Michigan-NW MBB postgame snowflake thread

Every starter is in the 120's - Brooks is 106.  

I'm not saying he's bad by any means. He fills his role on this Michigan team, but "one of the most valuable in the conference" is still a huge exaggeration imo for a guy coming into today who was a 40% overall and 32% from 3 shooter and decent defender

I'm not bashing the dude, he's a solid role player and allows us to have Chaundee on the bench. I just think he is what is at this point

No I think you are right in regards to the efficiency of that aspect of Livers' individual game thus far this season. I guess I am more so speaking to his ability from previous years to get to the rim, either in half court sets or in the transition game. Again, he does seem a step slower to me, but whether that's nagging injury or trying to let the game come to him, I don't know.

Also, there appear to be two to four players (Smith, Wagner, and then maybe Brooks and Brown) who are more efficient when driving the lane so far this season. Smith and Wagner certainly can get to the hoop and/or distribute from the lane. Brooks also seems to be able to navigate traffic or get past his faceup defender. Brown seems spotty in this aspect of the game, but he goes hard in paint when he does decide to drive. 

I appreciate your candor with this disagreement. I just hope Livers can keep improving and help the team continue to win.

"Coach Howard is much smarter than all of us combined and will certainly figure the situation out"

Amen to that! 

Basketball is a highly nuanced game...sometimes things are not as they appear to be. I believe you have good points regarding Livers however you are missing the preponderant point in this regard. Livers is the best long to mid-range shooter on this team-and every opponent clearly has a full understanding of this...he is being hugely game-planned for. Defenses immediately collapse on him when he puts the ball on the floor-because they believe it is safe to do so. Anyone else puts the ball on the floor-I guarantee you Liver's defender is not leaving him standing alone outside the arc. Here, surely, Livers would do well to understand that defenses are going to collapse on him...and that he needs to keep his head up and find his teammate(s) whose defender(s) is/are leaving open. You take Livers off the floor and those driving lanes for his teammates suddenly become very clogged. Furthermore, I believe Livers is being instructed to pose more of a threat off the dribble-now he simply needs to take advantage of the opportunities he creates by doing so.

Going forward, this scenario is going to become increasingly interesting. Brooks, Wagner, Brown and Smith are most likely going to increasingly make defenders reconsider the value of devoting so many resources to stymying Livers. Those four were 9 for 17 from deep this game-and they were all very good, virtually uncontested looks...and there is a reason for this being the case.

This is a dream combination of players to orchestrate...and Juwan and his staff are clearly up to the task. (And the bench players evidently understand that they, indeed, are a part of the larger success of this team.) The competition ahead is formidable and there will surely be times when they are bested-but I like Michigan's chances here. And I just as surely would not trade this year's team for last year's. Five guys who can light it up from three...all arrows are pointing up.

Agree, Livers needs to accept his role, which on this team is '3 and D.'  Would you rather see Livers drive the hoop, or Smith or Franz?  Livers drive the hoop, or a HD post-up?  I think the answer is obvious.  This is a very good team, but what will make it elite is if Livers accepts his role, stands outside the circle, waits for the ball to come inside out, and then actually, consistently, hits his open 3s.  Even though he is at 40% on the season from 3, he has not really done this.  He can do the other stuff late in the shot clock, which is a nice luxury to have.

Livers flat out kills offensive sets and ball movement more than any other player on the team. Our worst possessions are Livers iso situations.

I don't think this is right. Livers has an ORTG of ~125. That is generally regarded as being outstanding. I'm not disagreeing that so far this season Livers' iso-ball has been a problem on offense, resulting in a high amount of turnovers (he's averaging about 1.7/gm), but you could say the same of Brown and, prior to the past four games, Franz. 

I agree with njvictor that Livers likely knew the NBA wanted to see more playmaking ability with the ball in his hands. He has definitely been trying to drive the ball and score off iso without any action more than he ever has. And he isn't good at it.

I think his NBA draft stock is certainly in play when it comes to his play style on the offensive end. He very well may think that creating shots for himself via dribble-drive is going to get himself more buzz and intrigue from NBA teams. I certainly would like to see him develop that aspect of his game even more. 

However, there are two years' worth of film where he has shown a decent ability to take a man straight up off the dribble and get to the hoop, then either finish at the rim or find an open man. During the 2018-19 season was when he seemed to really be developing that part of his game. It was never the focal point of his game, but there was general utility and success with that aspect of his game. 

Again, I don't think that Livers has ever been a great dribble-drive player and I even said that part of his game was never a focal point of his on offense. But it seems like it used to have been a more reliable area he could go to that would force different looks. 

I don't really think he has lost a step or any quickness. I feel he is just operating out of the offense more than he ever was previously. His forays to the rim had generally been from attacking close outs, off of cuts, or coming through ball movement that gave him a step. Now he is just straight trying to take people off the bounce and he looks slower because that isn't his strength.

There's elements that I disagree and agree with here. 

First, I think you are right by stating that with Livers trying to play more iso-ball that this could reinforce a perception of slowness, but even in the past seasons' film, he did seem to have a bit more of a first step. I don't know if we can truly know the answer unless either of us went back thoroughly through the film. I can't recall, and don't want to do the research, but I am fairly certain that last season's leg injury was his first ever major injury (in college). 

Second, Livers has essentially vanished in the transition offense. This was definitely a huge part of his game from seasons past. Some of his best highlights are slams on great transition play. His top end speed is not anything to write home about, but those really long legs of his would help put distance between him and defenders to get to the rim. He also just seemed to have a nose for filling the right lane when moving down the court to create an open look.

Third, you are definitely right about Livers' using cuts or off-ball screens to flash into the paint and get to the rim. That also seemed to have been a greater share of his offensive identity in previous seasons. 

At the end of the day, whatever elements of his game are helping the team win will make me happy. I just hope we can see some more of his balanced offensive identity as opposed to him being a pure spot up shooter waiting for open looks at the perimeter. 

Offensively I think he just needs to let play come to him more. He needs to dribble drive less and move without the ball more.

I can certainly get behind this sentiment, but it applies for everyone on the team except Smith, Wagner, and maybe Brooks (when Smith is out). It could be a product of the sets we run, or the looks that we are trying to generate, but there does appear to be less off ball movement than in years past. Of course, we are only operating off of a single year's worth of tape from Coach Howard's approach and Coach Beilein used to worship off ball movement. 

At the end of the day, I think there is quite a bit of truth in what you say, and many of your points are well taken. And, like I said before, whatever the offensive identity of not just Livers, but everyone on this team, needs to be to help the team win... well then I'm all for that.