The myth that "the cupboard was bare"

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February 10th, 2011 at 3:34 PM
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UMxWolverines
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The myth that "the cupboard was bare"

I couldn't remember most of the guys we had on defense in 2008, so I went and looked them up and what they were rated when they were being recruited. I just went along with the people that said things like "there wasn't much talent" and things like that. But I went and looked up the starters in 2008, and here they are:

Morgan Trent Senior - 4 stars

John Thompson Senior - 3 stars

Terrance Taylor Senior- 4 stars

Will Johnson Senior - 4 stars

Charles Stewart Senior - 3 stars

Donnavon Warren Sophomore - 5 stars

Tim Jamison Senior - 4 stars

Stevie Brown Junior - 4 stars

Troy Woolfolk Sophomore - 3 stars

Obi Ezeh Sophomore - 3 stars (although he was a running back in hs)

Jonas Mouton Sophomore - 4 stars

Brandon Graham Sophomore - 5 stars

I realize most of these guys didn't play in these last two years, but in 2008 the defense was still bad and there's no way it should have been that bad. It was defninitely piss poor coaching. I'd kill for that defense now!  Can't wait for Hoke to restore order.

 

"Ohio is like a giant turd that Michigan just can't pinch off"

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February 10th, 2011 at 3:37 PM | For fucks sake. (Score:1)
OMG Shirtless
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I put up a tough front, but deep down I just want to be held.

February 10th, 2011 at 3:50 PM | Guide for Posting on MGoBoard (Score:1)
profitgoblue
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 19415

People like the OP that insist on engaging in Rodriguez post mortum discussions need to revisit octal9's outstanding post on creating new threads: http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/creating-new-thread-heres-handy-flowchart

Read it, study it, learn it.

Disgruntled former moderator.  I got a lot of problems with you people!

February 10th, 2011 at 3:57 PM | What's your policy for (Score:1)
justingoblue
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Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 10859

What's your policy for accepting Bolivian clients?

If points were on line, would you take the OP or no?

Go Blue!

February 10th, 2011 at 4:03 PM | Board-Appointed (Score:1)
profitgoblue
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 19415

I'm essentially a Board-Appointed advocate.  I only take a case when there is overwhelming public sentiment in favor of a second-chance.  I do not undertake the representation without being fairly certain in the outcome.  FuManBlue was my first client and it was so successful that I have the ability to be more discerning than your everyday public defender.  In other words, the OP is SOL.

Disgruntled former moderator.  I got a lot of problems with you people!

February 10th, 2011 at 4:08 PM | No clients since? That is (Score:1)
justingoblue
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MGoPoints: 10859

No clients since? That is really discerning. 

I'll give the OP some help though:

http://www.yellowpages.bo/?cx=partner-pub-2744582904338930:dm4amh-r0ic&cof=FORID:10&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=abogado&sa=Yellow+Bolivia+Search&siteurl=www.yellowpages.bo/

Go Blue!

February 10th, 2011 at 4:19 PM | DONT SCROLL DOWN!!! (Score:1)
steviebrownforh...
Joined: 02/01/2009
MGoPoints: 2548

Just trying to save your "valuable" time.

February 10th, 2011 at 4:33 PM | also, you must be the ONLY person on the blog (Score:1)
steviebrownforh...
Joined: 02/01/2009
MGoPoints: 2548

that has never read "the Decimated Defense".

 

February 11th, 2011 at 6:26 AM | negged (Score:1)
kevin holt
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MGoPoints: 2807

for coming in way late (thread has been on repeat, dude) and replying to a post near the top just to be seen. In fact, you were replying to a post that did the exact same thing, so negging him as well.

Regardless of OP's post, I always neg for this type of reply-jacking

Mike Martin told me he loves me. My life is quite possibly complete.

Join the bone marrow donor registry today: www.dkmsamericas.org (do it.)

February 10th, 2011 at 4:16 PM | Oh man... (Score:1)
kevin holt
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MGoPoints: 2807

That really sucks, counselor. Since negs aren't really worth anything (or they are sometimes? I have no idea), seems like your caseload suddenly lightens considerably. Like being a defense attorney and suddenly jail isn't a thing anymore.

However, if negs and Bolivian are a possibility here, I'll take the OP as my client. He has had several quality posts in the past, and I think this one was more lighthearted than it seems. I've always seen him as a great fan and poster in the past. It's just one slip-up.

Also, as I recall, he's still a high-schooler, so he has more to learn. Not like the occasional blue hair that comes on here to blast the coaching and say they're withholding donations until a change is made, UNACCEPTABLE, etc.

Tl;dr: OBJECTION!

Mike Martin told me he loves me. My life is quite possibly complete.

Join the bone marrow donor registry today: www.dkmsamericas.org (do it.)

February 10th, 2011 at 4:28 PM | He's all yours (Score:1)
profitgoblue
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 19415

You'll have an easy time with this case, him being a legal minor and all.  Could be a good first case for you.  Although, he clearly put a lot of thought into his post and, as such, will have a much harder time winning over the masses as FuManBlue did . . .

Disgruntled former moderator.  I got a lot of problems with you people!

February 10th, 2011 at 4:34 PM | Yeah, but someone needs to be (Score:1)
Tauro
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Yeah, but someone needs to be appointed his Legal Guardian before you can proceed.

February 10th, 2011 at 4:38 PM | Awesome (Score:1)
kevin holt
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MGoPoints: 2807

While you're an advocate in cases that you feel you will win, I think I'm more of the court-appointee who has to take any case, no matter how hopeless. I might be able to work my way up to the right to choose clients, but my cupboard is bare (oh god, that's my own client, I think it's always too soon for that... welp, rookie mistake)

I'll defend OP with the best of my ability, but we might need to just take a plea bargain on this one. I advise my client to make a great big EDIT at the top, adding in a disclaimer.

Good, merciful people of this great Blognation of ours, the Go Blog of M, please take pity on this poor fan who only meant well. He will learn in time, but sending him to Bolivian will just make him a hardened, silent cynic like we have seen time and time again. I just need your consideration, ladies and gentlemen of the MGoJury.

edit: on second thought, we might be able to plea for insanity. It's come to my attention that the OP has a rare but increasingly prominent condition known as Hokeamania (see signature). I'm consulting with Psychiatrists on the matter and will discuss the matter as information comes through.

Mike Martin told me he loves me. My life is quite possibly complete.

Join the bone marrow donor registry today: www.dkmsamericas.org (do it.)

February 10th, 2011 at 7:47 PM | Sorry to be the one to have (Score:1)
Skunkeye
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Sorry to be the one to have to tell you but your client is GUILTY.  Just be glad that the bus to Bolivia is broken.

February 10th, 2011 at 11:12 PM | Business is Slow (Score:1)
Steve in PA
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I think your business is slow because the negs don't count anymore.  I'm fairly certain if they did Bolivia's population would have grown quite a bit since the board crashed.

 

 

February 10th, 2011 at 4:41 PM | The OP is not worthy to go to (Score:1)
ken725
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MGoPoints: 4540

The OP is not worthy to go to Bolivia. 

The only people that were truly sent to Bolivia are OMGShirtless, FuMan and I.  As far as I know Brian is the only one who can pwn us and send us to Bolivia.

My best advice for the OP:

Don’t be an idiot.  I think to myself, would an idiot post this?  If the answer is yes then I do not do that thing.

Greetings from Bolivia.

"It's special how the real true people hang together. And if you don't support the program you're not a true Michigan guy. It's that simple."  - Gary Moeller

February 10th, 2011 at 4:43 PM | Hey buddy (Score:1)
kevin holt
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MGoPoints: 2807

I don't need no Tommy Jefferson comin' in here and messing with my clients.

If you catch the reference, 10 points for Gryffindor. If not, google and get on that show's bandwagon asap plox

Mike Martin told me he loves me. My life is quite possibly complete.

Join the bone marrow donor registry today: www.dkmsamericas.org (do it.)

February 10th, 2011 at 4:58 PM | Just to make this thread (Score:1)
ken725
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Just to make this thread better.

http://www.heahea.org/thumb/1446-Ten_points_to_gryffindor.jpg

Greetings from Bolivia.

"It's special how the real true people hang together. And if you don't support the program you're not a true Michigan guy. It's that simple."  - Gary Moeller

February 10th, 2011 at 7:00 PM | I'll allow it. (Score:1)
kevin holt
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The Gryffindor joke makes this on topic. Also, the picture makes it on topic because obviously

Mike Martin told me he loves me. My life is quite possibly complete.

Join the bone marrow donor registry today: www.dkmsamericas.org (do it.)

February 10th, 2011 at 8:21 PM | Bolivian Brothers! (Score:1)
OMG Shirtless
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We're all out of Bolivia!

I put up a tough front, but deep down I just want to be held.

February 11th, 2011 at 9:17 AM | Dear OP, (Score:1)
lbpeley
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Joined: 01/29/2009
MGoPoints: 1585

you are a fucking idiot.

Brian, please bring the points system back in line soon.

Thanks.

February 11th, 2011 at 12:15 PM | The truth lies in between (Score:1)
caup
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 1915

We know that RR laid the blame squarely on the players. "Even Vince Lombardi couldn't do much with what we've got..."

If that's not putting 100% of the blame on the kids and absolving the coaches then I don't know what is.

So okay. Ask yourself this.  If Gary Patterson and his staff or Greg Mattison and his staff had these EXACT same kids for the last 3 years, would the defensive performance have been EXACTLY the same?

I think everyone except the most ardent RR apologist would say no.

So, it WAS a coaching problem, at least to some extent.  And yet we have never heard RR utter even the SLIGHTEST implication that maybe, just maybe, some of the blame rested on his shitty defensive staffing decisions.

The defense would have again been terrible in 2011 with RR's staff.  This is why he was fired.

If the 2011 defense is terrible under the new staff THEN maybe RR will be proven correct and absolved.

Go Blue

February 10th, 2011 at 3:38 PM | novel post (Score:1)
TheHoke.TheHoke...
Joined: 01/15/2011
MGoPoints: 108

novel post

February 10th, 2011 at 3:38 PM | Seriously. Stop. (Score:1)
JeepinBen
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MGoPoints: 9529

Just Stop. 

The "bare cupboard" typically refers to the offensive talent anyway

"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"

February 11th, 2011 at 9:04 AM | And (Score:1)
Frank Drebin
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MGoPoints: 1352

And it also refers to any depth. Sure, those defensive players look good, but there was nobody behind them, especially in the secondary as we saw the past 2 years.

 

Like a blind man at an orgy, I was going to have to feel my way through

February 10th, 2011 at 3:38 PM | What about me? (Score:1)
LarryHarrison
Joined: 12/04/2010
MGoPoints: 227

What about me?

February 10th, 2011 at 3:39 PM | I thought BG started in 2008. (Score:1)
TG7782
Joined: 11/12/2009
MGoPoints: 834

I thought BG started in 2008.

February 10th, 2011 at 3:39 PM | Your logic is flawless (Score:1)
KinesiologyNerd
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MGoPoints: 5974

Your logic is flawless because everyone knows that every highly rated recruit pans out. Bravo to you sir.

I know from experience dude. If you know what I mean.

February 10th, 2011 at 6:50 PM | wrong (Score:1)
ngroves
Joined: 01/12/2009
MGoPoints: 33

Actually, a few of those guys are in the NFL now and doing well.

February 11th, 2011 at 1:23 AM | In a backhanded way you just (Score:1)
KinesiologyNerd
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MGoPoints: 5974

In a backhanded way you just proved my point. Thanks!

I know from experience dude. If you know what I mean.

February 10th, 2011 at 3:39 PM | Excuse me while I choke on (Score:1)
BlockM
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Excuse me while I choke on this glock.

@pnbloem | Ultra-MGoBoard

February 10th, 2011 at 3:39 PM | That was sort of why Scott Schafer was fired, wasn't it? (Score:1)
Section 1
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Yes, hiring Greg Robinson was a mistake.  A bad mistake.  It was a mistake made after Michigan, for reasons that have not yet become clear, failed to bring in Rich Rodriguez's first choice, Jeff Casteel.

 

 

February 10th, 2011 at 3:49 PM | As far as I can tell (Score:1)
MichFan1997
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Michigan wasn't willing to pay Casteel the money he made at WVU so...reasons unclear is clear for you.

Follow me on Twitter @gfraley05

February 10th, 2011 at 4:19 PM | I seem to recall (Score:1)
ChalmersE
Joined: 11/19/2008
MGoPoints: 1068

that one of the reasons RR allegedly wanted out of WVa is that he couldn't pay the assistants what he wanted.  Now, maybe it's just me, but if I have a problem in an existing job before I take a new job, I want to make sure the existing problem won't be an issue in the new job.  If assistant's salaries were a major issue, then they should have been addressed in the initial negotiations.  If Casteel was that important, Rodriguez should have been negotiating what he would pay Casteel in order to make him an offer he couldn't refuse.

February 10th, 2011 at 4:38 PM | You've got a good name. (Score:1)
Section 1
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The fact of the matter is that Jeff Casteel said yes to Rich Rodriguez and was preparing to move to Ann Arbor, in late 2007.

Then, Bill Stewart was named HC, and Casteel changed his mind.  At that point, and then again at the close of the 2008 season, (and I say this with perfect 20-20 hindsight), a Michigan check for high six figures should have been written, with Jeff Casteel's name on it.  He was making about 375k at WVU. 

What we don't know -- at least what I don't know -- is what Bill Martin said and did at that time.  What was said by Rodriguez, Casteel and Martin, and how much money was offered, I don't know, and I wish that I did.  There is no doubt in my mind that Jeff Casteel was formally offered the Michigan job on three or more occasions.  At the end of 2007, in early 2009, and again, in some form or fashion, in late 2010. 

 

 

February 10th, 2011 at 3:50 PM | An interesting spin: (Score:1)
STW P. Brabbs
Joined: 08/27/2008
MGoPoints: 2409

Ah, Michigan failed to bring in Casteel.  So then did Michigan go and hire GERG?

How the fuck was Rodriguez going to show the world his Special Purpose when Michigan kept fucking with him like that?

February 10th, 2011 at 4:03 PM | You. Fucking. Jackass. (Score:1)
Section 1
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MGoPoints: 14296

Rich Rodriguez doesn't write checks for the Assistants on the coaching staff.  The Michigan Athletic Department does. 

And yes, if you are going to try to extract an extremely high-quality job applicant from a job where he is happy and secure with his family, you have to offer him a shitload of money.  David Brandon recently acknowldeged that Michigan had done badly in that department in the past, and needed to change.

And no, none of the worthies whom I knew, who were ardent supporters of Rich Rodriguez were ever much in the mood to give Greg Robinson their unqualified support.  Brian Cook questioned the GERG hiring from Day One.  Nobody expected Robinson to be retained for 2011.  I frankly didn't expect Robinson to be retained for 2010.

The good thing in all of this is that you've shown us your Special Purpose.  As an ignorant prick.

 

 

February 10th, 2011 at 4:06 PM | I just want to lock in your (Score:1)
OMG Shirtless
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I just want to lock in your ad hom attacks for posterity.

I put up a tough front, but deep down I just want to be held.

February 10th, 2011 at 4:41 PM | Section 1...ANGRY! (Score:1)
BlueVoix
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Section 1...ANGRY!

February 10th, 2011 at 7:28 PM | Man, this reaction is better (Score:1)
STW P. Brabbs
Joined: 08/27/2008
MGoPoints: 2409

Man, this reaction is better than I could have dreamed it would be.   I'll bite.  Sure, maybe the athletic department didn't commit enough money to get Casteel - but how, exactly, do you know that this is what went down?  Put another way, what would have been 'enough'?  Are we sure that Casteel had a price that was within reason?  Are we certain that Rich couldn't have done a better job getting Casteel to come work with him?  Do we know exactly how Casteel felt about working with Rich? 

Dismissing the (reasonable?) possibility that you are a close friend or confidant of Mr. Rodriguez, I'm guessing you don't really know the answer to these questions.  Thus, it's a ridiculous little piece of massaging the truth to say that Michigan didn't bring Casteel in. 

As for GERG, I'm not at all sure how the fact that you and Brian expressed misgivings about the hiring has fuck all to do with Rodriguez actually, uh, deciding to hire the man.  I'd give you all the MGoShrutebucks in the world for being so prescient if I could, but I'm still  not sure it would absolve Rich of responsibility for his disastrous staffing decision. 

Finally, it would have been funnier to insult me with Special Purpose in a manner that actually reflected the usage of the phrase in The Jerk.  I'll admit that I didn't do a great job of this either, but I thought that the vague image of penny-pinching, blue-haired  adminstrator restraining Rodriguez from showing the world his dong was kinda funny.  YMMV.

 

February 10th, 2011 at 8:14 PM | You got questions. (Score:1)
Section 1
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We got answers.

1.  The overtures to Casteel in late '07 and early '09 are a matter of public record.  As was Casteel's initial agreement to come to Ann Arbor.  (When the shell-shocked Mountaineers thought that a whole new regime would replace the just-departed Rich Rodriguez & co.)  Followed by Casteel's (perfectly reasonable) demurrer, saying essentially that if in fact he had the chance to stay in Morgantown and keep his daughters in school and keep his same job with even more autonomy under Stewart, he would do that and just stay in Morgantown.

2.  I don't know what specific amounts Casteel might have been offered at any step of the way.  Let's just agree that it "wasn't enough."  I'm not the first to discuss this.  Brian Cook was way ahead of me; noting that while Casteel's initial backing out in '07 might have been understandable, it was less understandable when in 2009, in the wake of Scott Schafer, we couldn't get Casteel with a new, determined, and very large offer.  But I suspect (I never claimed to know) that we will someday find out that Bill Martin was only willing to pay Casteel on a traditional Michigan/Big Ten/Big East pay scale.  David Brandon now knows -- he has said so -- that Michigan had made errors in that area.  Anyway, the point that Brian Cook has already alluded to was; Yeah, we know Casteel turned us down once, then twice... what was he turning down?  If he was making 375k at WVU, was Michigan offering 400k?  Or was Michigan offering 800k?

3.  Someday soon, somebody is going to be able to draw up a very simple, very interesting chart.  Consisting of the contract-package numbers for each of Jeff Casteel, Scott Schafer, Greg Robinson and Greg Mattison, for the years 2006-2011.  What I expect it to show, is that Michigan was essentially "cheap" until it had to pay for Greg Mattison.  And that you get what you pay for.

4.  You are wrong when you suggest: "Thus, it's a ridiculous little piece of massaging the truth to say that Michigan didn't bring Casteel in."  No, that is a fact.  Michigan didn't bring Jeff Casteel in.  For whatever reason.  I explicitly said that I didn't know all of the details, and that I'd like to get more information.

5.  Greg Robinson.  Nobody knew in early 2009 how bad things would be on defense under Greg Robinson.  But then, I don't remember anybody, other than disgruntled Syracuse Orangemen, and Brian Cook, saying wtf?  Rodriguez got him, I suspect, because he felt he just had to make a change from what is portrayed in the video that leads off this thread.  I think I'd feel the need to make a change, based on that kind of sideline clusterfuck, too.  Robinson had a pretty good-looking resume back then; where you and I appear to differ is that I think that Robinson turned from what seemed on paper to be a semi-reasonable selection, into a disaster.  If Greg Robinson had been Rich Rodriguez's first choice, and a guy that he had demanded, and had asked Bill Martin to do anything in the whole wide world to get to come to Ann Arbor, I'd blame Rodriguez much more harshly.  But Robinson was the third or fourth choice.  And he now appears to have been a bargain-basement choice.

 

 

 

February 10th, 2011 at 9:32 PM | I've read this, and you still (Score:1)
STW P. Brabbs
Joined: 08/27/2008
MGoPoints: 2409

I've read this, and you still don't have anything but conjecture about why Casteel did not join the staff.  Therefore, you're still applying your own best guess.  But I'll play along: it may well have been that Michigan had to pay Casteel $800k to come here.  To be honest, I'm not really sure he's worth that, but ok.

Still, ultimately, it's Rodriguez's job to hire a good staff.  You want to let him off the hook because hey, a bunch of internet jagoffs powered by Google thought Robinson might be an okay hire too?  Rodriguez was paid millions of dollars to know how the fuck to differentiate between a a guy who treads water with pro-level talent at Texas (albeit with beautiful hair) and a guy who really thought Ezeh was just about to turn it around midway through his fifth year.  Furthermore, by all accounts the GERG hire was turned from bad to cataclysmic because Rodriguez (or Gibson, by proxy) decided to force the 3-3-5 down the old fella's throat.  That's Rodriguez's responsibility.  That ain't on Martin.  Anyway, Jeff Casteel isn't the only fucking guy in CFB who can coordinate a defense.  (Indeed, Mr. Scott Shafer seems to know a thing or two about defense, but he had to drag around the dead weight of Jay Hopson and Tony 3-3-5.)   Hell, if Rodriguez loved the 3-3-5 so dearly, he could have hired Rocky Long, who was looking for  work in 2009.  Instead, Long was hired at SDSU, for what I'm guessing was a hell of a lot less than $400k. 

Finally, what's lost in all of this is that it wasn't just Michigan who had to hire Mattison, though the numbers will come out on how much he's being paid.  Dude was crystal clear that his enormous man crush on Hoke was a big part of the reason he came.  I don't know whether he and Brady just love drinkin' beer and eating homemade pizza together or whether Brady's got incriminating photographs, but that doesn't really matter.  Hoke closed the deal with what appears to be a great hire, bottom line.  And if Mattison doesn't do a good job, that will be on Hoke too, and I'll be among the first to say that it turned out to be a bad move on Hoke's part.

Head Coach: responsible for coaching staff. 

February 10th, 2011 at 11:01 PM | I like your style Brabbs. (Score:1)
MGoVillain
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I like your style Brabbs.  I'm giving you my MGoVillain endorsement and I'd like to donate to your campaign.  

 

MUAHAHAHAHA!  MUAHAHAHA!

February 10th, 2011 at 11:20 PM | I wasn't suggesting that Michigan should have hired Mattison. (Score:1)
Section 1
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MGoPoints: 14296

Not at all.  I am suggesting that if Michigan made a cheap offer to Jeff Casteel, and thereby failed to get him, then that is a mistake.  I assume that I am onto something in that regard, because David Brandon has very nearly said as much.  Saying that Michigan's coaching salaries, particularly assistant coaching salaries, have been in the middle of the pack.  And that would have to change.  And true to his word, Brandon paid what it took to get an NFL Defensive Coordinator to make the lateral move to Ann Arbor.  I presume that the number is very close to, or perhaps north of, a million dollars.

Indeed, the rumor that I very much like (and I shall patiently wait for proof) is the one wherein Brandon, in the late stages of the Rodriguez Administration, tried to respond to the Coach's plea that they make his guy Casteel the kind of offer that would move him to Ann Arbor, and that Brandon had funding up to $1m to offer Casteel.  But that Casteel also wanted assurances that he'd last more than a year with Rodriguez at Michigan.  It essentially forced Brandon to either 'double down' on Rodriguez, or to go in an all-new direction.

I think the hard, gutsy, rusky, smart move would have been to go with a continued Rodriguez offense and a Jeff Casteel defense in 2011.  Brandon would have had to stand up to the media, the former M Letterwhiners, et cetera.  I think it would have been fantastic; historic.  Instead, Brandon went the safe, happy, low-risk, low-imagination route.

 

 

February 10th, 2011 at 11:28 PM | Letterwhiners?     They (Score:1)
MGoVillain
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Letterwhiners?  

 

They earned their opinion.   

MUAHAHAHAHA!  MUAHAHAHA!

February 10th, 2011 at 11:32 PM | The M Letterwhiners went to (Score:1)
Section 1
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MGoPoints: 14296

"Lloyd Carr's University of Michigan."

 

 

February 11th, 2011 at 12:21 AM | Weak.   (Score:1)
MGoVillain
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Weak.  

MUAHAHAHAHA!  MUAHAHAHA!

February 11th, 2011 at 12:23 AM | What University of Michigan did you go to? (Score:1)
Cope
Joined: 10/07/2010
MGoPoints: 1059

Excuse me, but I'm extremely proud of that University of Michigan.

A Journey of Father and Son
http://mysonsfirstbible.blogspot.com/2013/05/15-things-you-may-have-miss...

February 11th, 2011 at 12:43 AM | what the fuck are you talking (Score:1)
white_pony_rocks
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what the fuck are you talking about?  did you play on the football team?  if not then you did not go to lloyd carr's university of michigan

Soon to be the #1 fitness and training center in AA

http://www.annarbortrainer.com

February 11th, 2011 at 2:17 AM | From where I'm standing (Score:1)
Cope
Joined: 10/07/2010
MGoPoints: 1059

In debating whether to even justify this with an answer...it's a screwy enough thread already- why not. 

Perhaps I have my head too full of tradition, honor, and loyalty to my school. But when I see "Lloyd Carr's University of Michigan," or comments like "Bo is dead," which have appeared frequently on this site, I find them offensive. I won't throw my university, my coaches, or my honor underneath a bus, dirty cleat, or the brown leather shoes I stood in as a student while singing the Victors. For any reason. And I certainly wouldn't do it to prove a point.

You stomp on Lloyd Carr, no matter what you're standing in, you stomp on the university. Period.  

I'm not a fanatic, but I'm also not a casual fan. I have pride in my university. And Lloyd was my coach all five years I attended the University of Michigan.  He's part of the institution, as I now am. And no, I never wore a cleat. Just old worn leather shoes. But it's my university, just as it is his, as it was Bo's and now is the next man's. And though Lloyd's shoes stood on grass and mine on concrete, make no mistake, we stood together. And I'm proud of that. 

That's what I meant. 

A Journey of Father and Son
http://mysonsfirstbible.blogspot.com/2013/05/15-things-you-may-have-miss...

February 11th, 2011 at 12:26 AM | Section 1 (Score:1)
STW P. Brabbs
Joined: 08/27/2008
MGoPoints: 2409

I really, really feel like it might be best for you and for others if you went ahead and switched the ol' college football allegiance over to another team.  I'm sure Rodriguez will land on his feet in a year or two, so you might enjoy following his meteoric rise wherever that may be.  In the meantime, maybe Boise State's offense will fulfill your craving for Football Rebellion.

Just, you know, a suggestion.

One more thing: I don't personally put much weight into the idea of Lloyd's alleged 'faction,' and I sure as hell don't believe that it had fuck-all to do with Rodriguez's firing, but if you do - if you think there was a battle for the soul of Schembechler Hall between Lloyd and Rodriguez - there's only one conclusion to draw.

Lloyd won. 

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