefits of structuring a 12+ team conference into divisions outweigh the costs, provided the conference is split sensibly.

I think Stanford would disagree that Oregon is the best team in the Pac.

There should be a eight team playoff system for the B1G Championship.

...

dotdotdot

DOTDOTDOT

(but really don't tell Delaney)

I think divisions are the fairest and best way to do it if done correctly.  This year in the Big Ten is a bit of an abberation b/c of OSU's and PSU's problems.  If a division winner is decided only by intra-division games, then I believe that's better than just picking the teams with the best record out of a giant conference.  Imagine, for example, a future Big Ten in which two teams have the best two records because they both drew a still-down Illinois, a crippled PSU, Indiana, Rutgers, and Maryland.  That would be really unfair to those who didn't have such luck.

In addition to the above, divisions maintain the familiarity with one's opponents that conferences used to bring.  Divisions keep Michigan, for example, tied to Minnesota, NW, Iowa, etc., whereas Michigan would just play most teams every couple of years (save OSU or MSU, presumably) without divisions, thus watering down any sort of conference rivalry. 

Teams A, B, and C are all 7-1 in conference play.

Team A beat team B, didn't play C, lost to....eh, let's say Northwestern (who isn't A, B, or C)

Team B lost to team A, beat team C

Team C lost to team B, didn't play A (and beat Northwestern)

Who goes to the Championship game?

Answer: Divisions

Divisions have their problems, but once conferences become too big to have a complete head-to-head, they're better than the alternative. With 11 teams, a single table set up barely worked in the Big 10, there were lots of seasons where the conference winner was partially determined by who teams didn't face, rather than who they beat. 

You need some way to create a fair comparative evaluation within conferences too large to allow complete head-to-heads. Divisions functionally create a series of shared games between intradivision teams, allowing a fairer evaluation than a system in which conference games are chosen at random. The current setup is not ideal, from a competitive equity standpoint. By guaranteeing fixed interdivision rivals, the league has created a system in which some teams will have more difficult conference schedules across time than others (UM playing OSU, vs. MSU playing Indiana). But the division setup does create a process for determining conference champions that is not entirely capricious.

This year's Big 10 matchup would have looked better had Ohio State not been on probation. Georgia Tech (and Georgia for that matter) raise the problem of divisions. But they seem the least bad solution to the large conference problem.

Interesting.  

Look at conference record over the last 10 years (For the new comers, use their conference record from previous conference).  Create a balanced schedule where each team plays 4 games against the top half, 4 games against the bottom half.  When picking from each bucket, always pick the teams that have gone the most years without facing each other.  Each team can have two "protected" games.  If your two protected teams are in, say, the top half, you then only play two other top half teams.

It's a bit messy, but could likely be done if, say, you are a conference that makes half a BILLION dollars a year and should be able to do something like creating a balanced schedule.

You'd have to release the schedule in 2 year chunks to ensure home-and-home stuff and guarantee each school gets enough home games, but that shouldn't be a deal breaker.  If they followed something like that and today released the 2014-2015 schedule, that'd be great.

Of course, I think this thing is headed toward a 16 team conference, in which case I'd like to see 4 divisions of 4 with a 4 team conference playoff.  Go NFL style where you round robin pair divisions against each other so that you can accurately determine division champs.  Keep a protected game or two.  If that protected game happens to be against a team in a third division, it can't count towards division standings since not all teams in the division share that opponent.

As much as I hate conference realignment, the theory crafting around how to do it right is kinda fun.  Of course, we know that none of our "good" ideas will be what they go with because Comcast & ESPN rule the world, Jim Delaney is a billion dollar puppet, and the University Presidents only care about how much money it infuses into the campuses.

....if each team had 2-3 protected rivalry games and all other conf games were drafted at the beginning of the season and the two top teams are in the championship game.

Will never happen though.

that permits a 13th game requires that it be a conference championship game between division champs.

I think the Big10 is earning itself some disfavor by pursuing realignment right now so I'd not be at all sure that it would be easy for the B10 to push changes on that front.

Yes, I qualify as an old guy, but please, can't we go back to the Big Ten that we knew and loved in the '70s? Enough with all this expansion already. 12 teams in the league is ridiculous to begin with. Why couldn't they stop at 12, figure out some way to rescue the scheduling alliance with the PAC-12 and move on? 

Believe me, I'm all for the modern age, with UM adapting by getting faster, quicker players, and playing nationally ranked teams that positiion UM for a shot at the BCS title, but some things are sacred. The final game of the regular season should be against Ohio (State). There shouldn't be any division or sub-divisions when it comes to the Big Ten. 

I don't know what to think anymore. All of this reallignment is driving me to drink. 

As most of us are coming to realize, the B1G will be at 16 soon enough. I don't think there is any way around the divisional format and a conference title game.

As most of us are coming to realize, the B1G will be at 16 soon enough. I don't think there is any way around the divisional format and a conference title game.

Each time I was given an option to comment, I stated "get rid of divisions"

So my answer is no they are not.  Sure you have to have balanced schedules, but there's an argument that playing within a weaker division (or one where the top teams are ineligible)  is an advantage. 

Also, you then don't need to name them. 

I've heard this a lot this year, but remember that OSU and PSU were ineligible. If we had OSU vs Nebraska, that would be the two best teams based on the season to that point. Wisconsin was a fluke this year. I'd prefer not to have divisions (see: Big 12, 2010), but it's going to become a necessary evil for the B1G superconference that is forming.

Who knows, but this whole thing sucks. It reminds me of world war II. Countries forming alliances and all that bullshit.

I haven't thought this all the way through, but when the B1G reaches 16 teams, would 4 four team divisions make sense?  Each team could play their three divisional foes, a protected rivalry, and one game against a team in each of the other three divisions each year.  The 8th conference game could be a match up game against a sister division (#1 in the Yost division vs. #1 in the Bo division for instance).  This would result in a four team conference tournament to crown the champion and would elimiate the problem of playing cross divisional foes once per decade.

I'm sure there are many problems with this idea.  Thoughts?

Maybe static divisions aren't necessary.

There was a post on here not too long about it, so I don't take credit for the idea, but I've been thinking about the logistics of it, almost like rotating divisions.

Assuming a 14 team conference (but this model would work better with 16 teams):

Two Pods (say A, B) of 3 teams and two pods of 4 teams (say C, D).  Teams in the same pod (i.e. Pod A) play each other every year.  Each 3 team pod is matched up with a 4 team pod, switching every year.  That means that 6 games are taken care of, with 1 crossover from each of the other pods you aren't matched with for a total of 8 conference games.  In this model, you will play everyone in your conference no fewer than every 3 years.

Basically, rotating divisions.  Two pods combined make up one half (or division) of the conference, pod combinations will produce two division champions who will play for the conference championship.

EDIT:
The idea is expandable (or even preferable) with 16 teams.  You'd have four four-team pods, with each pod always playing the other 3 in their pod, then matched up with another of the pods (rotates each year) and plays everyone in that pod.  Assuming we go to 9 conference games with a 16 team conference, that leaves 2 crossover games, one from each pod your team's pod isn't matched with for the year.

Now, with this model, you have two options to crown a conference champion:

Option 1: Four-Team playoff for the conference crown
 Winners of each of the 4 pods/divisions would be matched up for a four-team playoff for the conference title where overall conference record first determined which teams will represent which pods.  Semifinal could be done on campus sites, with the team with the higher record hosting, and final hosted at a neutral site.

Option 2: Each paired pod of 8 (two pairs of 8) are de-facto divisions
Teams with the best conference record from each pod-pairing each represent one half of the conference, match them up in the title game.  Title game hosted at a neutral site.

Of course, tiebreakers will be put into place to determine which of the two (or 4) teams will play for the conference championship.

I think Stanford is more than a decent team......

With all the expansion to superconferences are conference championships going to be relevant?  More teams means the conference will be less connected and schedule imbalance may become a major driver behind who plays in the championship game. 

I also worry about adding conference games which reduce the number of non-conference contests which further obscures the relative strength of the conferences.  In the extreme superconferences may "work" because you have enough teams you realize selecting a unanimous champion is nearly impossible so you may begin to care less about a rigorous selection process.  This could reduce the number of conference games allowing teams to build a schedule that helps them build a good resume.

trying to create equitable divisions that preserve rivalries and geographic proximity is like pounding  a square peg into a round hole.