It seems to be common knowledge that the brackets are completed and submitted before the Big Ten Tournament Championship game is over. If Wisconsin loses to MSU, I think we're a #1 seed no matter the result. Either way let's win the whole damn thing. Go Blue!
If Wisconsin loses to MSU, are we a #1 seed no matter what?
I think Duke or Virginia could slip in there with the ACC Championship.
I actually think we are better off rooting for Wisconsin because their stat profile is better than MSU and will pay off more.
This. We have a much better shot if we beat Wisconsin ourselves. We've already beaten MSU twice, besides.
the melt down for commentators everywhere is going to be unreal....
Unless the ACC champ sneaks in, but I think it will be us by this much
Don't count out Dook or even Nova from that discussion. Potentially even UVA
Nova shouldn't get a 2 seed, let alone a 1. They haven't played anybody and lost the first game of their conference tourney. I think Michigan is a 2 lock, and I'm not concerned if they don't get a 1.
I doubt it...I think we would need to win the Big Ten regardless to even think about #1. A few other things probably need to happen too.
What "few other things" would need to happen in your mind?
I think we'd still need to win. I'm not sure an 8-loss team has ever been a #1 seed.
but people had Kansas as the last 1 yesterday as an 8 loss team. We would have a top 5 SOS, with a .667 wp vs top 50 team (10-5).
If Duke wins their tourney they will get the 1 seed if we lose
Duke or Virginia have a strong shot at the 1 even if we win. That last one seed is really up for grabs between M, UVA, Duke, and Wisconsin. If Duke and Wisonsin end up in their respective conference finals the selection between the Big and ACC tourney champ will come down to splitting hairs.
UVA is the last other contender playing, I think. A lot of people have Duke pretty low on the seed lines. Ideally NC State wins the ACC though.
If Wisconsin wins today, I would imagine the winner tomorrow is the #1 in the East and the loser is the Midwest #2. That's easy enough to flip last minute, you just keep Big Ten teams out of the 8/9 and 7/10 games in those regions, respectively.
Actually we need to BEAT Wisconsin to have a shot at the #1 seed. I still think it's a very longshot no matter what but to have a chance we need to beat the hightest ranked teams we can.
I think it's a win-win for Michigan. An earlier than Michigan exit to the tournament puts Wisconsin behind us. A victory over Wisconsin tomorrow puts us ahead of them since they are a bubble one-seed just like Michigan is. So, I think I will just want to sit, relax, and hope for a good game with MSU and Wisconsin since, to me, either outcome is good for Michigan.
champ. If it is Duke/Virginia, then probably not. If it is NC State, maybe. But then Villanova is back in play.
Nova has a garbage performance record vs us, RPI, SOS and wins vs top 25/50. I would be shocked to see the jump us unless they win out.
Teams that give up nearly 100pts in a loss should never be in the running for #1 seeds. Double that for teams that gave up nearly 100pts twice in losses.
Virginia will not get a #1 seed
The last #1 will be the perpetually overseeded Duke. Duke will exit in a Sweet 16 game.
I think most of you missed the premise of this post. The results of the Big Ten Championship game don't affect the bracket, because the picks are finalized before it ends. So "we need to win tomorrow" is not a valid response.
You are correct.
Except that's not true. The committee does NOT have both Michigan & Wisconsin slotted already and the result of the game tomorrow will influence where they are placed.
Yes, it is. Try and follow: the big ten championship game finishes too late to be considered by the committee. The game tips off 2.5 hours before the CBS selection show.
Members on and be said this year that they are taking the results into consideration this year more than previous years because of how close teams are.
He did not specifically call out the championship game however.
They can reach agreement based on the outcome of the game. They will have two Wisconsin/Michigan spots depending on the winner.
Bracket Matrix now has Wisconsin as a #1 seed. Villanova and Kansas are still ahead of Michigan but Michigan is at 2.06 while Kansas is 2.04. Obviously a Michigan Victory should help against both Villanova and Kansas.
From what I understand the bracket is basically complete tonight from what I remeber from past years. so the actual game tommrow dowsnt mean much as far as the ncaa tournament goes. So we want wincy to lose tonight
but they do they make more then 1 bracket based on the scenario's. So if Wisconsin wins today, then they will have atleast 2 brackets with UM has a 1 and Wisconsin as the 2, or the other way around. So while all the at-large teams are in today (unless someone steals a bid tommorow) there are still more then 1 bracket tonight.
Just to reiterate: we ABSOLUTELY want MSU to win.
Tomorrow's result isn't considered by the committee, so if Wisconsin wins, they'll almost certainly stay ahead of us regardless of what happens tomorrow.
This isn't correct. The commitee will have contigency brackets in place based on all possible outcomes of tomorrows games. Whether we win or lose is absolutely important tomorrow.
Good lord - no. Still, no. The game tips off less than 3 hours before CBS announces the brackets live on TV. It is what it is. Have you seriously never heard this before? I thought it was common knowledge.
You're wrong and that's alright, I'll even treat you with minimum snark about it. A favor it doesn't seem likely I'll have returned to me. Here's some reading for you:
This passage may be of particular interest:
"Advancements in the technology the committee uses makes planning for contingencies much easier than it used to be. If the ACC (possibly Duke and/or North Carolina pushing for a 1-seed) or (especially) the later Big Ten final (where Michigan State and/or Ohio State could also be seeking a 1-seed) have a matchup in place by Saturday night that could impact the overall seeds, the committee would have multiple contingency brackets in place, and then use the one that's applicable based on Sunday's results."
the only thing in your post that actually suports him is that it specifically lists MSU and OSU. My take on that is that If Michigan or Wisconsin were in the BTT title game a #1 seed is very likely.
Now. I can't say that this was an intended inferential statement, but I could definitely see people reading that in it.
This was in effect last year also.
Will the Sunday conference tournament finals matter? There's a general perception that the major-conference tournament finals that land on Selection Sunday are discounted (or ignored completely). A recent example comes from last year, when Kentucky beat Florida in the SEC title game but stayed a 4-seed in my bracket (and the committee's, as well) while Florida remained a 2 in both. A plausible explanation is that Kentucky was moved up in the S-curve and Florida was moved down based on that result, but neither moved enough to change their nominal seed. Whether you agree with that seed determination based on an analysis of the teams' entire 30-plus game track records is different from the result being ignored. Advancements in the technology the committee uses makes planning for contingencies much easier than it used to be. If the ACC (possibly Duke and/or North Carolina pushing for a 1-seed) or (especially) the later Big Ten final (where Michigan State and/or Ohio State could also be seeking a 1-seed) have a matchup in place by Saturday night that could impact the overall seeds, the committee would have multiple contingency brackets in place, and then use the one that's applicable based on Sunday's results. Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/andy_glockner/02/24/Bracke...
You don't think they prepare more than one bracket based on the possible results of Sunday? CBS gets the bracket 30 minutes before the show.
Unfortunately, you are producing Aaron Craft-like results in this thread.
The Badgers defeated Minnesota in a quarterfinal, rallied to beat Michigan State in a semifinal, and defeated Illinois in the final. However, because the game was played too late to be taken under consideration by the NCAA Tournament selection committee, the Badgers received a #6 seed.
Ooh, Wikipedia. What an authority.
Citing a decade old result, no less
Considering that someone has produced a much more recent quote that says the opposite; and that the quote specifically talks about the technological advances NOW available to the committee, I'm inclined to believe that they can also plan for this exact scenario. After all your snarky responses, I found it disappointing that your proof source is this old quote.
Don't confuse people by using logic and good judgement
Yeah and everything in the world has remained the same since 2004 which is the year this refers to.
Please! Just admit you are wrong.
according to Greg Shaheen, there are usually 6 contingency brackets at the end of Saturday night (6 games on Sunday). So, the notion that Sunday doesnt matter is false.
The Big Ten final is the very last game. The timing means it usually can't be considered while they rush to figure everything else out, if it even finishes before the brackets are sent in,
U-GH-L-Y you ain't got no alibi you UGH-LY, yeah you ugh-ly.
M-AH-M-A, how do you think you got that way, yo MAH-MA, yeah, yo mahma.
Can't wait to hear brackets tomorrow. For now, I'm in one of those places where I'm going to the beach. Have fun everyone.
It'd be particularly easy just to flip UM/Wisc if that's the matchup. Winner get's the #1 in the East, loser gets #2 in the Midwest.
You are correct sir.
Pizzahaus and the OP, Where are you getting your information? And why do you think this is common knowledge? You really think Sunday's games have no meaning? Some years the Sunday games may not be as important and the brackets are more or less set in place but this year there is quite a bit riding on tomorrow's games.
No one ever said Sunday's games have no meaning. We said there is only one game that has little to no meaning because it is played so late. Half of you completely changed the argument to if Wisconsin wins today. Clearly, if Wisconsin wins then they will hold out to see the winner between Michigan and Wisconin. But, if they lose they will absolutely have Wisconsin slotted and most likely know where Michigan will be as well.
Just win and let the rest take care of itself. Either way, we're a 2 seed at worst.
...that #1 seed!
Personally I think it would be better the be the #2 seed in the Midwest, rather than the #1 in either the East or West.
Arizona's the one in the West. That's been done for like a month.
We'd be in the East. MSG is a semi-home site for us. The #2 would probably be Villanova. The #3 would probably be Virginia, which is like platonic ideal Ohio State (OSU + a consistent scorer), who we just played today and beat with Scott having his out of body experience. Four I'm seeing there is Cinci, who matches up great for us. I want the East so bad. Especially if Iowa State is sent to the Midwest. DO NOT WANT
I don't care where we get seeded, I want the chance to beat staee for a third time this year.
Let's just take care of business and smash whoever we play tomorrow
Read my diary peeps! BTN Selection Committe Show
I'm Kidding but the committee will not have the bracket done before the end of the games tomorrow. At times I'm sure they've been pretty complete in the past but tomorrow's games have quite a bit riding on them; the committee knows this and will plan accordingly.
And come back to Indy!
Cart before the horse and all that. Just Win the Game!
Villanova takes it if MSU wins the BTT. If either Michigan or Wisconsin wins, that team will get the last 1 spot. And don't look now but Dook is in a dogfight with the wolfpack
Should be a felony
Michigan/Wisconsin and Duke/UVA would be taken over Nova at this point. I dont see any logic that would suggest otherwise.
IMO, the result of our game is too late to matter for the selection show. That being said we could still be the first 2-seed if Duke/UVA meet up tomorrow, as either would have a strong case for a 1-seed.
I don't think Michigan is getting a one seed at all, I'm more interested in which 1 seed Michigan will have in their bracket.
Here. Replace "often" with "just about always," though.
"Even getting the Badgers in the final might not matter, as it could be too late in the day for the committee. It’s the last game before the bracket is put in place and, often, there are too many other moving parts (sites, conference matchups, potential rematches) to consider for the committee to wait for that result.
they probably have all the at-large teams in by now except for 1 or 2. So basically they have the next 6 hours to make their multiple brackets. They also have another 8 hours tomorrow. Maybe in a year like last year when the Championship game didnt matter as much, but this year there is a 1 seed on the line (like 2012), I'm sure they will pay attention.
Obviously you have been given wrong information. Just because the B1G 10 Championship game starts 2.5 hours before CBS's show doesnt mean the committee doesnt conscidere it. They just make more than 1 bracket based on different results. After all, 1 team has to win and 1 team has to lose.
Weirdest spelling of 'consider' ever...
It's all good. Just being an ass.
Oh my dear god.
There's a good chance that the game finishes after the brackets are finalized, which means it literally cannot be considered. This happens. Even if not, there's so many things to shuffle that it usually doesn't factor. They repeat this on essentially every broadcast of the Big Ten final game. It's not as easy as "contingency brackets!!!!!!!111!1"
It's one thing to be completely wrong, as you are. It's another to show so mug contempt toward those who aren't wrong... And without producing any evidence in your favor.
Might want to apologize and moderate the tone slightly. Just a suggestion.
You're incredibly annoying. And weirdly paternalistic.
The Badgers defeated Minnesota in a quarterfinal, rallied to beat Michigan State in a semifinal, and defeated Illinois in the final. However, because the game was played too late to be taken under consideration by theNCAA Tournament selection committee, the Badgers received a #6 seed.
I'm attempting to be polite. Because you look incredibly thick-headed in this thread.
doesn't make it more relevant.
Dave Revsine agreed with Pizza Haus and said there are instances where the B1G championship game is not factored into seeding. No link but he said this on the BTN finale yesterday.
So you are saying the NCAA and people who have worked on the brackets for years know less then couple people calling a game?
I don't think anything is set in stone yet. Even if we win out we could get a #2. A Wisconsin win over moo makes it easier for them to hold a #1 and #2 and put the B1G tourney champ in the #1 with the runner up as #2. If we lose we're not a #1.
every time the announcers mentions sparty's injuries. I am not going to be able to walk by the under 12 timeout
There's no upside to playing MSU.
If we win, well, we should have - we are the top seed.
If we lose, all the "see look at us healthy" talk starts again... And we get to listen to how they won the Big Ten (tournament will conveniently be forgotten).
I can seriously keep doing this all day, people.
Wikipedia: The Badgers defeated Minnesota in a quarterfinal, rallied to beat Michigan State in a semifinal, and defeated Illinois in the final. However, because the game was played too late to be taken under consideration by the NCAA Tournament selection committee, the Badgers received a #6 seed.
I can too. Refer to my post in response to you on page one. The wikipedia article you are referencing is from a game played in 2008. The methods have changed, Sunday is taken into account now.
Holy shit, really? I never thought to consult Wikipedia. It's the new absolute truth! That guy on CBS today from the selection committee should go check that out. He was soooo wrong.
do you think they are the 1 seed?
The argument was if Wisconsin LOST. If they win then they will hold the final #1 for the winner of the Big Ten Tournament.
This is a bit revisionist. Your position was that the brackets were submitted before the B1G championship game ends and so would not be taken into consideration. I agree with your premise that, with Wisconsin losing, it may not matter too much anymore.
my iPad decided it was important for me to reply twice.
Some committee member was interviewed and said they prepare multiple brackets prior to the late Sunday games with all possible outcomes considered. They won't have to change anything because the work will already be done. Sunday's game matters for Michigan's seeding.
Here's a little Wikipedia for you:
"While the selection process starts before the seeding process, the two often overlap; with conference tournaments not finishing until Selection Sunday itself, and only one hour between the end of the last game (usually the Big Ten Tournament championship game) before the brackets are officially unveiled, the committee cannot wait until after all the games are played to start determining the seeds. While nothing is set in stone until after all the games are played and the brackets are established, the committee may have a good idea.."
Now, if you are arguing the game is so late they MIGHT NOT consider it, that's different than the game is so late THEY CAN'T consider it. They may decide that Michigan is a #1 win or lose since the game is so late, but they likely won't.
If the game goes to quadruple overtime, and say Northwestern was in the championship game, they would officially have to wait to make their selection final regardless of the show's airing time.
This is from Wikapedia's section on the selection process. I have no idea where you got your information.
The selection committee's work to seed the teams is just as vital as their work to select the at-large teams. While the selection process starts before the seeding process, the two often overlap; with conference tournaments not finishing until Selection Sunday itself, and only one hour between the end of the last game (usually the Big Ten Tournament championship game) before the brackets are officially unveiled, the committee cannot wait until after all the games are played to start determining the seeds. While nothing is set in stone until after all the games are played and the brackets are established, the committee may have a good idea of where a team is and where they could rise or fall depending on their showing in the later stages of their conference tournament.
Nothing is for sure. As of this point, Lunardi has Michigan in as the #1 seed, but don't take it for granted. Go out there, show you deserve that #1 seed, and fucking run Wisconsin or Michigan State out of the building tomorrow. Put an exclamation point on the season going into the tournament.
Good news boys! According to ESPN's Joe Lanarrdi or whatever his nam is lol. We have now passed Nova for a #1 SEED!!!!!!
LAST MINUTE: One possible complication is the Sunday finish by some of the major conferences. If a team that can only get in the field by winning the championship game does so, the committee must wait and see who would be the last at-large team that would be out. The title game could also affect seeding so there might be a few scenarios laid out and ready to go. The conferences are: Atlantic Coast Conference, Atlantic 10, Big Ten, Southeastern Conference and Sun Belt.
Illogical. Modern news stories all must bow to the authority that is a Wikipedia page from the 2008 tournament.
PizzaHaus - How late is too late to call and order one of your Late Night specials?
I'd like the burger with a peanut butter shake, please.
I don't really see how Dook or UVA could jump us, assuming we win the BTT. Dook is a half seed behind us in bracketmatrix and UVA almost 3/4 of a seed behind. If we win out, we will have beaten higher seeded competition.
Is there really a difference between us being the last 1 seed and the first two seed beyond our sweet 16 matchup?
No. But wouldn't you prefer that sweet 16 matchup to be better?
Some point out that a #1 has never lost their opening game, which can't be said for the #2.
Yes. I can't remember the exact stats but the % of 1 seeds going to the final 4 over the 2s 3s and 4s is a big difference
Things are looking even better.
Didn't indiana (B1G champs) not even appear in the BTT final last year and they received a 1 seed?
This has me hoping that the lunardi-ism of us being a #1 no matter what is correct.