Not Dantonio's Fault

The general point is not that "it's Dantonio's fault." The general point is, "by the standards set for Rich Rodriguez, it's Dantonio's fault and more."

for what happened, any more than RR or Beilein or Red is personally responsible for what kids do away from supervision. However, you can also make the argument that MD sent a clear message to the team by letting Winston back on that he was going to go soft on thuggery. Dantonio should not be the only one on the hot seat; Rosenberg's recent excuse-making on behalf of MD now looks pretty ridiculous to most people outside the incestuous media circle-jerk he participates in. However, we know full well how "journalists" cover for their own, regardless of the circumstance, and so Rosenberg won't feel any heat in all likelihood. He'll continue to be the smug, preening, self-important, Edward R. Murrow-in-his-own-mind.

and other factors to blame in addition to Dantonio, but he certainly has some fault in the matter. These are Dantonio recruits. They came to the campus in large part based upon his actions. Thus far there has been a hockey player put in the hospital with a skull injury and now a masked attack by several members of the football team. Is it OK that the MSU campus live in fear of their football team? The president bares some responsibility for the cabinet he appoints. The owner of a company bares some responsibility for the work atmosphere he creates through his hires. To say that it is not Dantonio's fault, period, is not a reasonable analysis of the situation.

Like it or not, a coach is responsible for their team. We are talking about a bunch of 18-22 year old kids, and therefore it is the coaches responsibility to ensure that he leads them in the right direction. I'm not saying that dantonio himself is a bad person who supports beating people up. But by setting a precedent with Winston and the incident at the end of last season he was part of the reason this latest event occurred. The thing about dantonio that bothers me is that he acts like this tough drill sergeant that doesn't out up with any bull. Well if that were true than every single one of these kids would be gone permanently. And I'm guessing that will not be the case.

1) Player puts man in hospital with sucker punch. 2) Player is jailed for 6 months 3) Played is released from jail, is not disciplined by team 4) Player commits a second assault What part of that is related to Winston not learning from the previous incident by not being disciplined? We may never know, but to say it wasn't a factor at all is extremely narrow-minded.

First of all, it is Dantonio's fault that Winston was allowed back on the team. If he loses his scholarship, he's off campus. Why he was even back on campus is beyond me, but Dantonio took on some responsibility by giving Winston the second chance. Does the second incident still happen without Winston? Maybe. Secondly, and more importantly, this recent incident is eerily similar to the first. Did Dantonio not make it perfectly clear to every member of the team that there would be severe consequences if any of them did anything even remotely similar? How can 10 players disregard that warning? Why were they not afraid of the consequences?

The double-standard of the Freep, though, as outlined by Brian, is worth looking at.

These are the things that *could* be considered Dantonio's fault: 1) Reinstating Winston so quickly. I think Winston should have been reinstated, but forced to serve some suspension from football activities rather than literally going right from jail to practice. 2) Recruiting kids who could do this thing. Most of the attackers were Dantonio recruits. Of course, every coach recruits bad apples -- and sometimes, like with Feagin, the apples don't appear to be bad at first. And we still don't know what was all involved -- was everyone throwing fists or wearing a mask, or just one or two with others there as support, were they as surprised things got out of hand or did they make things get out of hand, etc. 3) Creating a culture where this kind of thing is not shot down immediately. Again, if it was just Winston messing up again, that looks bad for Dantonio but it's not terrible. The most damaging/puzzling/concerning aspect of this whole affair is that apparently a large GROUP of players all thought it was a good idea to get together and roust a fraternity party. NO ONE seemed to say "Hey, this is probably a bad idea". Maybe someone did; we'll find out. And maybe some players got sucked into something bigger than they expected. It's this last thing that troubles me more. Yes, if Dantonio had known about it he would have put the kibosh on it. It's not like he said "Yeah, ski masks, great!". I'm sure he's heartsick. But if it's "just kids", why doesn't this happen all the time? What made these players think it was a good idea and not think about the repurcussions for them, for their team, and their school? Here I think Dantonio *HAS* to take some of the blame. Every coach uses some kind of 'us against them' mentality to motivate his players. But did Dantonio go too far, and indirectly encourage his players to take that attitude in other affairs? I'M JUST SAYIN'

There’s a big difference between this and the persecution of Rich Rodriguez. The first time a group of his guys posse’d up and set out to knock some heads (off the field), Dantonio was not really accountable. The second time a group of his guys posse’d up, probably the exact same group, sorry Dantonio takes heat for that. There’s a direct line from his mishandling of the Glenn Winston incident to this latest incident. This is not one guy with anger issues, or bad decision making, being a disgrace. This is a group of guys, leaders of the team on and off the field, being a disgrace; after a previous and identical situation. Sparty-Nation and a very belligerent faction of the in state MSM tracks a list of people who have been “Rodriguezed” and criticizes him for changing the culture of Michigan football, allegedly for the worse. Meanwhile Dantonio wins a couple of games against Michigan and goes to a couple of bowl games and it’s just boy’s being boy’s when his players disgrace the University and Alumni of the University. Unfortunately for MSU, Dantonio either lacks the ability or desire to any “Dantonioing”. Or maybe this is what Dantonioing is?

These are young men who made really bad decisions and should be held responsible for their own actions.

"Really bad decisions" is putting it lightly. It is Coach D-Bag's fault and it isn't. What separates this from, say, the St. Patrick's Day Massacre, is that Dantonio had a very good reason to kick Winston off the team before this happened and he didn't. While I doubt that Dantonio has as little control over his players as past MSU coaches, I can't think of an incident that appeared more coordinated and involved more players than this one, unless you go back to maybe SMU in the 80s. And Winston played a role in this assault, possibly a pivotal one. Any coach is accountable for such a thing to some degree (especially this type of thing!), but this is pretty big. I doubt D-Bag teaches his players to do these things, it's not the first fighting incident but it's a big one that he might have been able to stop. The thing that irks us the most is that people, Michigan fans included, have this idea that RR is a "win at all costs" coach who carelessly recruits shady players like Feagin to UM just as he did at WVU with Pacman Jones, Chris Henry, and Pat Lazear. RR recruits Feagin, embarrasses UM and the Big 10, and should have known better, while Dantonio gets a pass.

I'm fine with your overall point - that we shouldn't rush to judgment.... but this? This? "I would also venture to guess, what these young men did; they did not learn from Dantonio." I'm not biting. I would venture to guess that no multi-cell organism thinks that either.

Mark Dantonio is responsible for the conduct of his players. From their performance on the field to their performance in the classroom, their conduct in the University community and adherence to the law. All football coaches have those responsibilities. The question is whether the University will hold the coach accountable. Many schools do not. Florida State, for one, is an example that comes to mind. There are many others. Of course, the level of enforcement of said accountability is often inversely related to victories. BUT, for a University to look the other way, or go lightly on matters directly related to the safety of its students, is unconscionable. To say nothing of leaving the school open to massive litigation. Whether publicly or behind the scenes, how do Luanna Simon and the Board of Trustees not enforce a very hard line? Under similar circumstances, I would expect, no insist, that Mary Sue Coleman and the U-M board do the same thing.

when you have a FBS Div 1 football program. Whether we as Michigan fans are "above" ridiculing Dantonio and his program, to each his own. Ridiculing someone or a group for something they have no control over is one thing, but when they are over 18 and they represent a university and football program and make conscious choices that just happen to be STUPID they deserve the ridicule. On top of that, it was Dantonio that "warned" Michigan of the 'Pride comes before the fall' comment. So, yeah, ridicule away.

"take a step back from ridiculing them" = #9 hamburger Giving MSU back what they have been giving us = 24 oz. T-bone.

Why don't you tell that to the Freep, except change it "Leave RichRod the f*** alone."

MSU fans are still referring to the Ed Martin scandal, more than ten years after it was over. They hammered RR for attrition, leaving WVU, Justin Feagin, a "he said, she said" alleged sexual misconduct that I am guessing might not be prosecuted due to a lack of credible evidence, and accuse him of "covering up NCAA violations" for allegedly practicing almost as long as it was documented that they do at MSU. They deserve everything they get back for allowing Winston to go from jail to the practice field, playing a season, and not only becoming a repeat offender, but somehow dragging 10-20 of his teammates down with him by creating an environment of thuggery and intimidation among his teammates. MSU fans are just getting back what they have coming to them. MSU fans are now going to know the true meaning of two old, somewhat tired but still relevant cliches: "what goes around comes around" and "live by the sword, die by the sword." The only thing better would be if a couple of the attackers turned out to be from their "holier than thou" basketball team. Maybe they should ban that 300 Spartans movie from campus. The attacks make it look like the football team is confusing fiction with reality. Sorta like they do when they brag about "dominating the state of Michigan."

practiced a little more, these players would not have had time to go all Higher Learning. A different way to see the idiocy as to the Freep initial "investigation" into Michigan.

While I agree that Dantonio can't be held accountable for every little thing any individual players does, this incident is entirely different. A group of players got together and in a pre-meditated fashion attacked a group students. This was not some spur of the moment of emotion getting the better of a person's reason. The fact these players planned this and thought they could get away with this without serious consequence is a serious indictment of discipline within the MSU football program and how much control Dantonio has over it. MSU apologists trying to dismiss this by equating it to Feagin or unnamed U of M player accused of sexual assault are missing the point and burying their heads in the sand.

of the dog is disturbing. I choose to stray away from this thread due to said picture.

Dan Antonio (and ALL head coaches, for that matter) sets the tone "in the football building". He wasn't responsible for the attack but it's his responsibility to create an environment of zero tolerance for all things criminal. He failed to set that tone when he allowed a convicted felon, fresh out of the pokie, back on the team.

But the number of players involved indicates that there is a sizable portion of his team that seeks to perpetuate a culture of violence and intimidation on the MSU campus. I mean, this crime was just totally ridiculous. It wasn't done (as far as we have been told) in retaliation for anything. There was not even any monetary gain involved (i.e. it was not a robbery). It was just violence for violence sake. Clockwork Orange shit. This story is really unbelievable. Pure sociopathology.

Are these a couple of black marks on a coaches career,or is this a pattern of a type of behavior with teams(defenses)that this guy coaches? Have any players under his command been accused of thugish acts in the past? just wondering...

a coach when this happens?