Latest ACC rumblings; ND involved
Also, an FSU insider (guy who owns Warchant) says that the SEC and FSU/Clems are in talks (to what extent, no one knows). Apparently he has a B10 source who says the B10 are working under the assumption that theose two schools are going to the SEC and thus the B10 is focusing on UNC/UVa.
I assume ND (do they really have a full vote?) wants to prevent Stanford from going to the B10 b/c that may put their USC or Stanford rivalry games in jeopardy. Team ACC expansion (ND and ???) are aiming for SMU as well, allegedly. It's been argued that there is safety in numbers: A conf with 17-18 that loses 3-4 programs is still a conference. Also, I've read that ESPN is brokering a deal for Syracuse, BC and Wake to take half shares, which will be passed to FSU, UNC, and Clemson. I'll be surprised if Syracuse agress, but IDK about the others. We live is strange times in the CFB universe.
Big Ten better strike a massive deal, add FSU, Clemson (fuck the SEC) Miami, Utah, Cincinnati (to fuck with OSU) UNC, ND.
what?
Utah is a tough one. They play great football but so does Boise state, Cincy, and Oklahoma St.
Boise state hasn’t been too hot lately
August 11th, 2023 at 1:20 PM ^
This is shaping up the way I always thought it would. Expect more expansion over the next 3 years. It's a matter of positioning oneself for the future. If you don't get the best brands or regions available your rival (SEC) might get them, their position becomes stronger or re-constituted (Big12). Why give your rival an opportunity to get stronger than you and for cheap.
Here's how I see it.
Brands Market
Stanford San Francisco/Oakland (Don't need Cal too if better options available)
Notre Dame Chicago/National
N. Carolina Carolina's (Basketball Powerhouse)
Duke Carolina's/National (Basketball Powerhouse)
Syracuse New York (Largest Market in U.S. and nobody's watching Rutgers)
BYU Utah (Adds a west coast school plus Mormon following)
Fl. State Entire State of Florida
Miami Southern Florida
Kansas KC Missouri/Kansas (Basketball Powerhouse)
Not a Brand but a good Market
Virginia DMV (Large enough to support 2 schools and military presence)
Baylor Dallas/ SW-Texas (Military plus needed presence in state)
Boston College Boston/New England (Too many eyes not to have a presence)
TCU Dallas/NW-Texas (Too many eyes not to have a presence in state)
Ga. Tech Atlanta (Too many eyes not to have a presence in state)
Ok. State OK. City (West Coast School)
San Diego State San Diego/Southern Cal (Too many eyes plus military presence)
If you have Stanford you don't need Cal to cover the market. Actually more potential eyes in SDSU. I like UNC G.T. Duke and Fl. State. If you have them, Clemson market is covered. I thought Utah already went to the Big12 ??????
Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, and nope.
Prefacing this comment with the following disclaimer: ... To Hell With Notre Dame.
I don't mind who else the Big Ten takes... it is not going to fundamentally shift things more dramatically than they already have been. Yet, FSU and Clemson seem a more natural fit in the SEC - so it wouldn't surprise me if that happens.
Besides... the ACC isn't ready for Stanford & Son.
How about we stick with the 18 (!) teams we have and not obsess over a school in Indiana that drew over 1 million fewer viewers per game than us last year?
August 9th, 2023 at 10:57 PM ^
^^^^ Best fucking answer of the day, maybe even the week ^^^^
August 10th, 2023 at 1:59 AM ^
That would have been 3rd highest in the conference and was 6th in the country.
The suits are not simply comparing options to UM/OSU...they would do the unthinkable to add ND.
August 10th, 2023 at 12:22 PM ^
We're already the richest conference in the country without those drama queens. Let them rot in the ACC, I don't give a shit.
August 10th, 2023 at 9:53 AM ^
I upvoted because I like the stat, but as others have pointed out, this would be to bring up viewers in comparison to Rutgers and Indiana and MSU. Plus, it'd put another game on the schedule that for Michigan that is one of the top viewed games of the year. Michigan had I think 3 top 10 viewed games last year. This would add another option to the list.
I honestly don't understand ND at all. with USC, Michigan, MSU all in the conference (along with Purdue) why are they trying to stick with the ACC that would struggle. Seems like BIG is the much higher profile conference. I guess it'd mean eating crow. But eating crow on a giant pile of money and viewers seems like a smarter thing to do.
August 10th, 2023 at 1:26 PM ^
I honestly don't understand ND at all. with USC, Michigan, MSU all in the conference (along with Purdue) why are they trying to stick with the ACC that would struggle.
Notre Dame has won 29 straight regular-season games against the ACC. (It’s 29 of 30 total counting the ACC title-game loss to Clemson.)
29 in a row. At no time in recent years has ND had a better team (qualitatively) than Ohio State, yet even Ohio State isn’t winning 29 straight in conference.
ND has a great situation: a “conference” slate that’s good enough for CFP inclusion but not as challenging as what you’d find elsewhere.
Kick ND out of the Big Ten Hockey right now… I’m so sick of the Big Ten bending over for them.
I’m not sure what them being in the B1G for Hockey has to do with any of this. They’re a solid addition to a strong hockey conference, even if their style of play is like watching paint dry.
It has to do with ND wanting Stanford in the ACC to protect their football rivalry, while not committing to the Big Ten as a whole. The sooner other schools stand their ground against ND then they will have no choice but to join a conference and not be in multiple conferences for certain sports…
Most years, ND would want Stanford (and Cal) because they are easy wins. They can have both schools in the ACC. We are talking about athletics.
I'd be fine with FSU and Clemson in the B1G. It would give the B1G a national footprint and the viewership that goes with it along with a wider door to Florida recruiting.
August 9th, 2023 at 10:36 PM ^
I really don't care what Stanford does
August 10th, 2023 at 9:55 AM ^
Yeah, Stanford was only relevant when that young up and comer coach came in and took it to USC. Wonder what happened to that guy. He was a dude.
August 11th, 2023 at 5:05 AM ^
But what does that have do with hockey? The B1G is the only “real” conference that even sponsors hockey. The rest of the conference are hockey only conferences anyway. ND could join the ACC or SEC as a full-member and they’d still need a hockey conference and that conference would likely be the B1G.
ND IS a full member of the ACC in every sport the ACC sponsors with the exception of football. So they’re not “not be in multiple conferences for certain sports…” They’re in the ACC, they’re independent in football, and they find a conference in sports the ACC doesn’t sponsor (guess what, so does Michigan and everyone else that has a sport that isn’t sponsored by their conference)
Kick them out of hockey unless they come into the Big Ten in all other sports. No half-measures.
August 9th, 2023 at 10:59 PM ^
I don't want those narcissistic little bastards in the B1G.
To fucking hell with notre dame - ALWAYS!!!
And within 1 week of ND getting the boot, they have invites to both Hockey East and the NCHC.
I'm not arguing that "B1G hockey needs Notre Dame", because they don't. But kicking Notre Dame out of B1G hockey won't hurt them. The B1G can't use hockey as "leverage" over ND because there is no leverage.
So, let them walk! Either join one conference for everything or be independent in everything… stop bending over for ND.
August 11th, 2023 at 5:07 AM ^
ND did join one conference for everything. They’re an ACC school and they have no conference for football. ACC doesn’t sponsor hockey so they can’t play within their conference. Guess what conference Michigan’s water polo team plays in? Hint: it ain’t the B1G
Notre Dame is treated as if they are still relevant, when in actuality they were a founding organization of a version of college football that no longer exists. Brian Kelly knew this and that's why he left a team that was knocking on the door of the playoffs.
Their last national title was in 1988, and they will never win another one, IMO.
They are a school in a tiny town in rural Indiana. Their deal with Peacock won't be sustainable (the same way the AppleTV deal wasn't with the PAC-12) - I am a subscriber and the content they have on the platform is available for free on YouTube. They will be forced to officially join a conference at some point, and they should do it soon before they lose any clout they still have.
I hope that the B1G acquires Stanford now, if only to disrupt the pathetic attempt at relevance ND is displaying.
I am not all that interested in Stanford or Cal. Let the SEC pickup FSU and Clemson. Those two schools reek of SEC culture. I want North Carolina and Virginia. They are excellent academic schools and are the primary public universities in their states. Then the B1G will be the ultimate national conference with control of most of the west coast, the mid Atlantic seaboard and the entire Great Lakes and Midwest. Fox should 😍
What I really want is to return to the old ten team Big 10. But that ship has long since sailed. In this brave new television controlled college football universe it’s mass that matters.
I think Stanford and Cal would be great fits for the Big.
August 9th, 2023 at 10:40 PM ^
Oh good, an academic school, we can have a quiz bowl.
I agree except for your description of their location. South Bend is a tired old decaying town in the industrial northwest corner of Indiana. Other than the area immediately surrounding the ND campus, most of South Bend has seen better days.
And I hear that South Bend's roads lack racial equality to boot.
Roads? South Bend? Better get in touch with the former mayor. I understand he is in DC now having something to do with Transportation.
They are a school in a tiny town in rural Indiana.
Neither tiny nor rural. South Bend has > 100K people. The "metro" area has 300K+.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Bend-Mishawaka_metropolitan_area
Yep it's a silly argument. South Bend is no more rural or small than dozens of town where large universities in Power 5(4?) conferences are -- State College, Morgantown, College Station, West Lafayette, Lansing, Bloomington, Columbia (Mo.), Oxford, Champaign, Lawrence, Stillwater, ad naseum. Like them or not, Notre Dame is highly relevant, and as others have said, they draw eyeballs nationally. I would argue they draw eyeballs beyond their fans, too.
For all intents and purposes, Notre Dame is in Chicago (3rd biggest market in America).
Trying to marginalize them as "simply being in South Bend" - geographically correct but it's not reality. They are highly, highly relevant and would be a huge get for any conference.
Also, outside of their regional market, they have the Irish American thing . . . which has really always been their driving TV audience.
Catholics are only the largest christian sect in the world and Notre Dame is the premier U for that. Kinda a big deal.
That's what they like to think about themselves, but if they really had the Catholic fan market cornered, their TV ratings would be a lot higher than they are. In 2021 they were the ninth most-watched program (one spot behind Sparty!) and in 2022 they were sixth, aided by a game against OSU.
They're still among the 10 biggest brands, but in the second half of that group now. A generation ago they probably would have been in the first half.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:34 PM ^
"Most watched" is somewhat indicative of brand but I think it's more schedule dependent (as you note with OSU) and ranked match-up dependent.
MSU is a good illustration. Were "highly watched" in 2021 because they were highly ranked and had games against highly ranked opponents. Those games were hyped, they had a Heisman caliber running back, and people tuned in.
MSU fell to 17th in "watched" rankings in 2022. Did their brand suddenly take a hit? Don't think so. Their match ups with Michigan, OSU and Penn State had no national significance. A 2-3 team playing OSU. A 3-4 team playing Michigan. A 5-6 team playing Penn St. That's a yawn for most casual fans outside the footprint.
In 2021, ND's schedule sucked. They played one ranked team during regular season. Their big rivalry game was a yawn as USC was terrible (ended up 4-8). Fla. St. in most years is a big draw - and probably did draw because it was early in 2021 season - but FSU was coming off a 3-6 season COVID year and ended 2021 5-7.
Long story short, I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith into "most watched" in any given year as an indicator of brand strength. The same site does a multi year comparison from 2015 - 2019, and ND ranked 4th over that 5-year period. So you could use the same source to claim they are in the upper group. (Shockingly, Michigan St ranked 15th)
August 10th, 2023 at 12:13 AM ^
Fair enough, but what this really shows is that it's not so much about having a top 5 and second 5 (as I first suggested), but rather, there is the OSU/Bama/Michigan trio, who are always the top three, and then the next tier, which is more variable based on schedule.
ND might be the best overall of the second tier, based on that 2015-19 data - but they are second tier, nonetheless. The viewership gap between us and them is significant. In 2021 and 2022, we had six and seven games, respectively, that drew at least 4 million viewers or more. ND, both years, had two.
August 10th, 2023 at 2:12 AM ^
"Second tier" you made up an arbitrary threshold that the second half of the top 10 is "second tier". There is no way the suits are thinking of ND in that way.
And they are not simply comparing other program's viewership to UM and OSU. If that were the case then they wouldn't have added anyone...not USC, not UCLA and definitely not Rutgers and Maryland.
August 9th, 2023 at 10:30 PM ^
Catholics are only the largest christian sect in the world and Notre Dame is the premier U for that. Kinda a big deal.
I hate this argument (that as a Catholic I'm supposed to support ND) nearly as much as I hate ND itself. And I don't think it's really true anymore; maybe 50 years ago ND had a substantial share of the Catholic market, but not now. Even when I was a kid, I knew way more Catholics that were M fans than ND fans, and I think that has only increased...
Catholics in general. Although I am not so sure of that anymore.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:04 PM ^
And catholic
August 9th, 2023 at 10:41 PM ^
An hour and a half is not chicago.
So to summarize, ND is irrelevant which is why you want the B1G to add a team solely to prevent ND from getting what they want. Actually sounds like they live rent-free in your head.
My distaste for Notre Dame was the driving force behind my becoming a Michigan fan... 35 years ago.
I greatly dislike their athletic programs, but they're plenty relevant.
Notre Dame will do anything but admit they should have joined the Big Ten decades ago. Theyre really gonna try and stay a half member in a half assed version of the ACC. I wish they'd join the Big Ten just to see the games against them, but it's kind of amusing how they work so hard against themselves these days.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:05 PM ^
Never? They were a Manti-Teo girlfriend away from making a game of it.
August 9th, 2023 at 11:35 PM ^
They never were going to win that game. They were as big of a paper tiger as A Sparty when they played Alabama in the CFB playoffs that one year.
(Made some good money against Sparty that Alabama would run it down their throats and park the bus by the half)